WOW, insane bill from machine shop
Registered User
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 3,068
From: Cincinnati, Ohio
Re: WOW, insane bill from machine shop
Man some of that stuff is STEEP. Ive got a invoice in front of me from my 383 from BES here in ohio which is nationally known, and some of the stuff isnt even in the same ballpark.
For example..
Valve cover clearence... $20
Fit 4 bolt caps and line bore... $300
Clearencing for stroker... $150
etc etc etc
For example..
Valve cover clearence... $20
Fit 4 bolt caps and line bore... $300
Clearencing for stroker... $150
etc etc etc
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Joined: Dec 1969
Posts: 10,745
From: Buffalo, New York
Re: WOW, insane bill from machine shop
The counterweights on the Dragonslayer need to be cut down for most 5.7" rod/piston combos. This adds cost and requires more mallory, also adding to the cost of balancing.
Rich
Rich
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,439
From: New Jersey
Re: WOW, insane bill from machine shop
I guess I did have alot of stuff done.....I guess im gonna have to pay it. ALL i know is, this thing better scream! One thing i saw about this shop is they have zero tollerence when it comes to balancing. They get it to as CLOSE to 0 as possible, but they spend alot of time on it to do that. Now I did not give them a flywheel, i told them my flywheel was neutral ballanced from spec, was that the correct thing to do? They said it'll be fine as long as the flywheel was neutral balanced.
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Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 1,764
From: North Canton, OH
Re: WOW, insane bill from machine shop
Personally IMO...you should had it externally balanced.
Then you should have had every gasket you needed bought along with the parts.
I also do not see much clearancing if any with your rotating assembly. I would want to see where this work was performed.
Just because they are charging a lot does not mean they will not rip you off.
Then you should have had every gasket you needed bought along with the parts.
I also do not see much clearancing if any with your rotating assembly. I would want to see where this work was performed.
Just because they are charging a lot does not mean they will not rip you off.
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 849
From: Shawnee Kansas
Re: WOW, insane bill from machine shop
You are getting hosed on the rod and main bearings. SBC H-series rod and main bearings jobber for half of that and the machine shop will pay 28% or better off of the Clevite line.
CB663H Jobber 8.56 ea - $68.48
MS909H Jobber 68.73 set
I don't know what cam bearing was used, is it a coated bearing like Dura-Bond or a standard Clevite set? They're really socking it to you there. Did you bug these guys daily or change your mind several times? I can't imagine why they would do this on some of the parts. Labor does appear reasonable..
CB663H Jobber 8.56 ea - $68.48
MS909H Jobber 68.73 set
I don't know what cam bearing was used, is it a coated bearing like Dura-Bond or a standard Clevite set? They're really socking it to you there. Did you bug these guys daily or change your mind several times? I can't imagine why they would do this on some of the parts. Labor does appear reasonable..
Thread Starter
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,439
From: New Jersey
Re: WOW, insane bill from machine shop
When it comes to clearencing they had to clearence the rear of the block to for the crank to turn, then had to notch the block for the rods, they had to clearence the rods cus they were hitting the lobes on the cam, they had to clearence the oil pan inside for the dipstick, had to clearence the valve covers for it to fit over the 1.6RR, had to clearence the intake manifold runners cus they didn't line up with the bolt holes on the head for some odd reason....ummmmm I think thats it for clearencing stuff i think....I dunno could be missing somehting, maybe the parts which are $1000 it seems is throwing this bill off....
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Joined: Dec 1969
Posts: 3,499
From: PORTLAND, OR, MULTNOMAH
Re: WOW, insane bill from machine shop
Bottom line is: You had alot of work done and the time it takes to do all that stuff is going to add up big time. All in all, I guess the labor and parts would be comparable to a new engine. The most important part is if they really did a great job and actually did what they are charging you for.
This you may never know for certain unless the thing goes to hell as soon as you put the pedal to the metal.
If they did a great job, then I'd say you got what you paid for...if they didn't then you got screwed big time (been there).
When you wind up putting this much money in your car and having someone else do the work, you somehow acquire a new attitude about how you drive it...unless, of course, you have big bucks to throw around.
One thing to bear in mind when having work done and that is don't go in with the misconception that if they screw it up that you will be made whole...cause it just doesn't work that way.
And...if they did a great job with the balancing, part,etc. you may have a care that will last longer than normal if you don't drive the Pi$$ out of it, but you still didn't gain any significant power increases.
So if you have a great and strong engine, it's time to drop the CR down to 8.5, install a SC w/ IC and all the goodies and call it jake. JMHO
This you may never know for certain unless the thing goes to hell as soon as you put the pedal to the metal.
If they did a great job, then I'd say you got what you paid for...if they didn't then you got screwed big time (been there).
