Ahh. Geniune compliment intended. Howabout "Thought provoking comments, Sandeep".

 

Before the Golf war, this is before the US ruined Iraq, I remember in Cuba how some of the Iraqis and Russian's that were working there were saying its the best place, Saddam fed the whole nation, gave everyone good jobs, fed everyone, made sure everyone was happy, you went to work at 9am, you finishd work by 1pm, then go back at 6pm for about 1 hour. Saddam wanted to make sure his people had good jobs. This I remember hearing and witnessing myself, so I'll never forget. So to answer Streamline's question, yeah it was better before the US and yeah things were good before.

 

Just so long as you weren't a Kurd or you had the audacity to say "...is there another way of doing this? Is it possable for us to have this wealth, to enjoy these wonderful conditions and still have the power to elect our leaders?".

Then you ran the risk of being gassed, tortured and of course, murdered. At that point, having a job was not the highest of priorities.

Of course, for many, I'm sure the former regime WAS a good thing. So was it for the supporters of Stalin and Hitler.

Do you know this famous quote, "First they came for the Communist's, but I didn't say anything as I wasn't a Communist. Then they came for the union members, but I said nothing as I was not a union member. Next they came for the Jews, and then the Catholics but I did nothing, as I was neither. Then they came for me, and there was no one left to say anything to save me".

 

oh man the US screwed things up, Saddam was a loving and caring leader who only thought of his people before the US came in, gimme a f**king break
i think i understand the hours of work also gas people from 9am-1pm, then come back at 6pm to make sure they were all dead

good post shawn

 

Ohh please, the statement you make Shawn can be applied to any country, what Saddam did was his problem, the US has its own crime too you know? or dont you? Like Sandeep said, noone looks at their home crime when it comes to war on others, we just look at their local crimes and use that to exploit the media. Why is it soooo funny? You guys don't know but Russia killed, slottered, and did way worse things to Chechnia then Saddam, I don't see anyone attacking them, you know why? Cuz why, and we'll die if we try to do anything about it. Everyone also said the exact same Bull$hit you are saying now about the communists, Ohh they are such a threat, there is no freedom, BULL ****ING $HIT! Russians lived 10000000000 times better durring communism, now its nothing but crime, the only reason the country is still holding up is because everything they do is criminal, they cheat on every political matter and that is ok? The country off way worse because America got involved with democracy, I have relatives in there that were big people in the days like teachers and scientiests, and now are nothing thanx to America, they destroyed communism. I lived in Russia when it was communism, Russia had healthcare, had guarranteed jobs, had much higher education then the west, had job security like unimployment issurance. The only reason the west has all this is because they looked to Russia and communism and tried to addapt the same concepts and more to look them selves look better. Now that mother russia isn't soviet union (communism) all of the sudden the west is falling apart, cuts here and there, cuz there is no more competition.

I love Canada and America, but the attitude and false accusations about the east has to stop!

You know what, after all this I think I'm just mad, mad that people are dying, I don't like to see people die, and America is killing people for no reason. What happened on 9/11 only happened because America was sticking their noses into other nation's disputes choosing sides. I say stop killing, concentrate on cooperation, and noone will touch you. Why is Canada so safe? Because we rock, we are much better off because we are kind and don't kill or judge any nation.

 

So if communism is so great / viable why did it fail? Communism will ALWAYS corrupt the efficient use of resources. Like it or not, the reality is that the free market is absolutely the best way to assign limited resources to production. Heres the thing, Russia was bankrupt as a result of communisim. Why? because communisim corrupts the economies ability to be efficient. It also causes the level of productivity to fall to the lowest common denominator because there is no incentive - indeed there is extreme pressure not - to improve.

Russia went through the agony of political reform first, and are now experiencing the pain of economic reform. That vacuum created the opportunity for the problems they have now. China meanwhile is experiencing economic refrom now and maybe in 10 - 20 years they will benefit from political reform. That region is going to OWN THE WORLD in 20 - 30 years. I'm not joking. They already own about 25% of the US Fedearl debt. The politburo of China has maintained the political power but has opened the ecomony to the benefit of a free market. The inhabitants say, "I don't need the vote right now if I'm given an environment that allows me to be rewarded for my talent".

The attempt to justify / compare US domestic "Crime" to the institutionalized corruption and civil rights abuse of Iraq / Afghanistan etc. is of course completely absurd. In fact, I regret spending the last 15 seconds of life in making mention of it.

I also find it completely histerical to suggest that the social programs of the Wes are a result of "pressure" from the communist Russia and correspondingly the reduction and stresses on programs today are a result of the lack of competition from Socialist countries. I don't mean to belittle your hypothesys (sp?) but you can't possably be serious? I assume to just trying to rattle my chain.

Matt. The world is full of all sorts of people and it sounds like you have a direct experience in some ways that I do not. Have you spend a lot of time reading on modern history and economic theory etc? I'm not being a ***** here, I'm being very sincere. And I mean serious and extensive study. Maybe it comes with age but socialist ideals are framed around an unfortunately flawed assumption that as individuals we are willing to sacrifice as individuals for the benefit of the whole. Not withstanding that noble ideal and the compassion of many, it is the way people are.

Democracy and the free market may not be the only system, but its a LONG way ahead of whatever comes second.

 

Shawn, you have to read between the lines, I'm not implying that communism was great, but trust me, having lived in Russia and seeing their views, you will never be the same person. If you live in a communist country everything they say makes sense, this is why their population would argue over how communism was great and it all makes sense. Also, yes Russia was all that when it came to structuring democracy, having lived in Russia and seeing how America did everything in their power in tearing communism apart I know. Reason Russia fell apart is not because of communism my friend, its because it made a mistake of feeding every other nation like Cuba. Russia spread itself out too thin on countries that in the end were of no benifit. It is all because of US, other smaller countries like Belarus, Kasovstan, Ukrain all belived in the US BS, and said "screw you Russia, we're way better off without, we'll run things when we separate and become democratic, we'll teach you how to pee standing up", hahahahhaha, stupid idiots, where are they now? Hu? Russia is still standing, the mother land, all these small countries fell for the US BS as that was all the influence to separate. Russia spent all its money feeding these bastards and they all betrayed her, now all these countries are dying of hunger, just last month I watched a whole special on Ukrain, people were all crying when Soviet Union was mentioned, saying that the clothing the average family was wearing is still what they got durring the Soviet days, words exactly "everything was so good then, why? why?". Well too late now.

Had there of been no US influence, Russia would not spread itself out thin and would still exist today, trust me I lived there I remember the words said and how everything went down.

I am not saying Communism is better, but what I am saying is that for some countries they are way better off and that is fact. Why did the US care so much that communism be gone? Leave them alone, why are you doing this its none of your fricking business, then they wonder why they are getting bombed, your not God, why should you descide whats right?
So Shawn, that is why it failed, take a former comrad's word for it.


And as for comparing local crime to the middle east, well you don't know what is absurd, to them what we do is obsurd and against their beliefs, to us how the middle east goes about doing their business is obsurd. They are a totally different people, don't try to compare yourself to them, plus they just came off the camel and your teaching them democracy, its funny.


See, point is you can go on about this until the cows come home and you have to agree, but in the end, I think doing the right thing is to not kill.

Matt.

 

well bush won, atleast the canadian dollar will continue to go up

 

As you say Matt, we can both agree on that.

It's all good.

PS: Although your personal experience significantly exceeds mine, I have a client who left Belarussia in 1990 and we have had many long and interesting chats about his thoughts.

 

LOL yeah, belarus is doing very bad after separating, but yeah I'm saddened, almost cried when Kerry lost.