The #1 power in the world has always had this problem - whether it be the US, the British Empire, the French Empire under Napolean, the Roman Empire, etc. etc.

And look what happens when no one wants to do the policing... (World War II)

 

Ill give a thumbs up to being the best neighbor a country could have but i dont think the states is policing the world. and if they think they are they are not doing a very good job. the states looks after there best interests first (which also happens to usually ours also) so another thumbs up. if they started policing then things will get worse. its like the game risk if you go into to many countries your army starts to spread itself thin. other countries including us need to start doing more of our share and stop riding on the states coat tails when it comes to military

 

Just a question? How many of you have ever served as a militery member?

I have. I have handled dead body's and seen death first hand during PEACE time. I am glad they posted this entire video!

People ARE complacent and if you think it is just the people in the USA mabe one should look harder at the people around them.

I also was opposed to going into Iraq and at the same time it was a fact it needed to be done. The UN has become a gruop of *** kissing pansies trying to stroke every one on earth into there gruop of feminest licking ecoterrorist.

Many of you have NO clue what it takes to fight the war they are fighting. TRUST me News Story's are crap and i do not care who is telling it to you. there is NO way on earth one can under stand what it takes until they have been in that situation.

At the age of 19 I realized I could kill a person. It Haunted me for years and to this day to think How easily I could take a life. I was posted in South Korea. A country at "Peace" with its bordering sister North Korea. Anyone have any idea how many have been killed protecting the border in the past 40 years or so there has been "Peace" there? More then one you might think or be able to find.

The BIGGEST problem with this war IS the news coverage and the fact we are not ALLOWED to fight it the way it needs to be fought. We are fighting with our hands tied behind our backs. We are required to fight in a civilized manor while our opponent is able to fight and kill with out rules. What good is the Geniva(sp) convention if WE are the only one required to abide by it? Our solders are raped and killed at will by the people we are fighting and we are suppossed to treat them like god. It plays perfectly into there hands!

As far as the prisoners pictures. To be quite honest they were degrading at worst. Against the rules we self impose upon our selves at the VERY worst. Other then that I just feel the pictures should have not been taken but are of no real means to an end.

To be quite honest I am tired of working my *** off to pay for everyone in the world. Canada is a big place. How big do you think it would have been if it bordered Russia the way it does the USA?(not ment to be offensive, just a thought to ponder)

When you really get right down to it 90%-100% of the time wars are fought over religion. As terrible as it may seem this is the root of all evil. I can not think of one of them that has not tried to enforce there idea of right and wrong upon another at some point in time. In the end they ALL have the same ideas. Control the world and make all others use there belief systems.

On top of that they are ALL hipocrits to there own system and only want the control. they use the weakenss's of the people who follow them blind as sheep and use the power of numbers to show control.

I do not mean to rant but I do get tired of taking critisizem's from people who really truely do not under stand what it takes to fight a war. Many of you have done this from the begining and the worst thing you have had to deal with in your life is a wreckless driving ticket.

The way we live in The USA and Canada is NOT a good representation of the way the rest of the world lives.

I did not go to college and I have not always lived in the safety of this country. I have traveled and lived in the areas of country's most of you would never want to go. I served my Country for 14 years and I am very proud of that fact. I can't spell as well as most and my sentance and paragraph construction suck.

On the other hand it is because of people like me most of us here have the rights and privaleges we do. I am not saying our system or government is any better then any other in the world past or present but how many would have liked to live in a post Hitler winning world today? Then again we ARE getting close....

For the record I am not tring to offend, critisize or belittle any ones way of thinking or life but provide some insite to my way of thinking..nothing more

 

World Wars I and II had little to do with religion... but I definitely agree that many smaller conflicts have been triggered this way...

I also agree that since the Korean War, US armed forces are always hamstrung when sent in to action. It was THE big problem in Vietnam, and is a problem here.

I haven't served in the armed forces - but if I had grown up in the US I might well have joined the Navy. Being a navy fighter pilot was always a dream of mine - unfortunately this wouldnt be posible in Canada without any carriers .