When you wind up putting this much money in your car and having someone else do the work, you somehow acquire a new attitude about how you drive it...unless, of course, you have big bucks to throw around.
One thing to bear in mind when having work done and that is don't go in with the misconception that if they screw it up that you will be made whole...cause it just doesn't work that way.
And...if they did a great job with the balancing, part,etc. you may have a care that will last longer than normal if you don't drive the Pi$$ out of it, but you still didn't gain any significant power increases.
So if you have a great and strong engine, it's time to drop the CR down to 8.5, install a SC w/ IC and all the goodies and call it jake. JMHO
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Posts: 1,439
From: New Jersey
Re: WOW, insane bill from machine shop
thats why i went abit more hardcore on the bottom end then most do. I plan to spray nitrous for awhile, and then put a set of larger cc heads, correct head gasket to drop CR down and throw a SC with intercooler on and do that and spray. According to JE, and callies this rotating assembaly will hold the power just fine.....we'll see....if i spin a berring the first time i spray then im gonna flip.....
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Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 1,764
From: North Canton, OH
Re: WOW, insane bill from machine shop
I have built some strokers before and never had an issue with clearances...but those were 383" combos.
Now the 396" I built was a different story.
Like I said...I would have to see what they clearanced before I forked over the money because your not running crazy stroke and I unless your running a very massive radical cam, those rods I don't think should be hitting the cam.
JMHO
Now the 396" I built was a different story.
Like I said...I would have to see what they clearanced before I forked over the money because your not running crazy stroke and I unless your running a very massive radical cam, those rods I don't think should be hitting the cam.
JMHO
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,439
From: New Jersey
Re: WOW, insane bill from machine shop
I am running a fairly large custom cam...and i saw what they had to clearence. They had to clearence the side of the rods where the bolts go through, i saw where it was hitting on the lobe. They had to notch the rear of the block to get the counter weight to turn back there, they had to notch the whole blockfor the head of the bolts on the rods to pass, had to clearence valve covers, timing chain cover, etc... etc...i guess i had alot more then most people have done, guess i paid the price...
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Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 1,764
From: North Canton, OH
Re: WOW, insane bill from machine shop
You could have run a smaller base circle cam. Think what the guys that run 4.0 strokers go thru? I took out a large chunk of stuff out with my setup...
They still charged you a lot for the services they provided.
They still charged you a lot for the services they provided.
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,309
From: sebewaing, mi
Re: WOW, insane bill from machine shop
they double charged and overcharged in some cases! bring up these points
except i know line honing cost a bunch, what norm for the 4 bolt conversion?
except i know line honing cost a bunch, what norm for the 4 bolt conversion?
Originally Posted by SStrokerAce
I'll highlight what I think is high and explain down the post
1. *Block Speical (Bore, Hown, square deck): $500 & *Torque plate and hone block .001: $165.00
Wow, normally I would say $400-$500 total for this would be sane if the job was done properly, but WTF they got you twice on this. I go in set the size of the bores and then set the cylinder wall finish to a certain spec for the rings... this takes an extra 2 hours and I don't charge this much total... and mine includes a $1500 profilometer to do the job.
2. *Machined and installed 4 bolt splayed main, line honed (6 hours): $800
Wow.... With caps that shouldn't be that much. I've even had a shop screw with me on the line bore because they are morons and I don't have a line bore I can get too and it wasn't this much.
3. *Machining the pan and cutting the dipstick tube to fit: 97.50
What kind of pan? Maybe with L19 bolts and a 3.75 or bigger stroke on a stock pan but my lord. If you are half way smart fixing the #4 main bearing cap for the dipstick takes about 15mins max on a mill.
4. *Messure and shim the springs (cut valves seats): $250
Should be closer to $100 for this unless they had to cut the **** out of the spring seats.
5. *Grind valve covers to fit over 1.6rr's (lips): $130
Yeah that's why you don't use stock VC's but still, I've had to fix those "billet" cast ebay deals as well.
6. *(8) Rod Berrings (H series): $114.16
*1 set of main rod berrings (H series): $152.73
Ok I could understand this if they order up 3 sets of bearings -.001, STD and X... to get the clearances right like I do but the price for rod bearings should be a total on the mains and rods.
7. *Changed position of dowl on block for more secure connection for timing cover: $65
*Setup machine inside cover for chain: $130
*Timing cover gaskets: $20.19
*Made a plug for top timing cover hole and machined cover for timing chain: $40
Hmm.... I turn a aluminum plug for the TC, press it in, sandblast, clearance the cover on the mill, install the new seals which come with the Felpro gasket set and powdercoat it for about 1/2 that.
