LT1 Based Engine Tech 1993-1997 LT1/LT4 Engine Related

Way too much NO PPM (Emission Fail)

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Old Jun 19, 2010 | 06:47 PM
  #1  
Mir Hussain's Avatar
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Arrow Way too much NO PPM (Emission Fail)

So I drove the car after 2 years.
Burn off the 2 year GAS
Had to take to the E-Test for Emission test, where they do the roller run base test.
Back track the history ....
About two years ago and few months more; I switch back the Electric Water Pump to a Stock mechnical pump; old Stock one.
After that, I had radiatator fan not comming on issue. AND MIL throwing the code; Which turn out to be some sort of wiring issue. (I may have pinched it or pulled it when I was undoing the Relay wires off Electric Water Pump) So mechnic guy said.....the wire going inside same off the PCM and comming back to relay...... that's where is a problem. He said I can re run the wire PCM to relay box directly. I said ok for that.
Now I also had a issue for SAI P0412. That is also came after I switch to stock water pump from electric pump.
I dunno why in the world I did switch electric to stock pump when every thing was working. I shouldn't messing with some thing when it is not broken. O well.... and Non a less....
and comming back to the subject :- So with P0412 I know Air Pump not working and I have also notice I do not hear Airpump even comming on all all. Perhaps I connected the Air Pipes Back words Dunno though! (Exhaust ones to CAI to and eintake ones to Header Y divider, )
Hence it is only startup aid for CAT to warmup quickly so I didn't give too much care.
When Test reslult come to me; where it failed in NO PPM. Lmit is 396 and it did 596
Car.. ..It is has two year old Mobil One Oil with 360 Miles. Ran off the 2 year old gas, and I filled the GAS from Sunnco 94 OCT.
What should I do ?
CAR Specs
CAI
T-160 Stat
94-95 Headers
Egr connected
1.6 RR (LT4 Chevy)
94-95 MAC Hi PErformance CAT (Single)
Front O2 connected
Fan do not come on till 170
LS1 Borla with smallest Hole plate
I been told there is a stuff I can put in a Fuel tank
Drive it for a 200-300 Miles Refill it up and came back and redo the Test.
I was thinking I may need run a Seafoam
Any idea how I can reduce Nox ?
Test results are
Here are other results
HC was 15 limit is 54 (Pass)
CO% was 0.00 Limit is .30 (Pass)
NOX PPM was 594 and limit is 396 (FAIL)
Dilution 14.5 (Pass)
RPM 2246 (Pass) with load in Second Gear
(BTW I am not sure he plug or put the Y pipes to muffler to capture exhaust from both)
Old Jun 19, 2010 | 08:10 PM
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P0412 is the electric circuit to the AIR pump. Most likely a blown fuse. Has nothing to do with the way the pipes are hooked up.

Make sure the EGR system is functioning correctly. EGR is there to reduce NOx.

Make sure the engine is running as cool as possible. High combustion temps increase NOx.

Make sure its not running lean. Lean A/F ratio increases NOx. The fact that CO and HC are low may indicate its on the lean side.

Close the plate in the Borla. All the exhaust will exit on the left side.
Old Jun 19, 2010 | 08:11 PM
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Your cat is probably at fault. But other reasons could be too much carbon buildup causing high compression, engine too hot, timing too advanced, EGR not working. Maybe check your EGR valve to make sure it is activating and get the carbon out of the valve if it's plugged up. Timing really shouldn't be an issue since it is programed in there, but you could modify it if you knew how. IF you still have the stock cat somewhere and can get it on there, it might solve your problem. The precious metals in a cat are expensive, and the aftermarket ones skimp on them, so they make worse emissions.
Old Jun 19, 2010 | 09:20 PM
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Question

Originally Posted by Injuneer
P0412 is the electric circuit to the AIR pump. Most likely a blown fuse. Has nothing to do with the way the pipes are hooked up.

