Meh, I dont care anymore. Charlie, buy it dont buy it.... This started out as a good thread then quickly degenerated. 3700 lbs to 4100 lbs Ill decide for myself when and if the time comes. Another this pig wont fly thread isnt going to decide for me. Was hoping yad go for it Charlie as your as passioinate as myself and others here but if not youve got some nice ones anyway. Nothing wrong with that. Im still hoping to work one out myself. I dont like the 3rd Gen cars much. The nose is too long, overhang too much, the cars are too square and to me they just look too cheap and bland. I say that then I see one like Charlies stunning beautiful black 3rd gen and I think WOW! Theres another 3rd Gen that a female racer who was a regular when I worked at MIR way back that was REALLY nice. It was an 11 sec car. Still not for me, but thats fine and I respect the cars and people who are passionate about them... The 5th gens even got some 3rd gen styling I wasnt happy about at frist but Im growing to really like. For instance the angle of the grille opening.

Had the car been pitched on Alpha and managed to make it through before the polititians struck, guess what. The possiblity wed be be looking at Camaro being the only car on a platform its supposed to share are also possible. Had Alpha been rolled out and camaro didnt make it before the stone wall came down its also possible it wouldnt make producition.

 

hmmmmm........

well.........

I'm not sure which has been debated more:

1. -- Weight
2. -- SS versus Z28 --whoops-- Z/28....(Sorry!)


See -- here's the problem.

One -- we have to be able to sell the car in volume -- so that we make at least a few dollars on it.

Now -- to sell it in volume, we have to look at the wants and needs of who's gonna buy the car.

There are those who want to be able to order the car without a radio and with crank windows. I'd guess that number to be quite small.......weight savings? Negligible -- cost to do so? Stupid money.

There are those who want to be able to insure the car. That means 5 star crash ratings -- and that also means a host of airbags -- and airbags mean extra weight. --

There are those who constantly complain about brakes and rear axles.......brakes and heavier axles cost weight -- and money.

There are those who want a quiet ride -- meaning more insulation and isolation mechanisms........

There are those who want a substantial feel to the sheet metal. (you don't want hood flutter at 70-80mph..........)

There are those who want to be able to carry an occasional two people in the back seat now and then.......

There are those who want enough driver and front passenger room to accomodate someone 6' 8'' or above........

There are those who want comfortable seats for long distance comfort......

There are those who want great tactile feel to instruments and controls.......

There are those who feel a 'live axle' is too primitive for a car of this caliber in the new century.......

The list goes on and on.

The team must wade thru all of these wants and needs and make decisions.

Dispite what some say, there was not a real choice in which architectures to use -- yes, many have been looked at -- but this particular Zeta -- and it's different than G8 Zeta -- serves a great purpose.

Yes, it's OK to question. I just can't understand why a few people have written off the car even before they've driven it.

It comes back to practicality and affordability.

....and -- if you ignore any of the above -- you compromise on how many people the car will appeal to......

-- the sad reality for a few of you is that a 3,300 pound Camaro isn't in their wants or needs. If it were doable at a reasonable price point, don't you think we'd do it? REALLY????? Just because someone wants a 3,300 pound Camaro doesn't mean they're wrong -- and unfortunately they may never like this Camaro. (I tend to think they're going to be pleasantly surprised...)

I do believe that the new Camaro --(and I'm not alone here -- ) will surprise and delight. Further, the car feels much lighter than it is.

OK to question -- but how 'bout we calm down -- and drive the car first?

And to the point of people having to answer to the Board of Directors -- Boy Howdy.......everyone does today........and that's what I mean about 'having a stake' in the process. Some of us do - some of us don't. Those who do know the cost of getting it wrong.

 

Thank you.

As long as the price is reasonable, the performance issues are negligible to me. There are trade-offs between performance and comfort / price / etc. I consider myself an enthusiast (my wife tells me I'm obsessed ), but I'm also a realist. If I wanted the weight and performance of a Corvette, I'd buy a Corvette.....but not at the price I can buy a Camaro for. A Camaro with the same properties would cost just as much.

