Exactly!!

Removing oxidation = removing paint and/or clearcoat to restore a shine. Period. A nonabrasive product will NEVER restore a damaged finish. I could honestly care less how F113 works, because I sure as hell wouldn't want/need to remove micro layers of clear or paint to make my car look fancy. Hey, it's your cars though, makes no difference to me...

But, if I were actually wanting a cleaner wax product to use on a beater or paint that needs a quick sprucing up, I "might" consider it, but I doubt it considering who markets this particular product. What gets me is that it's $20 a bottle! Hahahaha! Hell I could buy 4 bottles of Meguiar's or Mother's C/W for the same price and get the same results...

Your car, your money...shop wisely...



------------------
*Mike's 1992 Camaro RS 25th Anniv.*
Dark Red Metallic (ext.) / Flame Red (int.)
Flowmaster Crossflow, K&N, 20% 3M Panther Black Tint
JL Audio 3 10", PPI PC2100, Kenwood eXcelon KRC-953H/U, Kenwood / Pioneer speakers
Show Car Shine by ZAINO! - Special Thanks to Sal Z!

[This message has been edited by MikeLS (edited July 20, 2002).]

 

Well, here's yet another reason I'd never ever buy F113. Here's a copy of an email Mr. Prisco just sent me:

So, here's what I think big shot. I don't give a flying **** how many "new converts" you have. I do kinda feel sorry for those people, but other than that I could care less. Get it? I don't sit at my monitor just waiting to bash F113. I don't get my feathers ruffled if someone chooses it over Zaino or any other product, unlike your huge ego may suggest. And, if you think telling truths about a product gives Zaino or whatever a bad name, GROW UP! I'm not here to push any agenda, but I will speak the truth. I'm entitled to my opinion like anyone else, so move along, big shot. You are not worth my time, and I'm not worth yours...so find someone else to harass...

Are we clear that I could care less about F113? I thought so...

And, answer me this, if F113 is sooo great, what's in it that make's it worth $20 a pop. As far as I know, it's loaded with the BAD kind of silicones with abrasives and plain ole carnauba, which has zero lasting power. $20 for a bottle of nice shiny silicone, no thanks... Like I said, Meguiar's or Mother's would be much safer (for paint) and econimical for the money. Also, I'm not in the market for a lazy man's one step CLEANER WAX. By nature, a C/W is NOT an enthusiasts product, so why the hell do I or should I care? If you want another opinion, if I DID actually need a cleaner wax type product, I'd choose Klasse All-In-One, or the mentioned Meguiar's or Mother's alternatives. At least I know I'd be buying from people with class, and let the products speak for themselves, without the representatives harassing people to drum up business. LAME! Very LAME!


Mike

------------------
*Mike's 1992 Camaro RS 25th Anniv.*
Dark Red Metallic (ext.) / Flame Red (int.)
Flowmaster Crossflow, K&N, 20% 3M Panther Black Tint
JL Audio 3 10", PPI PC2100, Kenwood eXcelon KRC-953H/U, Kenwood / Pioneer speakers
Show Car Shine by ZAINO! - Special Thanks to Sal Z!



[This message has been edited by MikeLS (edited July 21, 2002).]

 

http://www.gliptone.com/descr_pgs/gt0616.htm

I actually thought the results I got when I used to use Gliptone Pro Buff were the same as when I recently used Formula 113.

Lets Compare their website descriptions:

Gliptone Pro Buff-
Safe for all paint finishes
Cleans and waxes in one step
For hand and machine use
Removes fine scratches,Removes oxidation
Easy to apply, easy to remove.
Contains #1 Brazilian Carnauba wax for
premium shine and durability.


Formula 113
Wipes on and off easily. Can be applied
in direct sunlight.
Removes heavy to light oxidation, fast
and easy
Removes Swirl Marks, Scratches, Old Wax
Build-Up, Dead Paint, Blemishes, Bird
Droppings, Bugs, and Tar.
Safe for all finishes and Clear Coats
For hand or machine use.
(Not listed on the website but the F113
container states that it contains #1
Brazilian Carnauba wax

The Formula 113 website goes into a lot more description and hype than does Gliptone but the products do sound very similar.

Gliptone Pro Buff 16 ounces for $9.00
vs
Formula 113 12 ounces ranging from $15.00 - $20.00
Maybe if I have the energy, desire and beater vehicle for testing purposes I will compare the two products head to head.

 

I used the formula 113/beadx a couple of months ago and thought it worked great.( 1st time I ever waxed anything)
Easy to apply, great shine, did everything they advertised it to do.
Not having anything to compare it to, I went out and bought some Meguires cleaner wax and detailer spray.
It worked exactly the same. Just as easy to apply, same shine, they both lasted about 3-4 weeks.
The only difference was the formula 113 cost $20 + shipping, and took 2 weeks to get and the meguires cost $5, and I can get it at autozone.
Now I use the Meguires 3-step gold class on my cars, and thier cleaner wax on a car if I just want it to look good to sell.

------------------
'85 Iroc 355TPI/auto
Lots of work.

 

I have used both Zaino and F113. I personally like the 113 better than the Zaino. I have used it on both a clear-coated car and a non-clear car. I had no discoloration on the non clear cars towel at all!

For all you guys crying abrasive....The claybar that everyone uses claims to be non abrasive, but it "cleans" the surface. 113 advertises that it contains no abrasives and "cleans" the surface. Why is it that one product can clean and not be abrasive and another product can't?