8. *Notched block for crank,rods,pistons: $260
A Block Clearancing $260! Jesus did they deburr the whole thing of casting flash and do the lifter valley for oil drainback too? A block clearancing should be about half of that on a 383.
9. *File fit the rings for pistons: $80
*Degree camshaft: $75
*Check piston to valve clearence: $65
*Messure pushrods and Comp Cams Molly push rods (7.200"): $178.15
*Put Motor together and adjust valves $375
*Assemble pistons on rods w/ clips&rings: $50
Ok so lets take the $124 PR out of this.... that gives you $700 for a motor assembly... IMHO this should all be one price for these things because if you build a motor and don't do this it ain't gonna run or last long. That's a tad bit high but if it's all done right I don't think that's out of line.
10. *Ballanced the Assembaly (5 pieces of mallory added): $700
Ok What Pistons, Rods did you put on this? Was it done with a external balance or a internal balance? The Mallory makes this expensive here and I don't know how you get it that high, but I have heard that the Cola takes a lot of metal to do this so that's what happens, you make up for the cheap price in the cost of balancing..... If the counterweights were really big then the clearancing could be a bitch, but then you wouldn't need so much Mallory.
11. *2 srts cam berrings: $160
If they screwed up they need to eat the labor on the second set of bearings at least here and at $20-$30 a set that should knock this down to about $100 total.
Some of these things are odd and out of line but others are about right.
Bret
1. *Block Speical (Bore, Hown, square deck): $500 & *Torque plate and hone block .001: $165.00
Wow, normally I would say $400-$500 total for this would be sane if the job was done properly, but WTF they got you twice on this. I go in set the size of the bores and then set the cylinder wall finish to a certain spec for the rings... this takes an extra 2 hours and I don't charge this much total... and mine includes a $1500 profilometer to do the job.
2. *Machined and installed 4 bolt splayed main, line honed (6 hours): $800
Wow.... With caps that shouldn't be that much. I've even had a shop screw with me on the line bore because they are morons and I don't have a line bore I can get too and it wasn't this much.
3. *Machining the pan and cutting the dipstick tube to fit: 97.50
What kind of pan? Maybe with L19 bolts and a 3.75 or bigger stroke on a stock pan but my lord. If you are half way smart fixing the #4 main bearing cap for the dipstick takes about 15mins max on a mill.
4. *Messure and shim the springs (cut valves seats): $250
Should be closer to $100 for this unless they had to cut the **** out of the spring seats.
5. *Grind valve covers to fit over 1.6rr's (lips): $130
Yeah that's why you don't use stock VC's but still, I've had to fix those "billet" cast ebay deals as well.
6. *(8) Rod Berrings (H series): $114.16
*1 set of main rod berrings (H series): $152.73
Ok I could understand this if they order up 3 sets of bearings -.001, STD and X... to get the clearances right like I do but the price for rod bearings should be a total on the mains and rods.
7. *Changed position of dowl on block for more secure connection for timing cover: $65
*Setup machine inside cover for chain: $130
*Timing cover gaskets: $20.19
*Made a plug for top timing cover hole and machined cover for timing chain: $40
Hmm.... I turn a aluminum plug for the TC, press it in, sandblast, clearance the cover on the mill, install the new seals which come with the Felpro gasket set and powdercoat it for about 1/2 that.
8. *Notched block for crank,rods,pistons: $260
A Block Clearancing $260! Jesus did they deburr the whole thing of casting flash and do the lifter valley for oil drainback too? A block clearancing should be about half of that on a 383.
9. *File fit the rings for pistons: $80
*Degree camshaft: $75
*Check piston to valve clearence: $65
*Messure pushrods and Comp Cams Molly push rods (7.200"): $178.15
*Put Motor together and adjust valves $375
*Assemble pistons on rods w/ clips&rings: $50
Ok so lets take the $124 PR out of this.... that gives you $700 for a motor assembly... IMHO this should all be one price for these things because if you build a motor and don't do this it ain't gonna run or last long. That's a tad bit high but if it's all done right I don't think that's out of line.
10. *Ballanced the Assembaly (5 pieces of mallory added): $700
Ok What Pistons, Rods did you put on this? Was it done with a external balance or a internal balance? The Mallory makes this expensive here and I don't know how you get it that high, but I have heard that the Cola takes a lot of metal to do this so that's what happens, you make up for the cheap price in the cost of balancing..... If the counterweights were really big then the clearancing could be a bitch, but then you wouldn't need so much Mallory.
11. *2 srts cam berrings: $160
If they screwed up they need to eat the labor on the second set of bearings at least here and at $20-$30 a set that should knock this down to about $100 total.
Some of these things are odd and out of line but others are about right.
Bret
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