We've seen the Brembo calipers, heard the car on the track in Germany, heard the positive feedback from the focus group, and seen some early aftermarket interest. Add this to the statements made about being competitive with the Mustang and, at this point, I'm still confident that GM will produce a fairly powerful, more than decent handling vehicle at a competitive price.

Until more details are released, that's all I can go by. We'll see in a few months.

 

I think so

 

It's a tough job I'm sure, Scott. And I happen to know that alot of fine people have worked on it. I am also pretty positive that it'll be a great car. A great "RWD Chevy Coupe", which will make many buyers very happy.

As you know, I was hoping for something different.

See you at Indy.

 

Not to beat a dead horse because weight and price is not out yet. Like others have said it will be what it will be. After doing a little soul searching my dollar is going to the best bang for the buck I perceive. That will be either a Mustang or Camaro and Im holding out for the 5.0 to see what it offers. I think Ford may just trim some weight but only time will tell. If they do it would be a wonderful thing.

I can appreciate all of the compromises that have to be made. You can screw up a Taurus or Impala and its no big deal. Screw up a Camaro or Mustang and people will be screaming at the top of their lungs for years on end.

 

I picked costs, not much point in getting excited over a sub 3500 lbs Camaro that you'd need to finance for 7+ years or drool over as a golden watch for yourself when you retire.

Then again this might all be moot as inflation drives the cost of cars higher, at what point do you decide its no longer feasible to make a cheap V8 car and decide the car might be better positioned as a premium offering where you can have your cake and eat it too?

 

More like 64 to 35 now.. It would sure be a killing in any kind of election.

Nissan's blowing smoke... and turning up the boost on all their cleverly PR'd track appearances of GT-R's. Not even almighty Nissan is above the laws of physics.

 

I don't think so. Alpha, once it's developed, will have a future. Zeta's future appears quite limited, if not completely dim.

To those who say that Zeta was an enabler for this Camaro, I don't disagree. It was the one available architecture which kept the corporate politicians and accountants at bay.

I still think that things would have gone down differently, had afew people at GM known that this car would ultimately come in this much over it's weight target.

 

I dont know. Alpha seems like just an idea at this stage where as Zeta is next generation of an existing platform like the last Commodore UTE or GTO were on. Maybe Im wrong but it seems. Zeta shortened the time to market. Alpha I dont think would be ready for a while and when it is, if swapping Platforms at that time seems like a good idea then great. Incedently the Alpha Torano seems like a better looking 1 series rather than a 3 series sized car. I really like the 3 series size and look.

could be, but may have pushed back the release date and killed it alltogether.

 

Yeah buddy of mine did a $1000 brake job on an M3...I nearly fell off my chair when he told me.

 

Cost...particularly CAD vs USD pricing...see my other rants.

 

Weight by and far. I already have a GT for a daily driver (which I have no plans on parting with). Currently I'm looking at a future car (either another stang or the camaro) to purchase with the sole purpose of making a just barely street legal autocross canyon carver (If I had the money to buy a truck and trailer I wouldn't hesitate to build a completely street illegal racer ala Ford Mustang Challenger series). So far Camaro wins on IRS, and the new Stang wins on weight (if the rumors pan out). I'm in no rush to buy anything though, I'll wait til 2011 one way or another and make my decision.

Personally however, I do hope the Camaro is the better of two options not so much from any fanboy love I harbor (I have non, never been a car guy until I got my GT and quite frankly I find the 4gens ugly as sin) or animosity geared towards Ford but simply because I already own a Mustang. Would like to deck out my driveway with something different.

 

The Zeta Camaro/Chevy Coupe programs were initiated, IIRC, in 2004. And we're still 8 months out from a purchaseable car. Zeta also apparently cost $1.2 billion to develop according to crYnOid on a different post. I believe that's not even including the bill for the Camaro and Zeta2 re-do, which it seems Camaro will end up financing singlehandedly.

Lots of money and lots of time. And the words "shortened time to market", should only be used tongue in cheek here.

 

Cost...and the price of gas.

C'mon electric!