Also for all the claybar users.. I too use it, but it is an abraive..."Many clay products claim to contain no abrasives. This is stretching the truth. The reason manufacturers claim their clay doesn't contain abrasives is because the public thinks the word "abrasive" refers only to aggressive, paint removing materials. Fact is, the abrasives in most automotive clay products are so fine that you will not see any reduction in paint gloss. After several uses, paint luster may even improve."

------------------
87 IROC 350 with 8300 miles.
93 Indy Pace Car #494
86 Olds Cutlass 442 (4 Sale)
My Cars
Northstar Camaro Club Of Minnesota

[This message has been edited by scottmoyer (edited July 23, 2002).]

 

Not one time after claying a car have I ever seen any color come off. I cant say the same for F113. Yes, I have used it. It did a great job on an old oxidized car. Would I ever use it on my car? Hell no. From my experience, F113 is for bringing cars back from the dead, not for everyday use.

------------------
Chris™
<A HREF="http://www2.gvsu.edu/~stigersc/car.html" TARGET=_blank>'97 Cutty - "Pull Me Over" Red & "Gimme a ticket" Yellow
</A>

The Peter Potter Philanthropy Party Project posts perfect prose again!!

 

I disagree, most clays are completely nonabrasive. Clay does not function by "abrading" the surface to smooth the paint. Look up the word abrasive and it refers to REMOVING paint or clear coat to accomplish results. Clay, being the sticky substance that it is, literally PULLS out the embedded particulates, but it will never remove a layer of clear coat or paint from the car. Also, high quality clay, like Zaino Z18, is completely synthetic, thus there is nothing in the clay itself that could possibly abrade the surface. If clay WERE abrasive, it would remove the Zaino on the car when I use it. This is NOT the case. Clay will not remove Zaino, but abrasive polishes and paint cleaners WILL. So, IMHO, it's completely inaccurate to compare an abrasive polish or wax to a clay bar. The are nothing alike...

BTW, the only truly abrasive clay bar I know of is the red Clay Magic bar.



------------------
*Mike's 1992 Camaro RS 25th Anniv.*
Dark Red Metallic (ext.) / Flame Red (int.)
Flowmaster Crossflow, K&N, 20% 3M Panther Black Tint
JL Audio 3 10", PPI PC2100, Kenwood eXcelon KRC-953H/U, Kenwood / Pioneer speakers
Show Car Shine by ZAINO! - Special Thanks to Sal Z!

[This message has been edited by MikeLS (edited July 23, 2002).]

 

Ok, the formula113 website doesn't say anything about this, but Michael Prisco states that the product is non-abrasive. My question is how a clay bar can be accepted as "non-abrasive", but this wax can't be. They are both advertised as "non-abrasive"

------------------
87 IROC 350 with 8300 miles.
93 Indy Pace Car #494
86 Olds Cutlass 442 (4 Sale)
My Cars
Northstar Camaro Club Of Minnesota

 

last I checked their webpage said "No harsh abrasives", nothing about "No abrasives".

------------------
Kevin Villier, 2002 SS #186 - 6M with Hurst and "short-stick", TT, navy blue, chrome SS wheels, Bilstein suspension, SS grill, STB, SLP loudmouth, Direct-Flo lid with Holley filter and Mallory polished MAF ends.

Louisville, KY

 

This is taken DIRECTLY from the F113 website:

Be sure to read the last statement carefully, "Contains no HARSH abrasives." Well, common sense says, remove the words "no harsh" and it will say "contains abrasives." There are varying levels of abrasives, so ok fine, it may not contain a heavy harsh abrasive like a heavy cut compound, but read between the lines, and you will see it still contains ABRASIVES, heavy or not. If they aren't harsh, then they must be "medium or light" abrasives right? Of course...

Also, read the first few lines of his advertising. REMOVES oxidation, how? REMOVES swril marks, how? REMOVES dead paint, blemishes, etc, how? Your answer: WITH ABRASIVES, how else!!? It's common sense.... The ONLY way to remove such things is with the use of abrasives, period. If MP says it's nonabrasive, then yeah, I'd say he's BSing you. It's not false advertisement though, because his website clearly states that it CONTAINS ABRASIVES, even if they aren't "harsh". Basically, he says one thing on his site and spouts another in person...what a winner....

While we're all on the subject of MP and F113, why is it that he is banned from nearly every detailing message board out there?? Is it because of Zaino? I don't think so...Zaino has nothing to do with it. It's because of his poor sleazy attitude, low class selling tactics (SPAM), threats, pure BS, posting unappropriate links, bashing, etc etc... Why the hell anyone buy from such a loser is beyond me... Can you imagine the execs at Meguiar's, Mother's, Blitz, ZAINO, Pinnacle or most any other company conducting themselves in this manner??? They don't because they have something called CLASS, respect, and most importantly they let the products do the talking...

------------------
*Mike's 1992 Camaro RS 25th Anniv.*
Dark Red Metallic (ext.) / Flame Red (int.)
Flowmaster Crossflow, K&N, 20% 3M Panther Black Tint
JL Audio 3 10", PPI PC2100, Kenwood eXcelon KRC-953H/U, Kenwood / Pioneer speakers
Show Car Shine by ZAINO! - Special Thanks to Sal Z!



[This message has been edited by MikeLS (edited July 25, 2002).]