Alvin one more cam question I asked you yesterday about the comp XFI 467. I am also considering the XFI 466. It's duration is 218/224 and the lift is 570/.565. I'm trying for sorta a sleeper here do you think it will idle smooth. The lift is up there but the duration is less than the 467. Thanks again.

 

Duration is the major player in affecting idle quality not lift. I think the cam you mentioned will idle quite nicely at 800-850 at 13.5 inches at least with a auto, probally around 14 at least with a 6 speed.

 

This is a great thread that reiterates what John Lingenfelter said for years, before the internet and before a lot of us were born. He must've known what he was doing. Just look at the past and current cam specs for the LPE 383s both LT1 and LS1 series....My old combination which was an LPE 383 used the 211/219 .533/.560 on a 112. Everyone said that they wouldn't even run a cam that small in a 305 let alone a 383...I went 11.70s for 10 years at 118 mph on radials thru 3.42s and got 25 mpg on the highway passing MDs strict emissions....The new LPE 383s use a 207/220 .57X/.58X on anywhere from like 114 to 117.5...A friend of mine in FL is running one of their 383s in his '03 Corvette running 11.50s @ 120 on radials with a soft 1.80 60'. He drove to Michigan and got 30 mph highway and is emissions legal...He'll be 11.20s once he learns how to drive the thing and gets it to hook...

My current freshening includes a still small Joe Overton cam in the 220ish/230ish range with .560ish lift and the thing feels more ridiculous than my old LPE set up and it still gets 22mpg on the highway. And you can drive it everyday without your eyes tearing up.

We hear you Ion! You don't necessarily need to go big to be bad...

--Alan

 

I totaly agree.. I've got it good though.. I'm one of those guys who will drive a car on the street that just ratles your teeth out and love every second of it... Nothing like siting at a light and the whole car shaking.. But if i had to drive it every single day.. it woudl be a whole nother story..

 

Alan,

OTOH I have a buddy who with only bolt ons is going that fast in a LS1 F-Body (low 11's with a 120mph trap) this is in a car setup for that that's a tad lighter than a normal f-body but not less than a C5 ZO6.

T/A Kid,

Remember that Shermans motor wasn't all about lift and duration either. It was only .560 lift on the intake and less on the exhaust due to the 1.5 rockers. He also didn't run a 114LSA to kill the overlap.

Guys, I don't know how to make it any clearer these things can be made to work with less or more duration than you think. I do agree that a little less duration helps especially when guys don't rev these motors. For what this thread is about IMHO duration is only a small part of the equation.

The LPE example is good. John knew what he was doing but you also have to realize this is with motors that didn't see much more than 6000rpm and were meant to drive like stock cars. Today we can get LS6 and LS7 motors that stock want to rev into the mid 6000 range all the way to 7000rpm. The stock LS7 cam is a 211/230 cam... now more RPM is possible and it's definatley beneficial to track times, but that also means if we lanuch the motors high enough and shift them higher that they will want more camshaft as well.

Bret

 

In this context, it's interesting to look at the cams Lingenfelter came up with way back when for the LT1. Lingenfelter knows (the compnay, not the person, I know he's passed) as much as anyone about the SBC. These guys know how to make big power and also know how to make enjoyable street performance cars. These were some of the first aftermarket LT1 cams, and work great for street performance both in 350's and 383's with both stock and ported OEM castings. There are a few people here on CZ28 with Lingenfelter motors, and I have never heard anything other than positives from them. I have driven a couple and they are excellent.

These cams have less than 220 degrees intake duration at 0.050". Very "small" by CZ28 standards. Are they "too small"? It depends what you are after, which get's to Ion's point about being honest with yourself.