Make sure the EGR system is functioning correctly. EGR is there to reduce NOx.

Make sure the engine is running as cool as possible. High combustion temps increase NOx.

Make sure its not running lean. Lean A/F ratio increases NOx. The fact that CO and HC are low may indicate its on the lean side.

Close the plate in the Borla. All the exhaust will exit on the left side.
Wat
I did totally opposite!
I ran the Car for a while with A/C so engine would warm and CAT (Single) is warm / correct operating Temp also.
So I will close the Plate out on borla!
I guess I can run a Hyper Tech Scan Tool to monitor the EGR function. See if it is down what it does

Kevin Blown 95 TA; Cat is MAC 94-95 Hi-flow CAT. I do not have an acess to STOCK CATs and Headers.
PCM is programed by PCM for less
Sinice you have mention Carbon been build .... Will Seafoam will help ? (Run Seafoam through the top end via vacuum line (hoping to clean out the EGR system?!) + Oil filler and Fuel Tank ?

You think I would need this ?
Freash Oil ? 87 Oct Gas ?
Old Jun 19, 2010 | 09:40 PM
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I wouldn't do the seafoam thing. I never personally used it but there were a lot of posts about people having trouble after running that through their engine. Maybe make a good interstate run before emissions test though. In the olden days, we would route the windshield washer tube into the carburetor and inject water under load and it would knock all the carbon off the pistons. We also did this at a dyno shop I worked at where we tuned for emissionswhile the cars were on the rollers we squirted a water mist into the carb, and afterwards they always idled a lot more smoothly. Not saying this is your problem, though.

My car used to have a random high flow cat. I failed emissions the first year with it, twice. I put the stock cat back on and got 20x lower HC, 10x lower CO and 2x lower NOX, so then it passed. Guy who owned an emissions shop clued me in on this when I asked for help. Some guys pass just fine with aftermarket cats, but platinum, rhodium, and palladium are expensive, and the aftermarkets do not have as much as the stock cats do - they really don't work as well. There are OEM replacements made by Walker, Brown and some other companies which are almost as good as stock, though, if you get in a jam and it doesn't turn out to be something else.

You should test your EGR and take it apart if necessary to check for carbon clogging - it isn't enough just to verify that it is being activated by the PCM.
Old Jun 19, 2010 | 10:14 PM
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Lightbulb

Originally Posted by Kevin Blown 95 TA
You should test your EGR and take it apart if necessary to check for carbon clogging - it isn't enough just to verify that it is being activated by the PCM.
I guess I can unbolt the EGR ( I hate doing it)
Its difficult can't see etc etc........
I wonder what is socket Size (Where is shoebox's page)
I also think putting a 94 Oct gas from sunoco 94 gas is a bad idea.
I need to ..... put back a LT1 Knock Module ??? cause I have headers LT4 RR etc..... so It would create a Knock ? retartd the timming ?
Right now I am using LT4 Knock Module
Also what you think off that CRC
Old Jun 20, 2010 | 01:26 AM
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The nuts on the EGR valve are 1/2". Some people use a 13mm wrench. You also have to check the vacuum system for the EGR. Start at the intake manfiold, and make sure the vacuum line to the EGR vacuum solenoid is not cracked and holds a vacuum. Ditto with the line from the vacuum solenoid to the egr valve. Then with the engine running at idle, activate the EGR vacuum solenoid (pull harness connector off, 12V to one pin on the solenoid, ground to the other pin) and the engine should start running rough and probably stall, indicating that you do have EGR flow when the solenoid activates.

