I am real close to buying a Venom nitrous kit, VCN-1000. This seems to be about as safe as they come. Is anyone here running a Venom kit? Just looking for some feed back on them.

Thanks,
Jeff



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Silver 96' F-1 K&N cold air,95 style Pace Setter headers,99'WS6 exhaust w/cut-out,no cats,Power pulley,Msd6A,Motive 4.10's,LT4km,B&M ripper,Lakewood PHR & LCA's V-6 rear springs. MAC SFC's.LT4 hotcam kit. SLP clutch/PP

 

You might want to do a "search" for some threads on Venom. We have had some long debates on this system, but it might have been so long ago the posts are now gone.

One of the major questions was whether the system would operate with "sequential" injectors. A Venom rep came on the board, but was so intertested in spouting platitudes about how great the Venom system was compared to the "old-fashioned" systems all of us are using, and teaching us about "Nitrous 101", that he didn't answer the real questions.

Basically, the Venom controller appears to interupt the injector pulse width signal from the stock PCM, and add to the pulse width based on nitrous flow, and then corrects the fuel addition rate based on feedback from the stock O2 sensors. Fine in theory.

The system appears to work only with "batch fire" injectors, and may lack the ability and processing capability to handle inputs for 8 sequential injectors. At least one individual sent a tech question to Venom and was told this was the case. Remember, these guys cut their nitrous teeth on 4-cylinder imports. The Venom dolt who condescended to speak with the unwashed of this board never answered that question.

The data they show on the website for a Chevy V8, as I recall, is for an L98 Vette, or some such, and of course that is a batch fire setup. I think I would ask Venom to state specifically whether the system will work with an LT1 sequential injection system.

The other objection that a lot of people have to the Venom controller is the reliance on the OEM O2 sensors. They are simply NOT accurate at the A/F ratio levels you want for nitrous. The curve of mV output vs. A/F ratio is way to shallow, meaning a very large swing in A/F ratio shows up as a very small change in mV's. And, at anything richer than 14.7:1, the sensor is extremely sensitive to operating temperature, and swings in the operating temp can cause larger mV output variations than changes in A/F ratio. That would mask A/F ratio changes.

Finally, the controller has a lot of features most of us do not need or even want... timed delivery to allow for turbo spoolup.... proportional partial throttle N2O activation.... etc. You are paying for a lot of features you don't need.

I am open to learning more about the Venom system, but the guy from Venom really didn't seem to have too much in the way of answers when he participated in these threads.

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Fred
94 Formula A3: 381/TH400/N2O

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[This message has been edited by Injuneer 94FormM6 (edited July 17, 2002).]

 

Thanks for the reply Fred. I have a friend who owns a LS1 and he swears by it. I have been reading up on it on LS1.com and there are quite a few guys who swear by it. Here is a few links:

http://www.ls1.com/forums/showthread...ferrerid=31640

http://www.ls1.com/forums/showthread...ferrerid=31640

You can go to LS1.com and read up if you want to find more. There are two systems the VCN-1000 and the VCN-2000($1200). The 1000 is about $650 and has about the same features as the 2000 but without the 3 modes of operation and the nifty display, and patented solnoid.


As for the fuel system, the LS1 is pretty much the same as the LT1 system right?

Read up and let me know what ya'll think, again thanks Fred.
There is alot about them on LS1.com
Jeff

 

Reading the LS1 thread, it "appears" that Venom has developed the capacity to handle 8-cyl sequential injection, since they have "8 blue wires" going from the controller to the injectors. I would assume they aren't somehow firing the injectors bank-to-bank. So that is one problem out of the way.

As far as similarities between the LT1 and LS1, proceed with caution. The NOS 5177 LS1 kit sprays in front of the MAF, and relies on the MAF to pick up the added mass flow and cause the PCM to add the required fuel. An article that I read on the NOS kit indicated that this worked well in the LS1's because #1 - the LS1 PCM processor is much faster, and #2 - the LS1 stays in closed loop at WOT. I was later told by an LS1 owner that #2 is not correct, so I don't know, but that is NOS's explanation of why their dry kit works.

And, the fuel system in the LS1's is a little different, in that the rails are supplied by a "dead end" pressure control system, having a bypass type regulator closer to the tank, and not running the total fuel supply through the rails and using a pressure controller to regulate the return stream to control pressure. I do not think that would cause a problem with the Venom concept, but the LS1 is different, and runs at a higher rail pressure - 58psi.

Point of this is, the LS1 will not only have the Venom processor altering the injector pulse widths in response to the signals from the OEM N2O sensors - if the LS1 stays in closed loop at WOT, it will also have the stock PCM responding to the O2 sensors by adding extra fuel if it starts to lean out. So you might have a double protection that doesn't exist in the LT1.

All of this is sort of "iffy" - I just have not had any need to look at the LS1 PCM in any depth, but maybe it is time. I picked up a 2001 Silverado, and dropping a dry nitrous kit on the LS1-derived engine would certainly make it a little more fun to drive.... .

Fred

 

Damn Fred, everytime you manage to blow my mind with a wealth of knowledge.

I also read that on the LS1 application that it doesnt matter which wires you hook up to the injectors from the venom harness, they are not specific to what injector neg. you hook it to. It can change the pulsewidth by just hooking to the negative?

I guess I am going to be the guinea pig for this. I wish I could find if any LT1 owners have ever run this.

P.S Fred, you know where I can find a PCM Diagram for a 96/97 PCM?

Thanks,
Jeff

[This message has been edited by my96z (edited July 17, 2002).]

 

I would like to more about the vcn-2000 on the ls1....the venom web site does not say anything about it....anybody got one?

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Wow! I have to agree. In the past Fred and I have not got along too good, so to speak. However, Fred, you REALLY are knowledgeable in the LT1, nitrous, physics and chemistry depts. I usually have to read what he wrote about 3 times before I can understand it. Keep up the good information.BTW... Sorry for calling BS that one day.

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`96 TransAm: RamAir w/ K&N filter, 125hp Zex dry kit, 3.73 gears, McLeod StreetTwin clutch, Borla cat-back, 1le alum. driveshaft, B&M shifter, Walbro in-line fuel booster pump, Granatelli MAF, 52mm TB w/Airfoil and coolent bypass, LT4 KM + programmed computer, Accel 8.8 race wires, Zex Hyperformance plugs, MSD Univ. Adj. timing, Window switch, Sport-comp Nitrous, Boost, Fuel pressure gauges in center 3 vents and Air/Fuel gauge on A-pillar pod, Mobil 1 only, !CAGS, Yokohama tires, tinted windows.

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Some of the LS1 guys really promote the Venom (I think there's a guy on there named VenomZ28 or VenomSS or something who has the 2000 system), but I'm not one who likes to be a guinea pig

Right now I plan to go with nitrous, but the NX kit is top on my list right now followed by ZEX & TNT.

-Michael

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The MAJOR problem with the Venom setup, and one for which I have never heard a definitive answer is the very simple fact that since they use pulse widths to add fuel, what happens to people who have modded their cars and generally are getting close to or over 100% duty cycle just running NA? Where do they expect to get the extra fuel from??????

In my opinion, the Venom sucks big time for modded cars. Might work somewhat on stockers, but in my opinion, putting N2O on a 100% stock car is just a simple band-aid that will bring nothing but trouble.

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SSMOKEM

1995 Impala SS "Cherry Bomb"
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