Rich

 

Bret,

I know that there are many people running faster with a lot less work than my friend's C5. What I was getting at was that it uses a small cam, has passed emissions "sniffer" tests, has all emissions equipment on the car (its got LTs, but retains the cats), and is driven daily. With a Vararam system and some 1.6 60's there's a possible 10 second run in a daily driver...a true street car with the factory suspension with the only traction aide being BFG DRs on Z06 wheels...And this is with 3.42s and a weak Yank 2800 stall...Pretty cool...

--Alan

 

Lingenfelter has a different customer base than CZ28 has nowadays though. JL marketed his cars to the kind of person that would pay 40K plus for an F-body. Most of them are called one thing - OLD. Yes, to stereotype, most old people don't like cam surge, or lope, or gas smell, etc. Younger people with limited budgets are willing to tolerate it. I think there is more marketing to Lingenfelter's decision than the magic "Lingenfelter knows what cams are best for SBC". I remember the days of a heads/cam LT1 car LUCKY to break 330 rwhp. Mainly it was cause the heads sucked, but usually cause the guys that had the cash to do them when the cars came out, would accept no compromises when it came to getting power. Granted, an 80 - 100 hp gain is nice, but when you can get 100 rwhp gain from LT and a cam now, the heads/cam combo doesn't look that appealing.

 

Brain,

I agree that nowadays you can get more hp with other set ups and I agree that the LPE customer base, for the most part, is older more well off people. The whole point of my post was that LPE makes their power using small cams while complying with strict emissions laws. Every street car that comes out of LPE has to be 50 state SMOG legal. I was just giving an example of what Ion was talking about.

--Alan

 

I have come to realize a few things from driving my car and just reading tons of stuff on this message board. While good gas milage in these cars is in fact possible, if its something your worried about (bad gas mileage) then u really shouldnt be driving any kind of car (or truck for that matter) that has a v8 in it. I will admit, my car is my daily driver and I know its not really all that practical for that. It doesnt really both me tho. If I could go back and redo it all, I wouldnt really change anything. I will back Ion up on the statement about tighter LSA's smelling more at idle. Even my hotcam on a 110lsa is noticably smelly at idle. Its just something that I have learned to deal with, especially since I have an ORP. I have to say that I tottaly back up Ion on this thread and I feel the exact same way he does. There is nothing I hate more then to hear someone complain about gas milage and driveability and they have a list of performance mods that goes on forever (especially a big cam) I have a buddy who wants to make his car a 10 second street but swears he will never get rid of his AC. Its just a fact of life, some people have there cake and want to eat it too. Peace, Dustin.

 

Well, you certainly can have a 10 second car with good manners, A/C, etc. It's all a matter of $$$ and knowledge. The fewer compromises you are willing to put up with, the more thought and $$$ have to go into it.

Rich

 

Personaly i think my cc306 is a very streetable cam. I had a hell of a time at first due to the maf sensor but now Its great, idles smooth with a little lope and doesnt burn my eyes anymore. Gotta give Ion the credit though he hit the tune right on the money. I couldnt be more satisfied!

 

i Hate to bring back up a old thread like this but it has helped me out alot and now im rethinking my setup. I always thought "bigger was better" until reading some of the stuff that was mentioned in this thread especially since i drive mine on the street and it would only see the track a few times. Would the LE2 have any surging problems in a 350 6speed car with 4:10's?

 

Bret put my cam/setup together, and when he first gave me the specs, I thought the damn thing wasnt going to even idle. I AM IN LOVE with the camshaft. It runs/idles/drives better than my old 240/240 .595 112 TPiS ZZX cam. I believe when it comes down to a setup, the best thing possible is to be honest with yourself. Unfortunately we cannot all have monster cam's and setups, yet run like a hybrid at part throttle and get 30mpg, its just not going to happen. Cam stuff can get reallly tricky, and should be left up to the professionals, i.e Bret and Various others...

 

A 6 speed and 4.10's is the perfect setup for a LE2.... if you want a slightly tamer version we can do that too, but the M6 and 4.10's is what I recomend on the LE2 cam.

Bret