The octane of the fuel is not important. I'd avoid a heavilly oxygenated fuel, because the last thing tou want is more oxygen to make more NOx.
Old Jun 20, 2010 | 10:59 PM
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I drove about 150 Miles today, I was keeping an Eye on EGR via Scantool through Hypertech. It did show 100 % EGR duty cycle when ever it kicked on. (Odd I was thinking it wolud show 30-40- or 60% not 100 % all the time) So I know PCM is commencing the EGR. I was driving about 65 Mph in 6th gear around 16 or 17 hundread RPM.So I know Criteria is meeting. Next stop is, to find out; if EGR is actually kicking in or not as Fred has mention (Thanks)
Old Jun 21, 2010 | 09:11 PM
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As fred said I have push the EGR diaphragm I did notice stumble IDLE like it is about to die and very rough idle.
Vacum lines visally looks ok.
Only thing is left to see if actuall EGR may have clogged up with Carbon or some thing ???? Cause it does act rough when I push the EGR diaphragm back.
Does Hi-Flow cats go bad if they been not used for a while ?
or If Roller Rocker not align properly ?
Also fred where would you suggest for me to start, to find about Air Pump Mil code ?
Fuse ? Relay ?
Thanks
One more thing 3 years ago my car did 380 PPM NOX
It is so odd to jump up so high! isn't it ?
********
I have notice where I have a CAT (94-95 Style) there is a leak
Would that reduce the back pressure enough to EGR to kick in even the PCM is trying to kicked in ?

Last edited by Mir Hussain; Jun 21, 2010 at 10:04 PM. Reason: More info
Old Jun 22, 2010 | 05:25 AM
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Did you check the fuse for the AIR pump. Suggested cause in my first post.
Old Jun 22, 2010 | 11:59 AM
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Lightbulb nope

Originally Posted by Injuneer
Did you check the fuse for the AIR pump. Suggested cause in my first post.
No will do it
Old Jun 22, 2010 | 04:10 PM
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Question

Fred or Any body who knows this;
if PCM commencing the EGR and it is kicking in( odd is only goes 100% or 0%)
does that mean it has enough back pressure for EGR valve to pull in ?
Cause freaking borla plates bolts and MAC Cat bolts are so darn fues it almost impossiable for me to move. I really do not want to do it; unless I have it
Thank you Guys
I do appericate you all's help
Old Jun 23, 2010 | 05:29 AM
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The PCM runs a test to determine if there is actual EGR flow when the valve is operated. If you did not have adequate flow (as evidence by the anticipated change in MAP) you would get code P0400.

The 96/97 EGR valve has a problem with low backpressure. But if its passing the diagnostic test, there is adequate flow.
Old Jul 1, 2010 | 12:29 PM
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Lightbulb

I didn't get a chance to clean the EGR Valve ( I would need help, How to take it out and clean it). I know it takes 14 mm or so, and it is driver side, closer to firewall.
Any rate I got most of the leaks and block off plate on it.
Howeve it was NOT enough to pass the NOX. It has droped the 100 PPM. Which is 500.
I need to bring down to 395 or lower.
I guess I need to figure out how to clean the EGR valve, but off course I need to remove it first
Any tricks to how to take it from 96 LT1 (Manual) I think shoebox site say 2 14 mm bolts ? Pic

Last edited by Mir Hussain; Jul 1, 2010 at 12:59 PM. Reason: Has to fix Typo
Old Jul 1, 2010 | 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Mir Hussain
I didn't get a chance to clean the EGR Valve ( I would need help, How to take it out and clean it). I know it takes 14 mm or so, and it is driver side, closer to firewall.
Any rate I got most of the leaks and block off plate on it.
Howeve it was enough to pass the NOX. It has droped the 100 PPM. Which is 500.
I need to bring down to 395 or lower.
I guess I need to figure out how to clean the EGR valve, but off course I need to remove it first
Any tricks to how to take it from 96 LT1 (Manual) I think shoebox site say 2 14 mm bolts ? Pic
Huh???????????

Your original post says your first test was 596ppm, and the "pass" value is 396ppm.

Now you are saying that "..it was enough to pass the NOX. It has droped (sic) the 100 PPM. Which is 500."

Then you say, although it passed, you need to bring it down to 396ppm. It appears that it failed the second test.



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