 

There are some sick *** in the world. Now I here we are on the terrorist list cause we support the US. Apparently Canada is No#5 on the terrorist list of places to strike. The extremist muslims say we are their friends or enemys with no compromise in-between. They give regular muslims a bad name who are a huge majority. The extremist on the news said canadians are "carefree people who don't care". I find this statement to be a load of crap. We help any nation in times of crisis with aid and take in more new immigrants then any other country in the world.

 

Draco do you happen to remember what Hitlers biggest goal was?

I am pretty sure stomping out every Jewish person on Earth was on the list as a major goal? I could be wrong....

 

His biggest goal was to provide Lebensraum (Living Space) for Germans and in so doing create a massive German empire (his Third Reich).

He blamed the jews for the defeat of Germany in World War I, and used this as his basis for their extermination - but that wasn't why he went on to attempt to conquer Europe. Hitler's aggresion resulted in more non-Jewish deaths then Jewish deaths (which goes to show just how many died in that war)

 

Hey Ellis, my friend.... Well written post, thanks for taking the time.

No doubt. Bang on! If those boys (Iraqis, or the Terroists) had the technology/ man power/ wisdom/ etc, that the US does, they would use it with no restraint. Meanwhile, the US has to play a game while their own boys who are being fatally challenged daily. And this from an inferior Country.

The US has shown the world once before what happens to people who rattle their cage. Maybe that is a lesson which has to be taught to these people who challenge authority, once again.

Myself, I certainly doubt that if I was the leader of a dictatorship, that I would put up with what the US has put up with, in Iraq to date.

 

Bob, Ellis, good discussion points.

I have not watched the video and at this moment have no interest in tracking it down.

I too am a studant of 20th century history and one thing we must all except is that war crimes happen on both sides. Having said that, I'm confidant that the magnitude and frequency of some crimes by first world combatents is significantly LESS then others.

I know it may sound racist in some way, but I'm afraid I feel that there are MANY countries in the world for whom life is cheap. That zealotry, is readily manifest in the lack of respect for human life. The pictures I saw so far have been more "mistreatment" as opposed to abuse, or torture. That being said, the Americans, by there own admission, have videos that apparantly are extremely disturbing.

I 'supported' (small 's') Bush in his campaign and I'm at a loss and confused by the troubles that the US IS having in Iraq now. I thought that they WOULD be welcomed by an oppressed people and although I'm sure that the majority DO appreciate their freedom, the level of insurrection is a surprise to me. This war WAS about being a "police man" for the world and that is fine with me. I have no problem with that. Rarely do Americans pick a fight but you push them to far and you are going to get your a$$ handed to you.

The justification that the US used was WMD. Saddam insisted on playing some cat and mouse game with the US and the US got sick and tired of having their chain yanked. It DOES appear that are no WMD. He would still be in power today if he had just rolled out the carpet and said, "Look around guys, go any where you want. Nothing to hide here."

He let his ego and pride interfere with his intelligance and just let the US look around all they wanted.

Why the Americans made pictures and tapes of these events just boggles the mind.

At the end of the day, the Americans HAVE to try and stay there and not leave a vacuum. What I don't understand is that the Americans want out as much as anyone else. Why does the opposition not keep their yap shut, the guns hidden and let the Americans quickly get on with rebuilding the infrastructure and then get the hell out of Dodge.

They can then have their tin-pot piece of rock and sand back and fight over it amongst themselves.

And if ANYONE says this was was about control of oil, then they have not thought out their argument at all. Iraq oil production is about 1% of world supply. Hence, the US control of Iraq oil sure hasn't done anything to restrain $42 a barrel oil prices.

 

where did this whole geneva convention come from. being caught and humiliated is alot better to me then being shot and killed out in the field. i dont care what the US soldiers do to the prisioners. if i caught someone who not to long ago was trying to shoot me i would have done alot worse then humiliate them.

the thing i dont like is they seem to be portraying the pictures as a reason for what they did to that nick berg. there was no excuse.
i say USDA do what you want over there fight it how you want who cares if you look bad to united nations they'll be kissing your A$$ after.

 

me too lol !!

 

Hey, do I know you? ... or I am a different Bob? I seen some other post mention Bob, but I had no idea that they might know me. Anyways......

That makes two of us. What is wrong with those people?

You know 97, that thought has crossed my mind a dozen times. Why in the world didn't Saddam just let the boys in and see for themselves? If he had, he would still be in power, his sons would still be alive, etc etc.


Ok, I hate to agree with everything you say, but yeah, why in the world make tapes and pictures of yourself abusing your rights? Were these their trophies? What possesses transgressors to take pictures?

umm, me three.

 

 

When you have nothing to live for, when death is a lot simpler than life, when you bust your *** to put ONE meal a day on your table for your starving kids, you will do anything to have a better life if you get the chance, even to the extent that you will sacrifice yourself. It is a mentality, a culture, a "lack" of education, opportunity, and sometimes the lack of basic neccesitties of life. What do you think a starving, and sick wolf/mountain lion/bear or any other animal would do when they have no other choice?

I never supported Bush, IMHO I think he is an idiot. Although, He probably was the best person to be in charge on 9/11, however, I don't think he lived up to the "position" he portrayed. I also think he is a puppet. But enough of that.
IMHO the Americans were welcomed. Did you notice how the civilian population moved aside when the americans showed up? They saw an opportunity, and they put up no fight. THey hated Saddam (who IMHO is a very sick and evil, but very smart man) Saddams armed forces did their jobs, and most tried to fight, and were obviously outmatched by the US. When Saddams statues fell, did anyone notice how happy people were arround there? They were ecstatic!! They were finally free! They cheered the US!!! But.. THe US didn't stop. I know they had a duty to hand over IRaq in a much more stable condition then it was in. However, the people didn't see it that way. They didn't care about anything else but getting rid of Saddam. Instead they got the US telling them that the country would be given back when the US made it what the Americans thought it should be like. It is the Iraqis home, THEY finaly had a chance to make that decison, but were denied that choice. They finally had a chance to take control of their lives but it was shortlived. The US had, in the peoples opinon(at least what I think) told them how to rebuild thier country. They still saw the people who were appointed as rich zealots that were clones of Saddam and were puppets of the US. They were not loyal to Iraq.

Would the US allow the Russians, North Koreans, China, to come into the US to see what weapons of MASS Destruction that they have? Why should Saddam be forced to say yes. He allowed the UN, fine. But one country to be allowed to go in without permission? Hell even cops need a warrant to enter your house.

Ego/pride? Maybe he did let it get in his way. Intelligence? Did the US find any WMD?

Trophies!.. Why tape yourself having sex? Or doing burnouts in a publice place? "Because it's cool"

As for oil.. official production might be 1%, however the supply is over 10% of the worlds... thats a lot of oil...It would be nice if you could have a friend that would give that to you real cheap. How do you think Saddam got so rich? when the sanctions said he was allowed no money, but had to trade his oil for food, etc, for his country? 10% of the worlds oil could really effect the price when your negotiating with the oil cartels.

 

I agree with alot you have to say except one thing.

Iraq invaded Kwait America (UN forces but REALLY who enforces UN actions??) fought against Sadam and Iraq forces to deny them occupation of Kwait. Sadam then entered a treaty with the UN (Which by the way resulted in alot of people in Iraq slaughtered for helping the US in the war).


The CONDITIONS of this treaty is what gave the UN the RIGHT to check on the military capibilties. Sadam was letting them see what HE wanted. Wether or not he had WMD he was not fulfilling this treaty. The UN not the US should have enforced it but was unwilling to do so for YEARS.

So in my mind Sadam was conquered. Just like Germany, Japan was they had to concede to concessions about self defense Sadam should have to do the same.

And as far as pulling out of Iraq WTF??? What do you think is going to happen if the US pulls out of Iraq now? I understand why the people feel the way they do. But the US has no intention of "Ruleing" over Iraq and that is what the zealouts are saying to the people and getting them all worked up. If the US pulls out those zealouts will claim victory and significant influence politically. What do you think Sadam was????????????

Its just a messed up situation, just like afganistan But we can't leave wether that is right or wrong how we "rebuild" is no longer a question. We just have to do the best we can. Is there money and oil motives behind this HELL yes, is there secuirty and influence in the region HELL yes. Will the Iraqi people have a better standard of living in regards to education, medical, national security, a piece of the economic resources of thier country HELL yes (instead of building zealouts castles). A greater force has commited its military resources to over throw a government wether or not that right, its reality.