Warning: Bad Deal With Advanced Induction
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 136
From: Baton Rouge, La
Warning: Bad Deal With Advanced Induction
WARNING TO THOSE WHO PLAN TO DO BUSINESS WITH ADVANCED INDUCTION!!!
I have been thinking about wether to post my experience or not. I feel that some people need to be warned. Recently, I attempted to complete a business deal with Phil at Advanced Induction. I mailed my deposit of 950 dollars to him at the end of December 2002. He confirmed the payment on the 5th of January 2003. After a couple excuses about his computer being down he told me that my heads should be shipped out by Monday February 10th. I called around Thursday February 6th and got an email Friday the 7th saying that a team from Michigan invaded his shop setting him back 6 days or so (that should make shipping be around the 16th, right? WRONG). February 24 I got another email about why he has not responded to my email, reason being his computer was down again. Also, Phil told me that another team took over his shop for 8 days, he was waiting on parts, and had a tree fall on his car (what the tree had to do with this is still a mystery to me); Phil said all this would put him an additional 2 weeks behind. I emailed him back and asked for a date that the heads would be in the mail, he told me, "Assuming parts show up by Tuesday or so of next week, I figure I
could ship something by the 2nd week in march." After numerous calls without a return call Phil told me on the 12th of March that he goes to the shop late at night so the phone does not bother him. Finally I had all the information I needed on the 14th. On Monday I sent the balance overnight through Fed Ex.
After I sent the payment I asked Phil to consider that due to his setback dyno tuning would cost me an extra 200 bucks. I told him that I didn't think I should absorb the cost all on my own since I did everything I could to insure a timely delivery. Tuesday the 18th of March (remember I mailed my deposit last year), Phil implied that I couldn't be satisfied and refunded my money. My question is, if I was so unhappy with his service why would I send the balance to him IN FULL. I would have been happy with 100 off the total purchase or even just free shipping. I even told him that if he couldn't accomodate me that is fine, I just wanted to get my car back together.
So here are some things (if Phil replies) that he might say about me.
1). I was aware of the time frame it would take.
My reply - This email on 12/14 doesn't say it would take anywhere close to 3 months.
Zack,
Right now we're working extra to try to get everything out a week or
two
early b/c we're wanting to take a full week off for the holidays. I believe that as of this moment, the earliest something could be finished and
shipped out would be Friday the 10th of January, or Monday the 13th depending on when we receive the cores and deposit.
Hope that helped & thanks alot for even considering us!
Take Care,
-Phil
2) I told you how many people were ahead of you.
My reply - No you did not, at least not until midway thru January and you still gave me a tentative turnaround date of February 10th.\
3) I called 10 times in one day.
My reply - YOU HAD ALMOST $1000 OF MY MONEY, YOUR D@** RIGHT I'LL RING THE PHONE OFF THE HOOK. That is what happens when you don't EVER call people back and they start to think they are getting ripped off.
4) I am unsatisfiable.
My reply - Nothing is father from the truth. I asked him to consider my position, which he didn't attempt to negotiate, just refund my money.
Throughout this whole deal I talked to Phil once, left numerous messages and never had a call returned. I would not recommend this vender to anyone, as far as my experience with Advanced Induction. I would rather do business with Muscle Motors.
I have been thinking about wether to post my experience or not. I feel that some people need to be warned. Recently, I attempted to complete a business deal with Phil at Advanced Induction. I mailed my deposit of 950 dollars to him at the end of December 2002. He confirmed the payment on the 5th of January 2003. After a couple excuses about his computer being down he told me that my heads should be shipped out by Monday February 10th. I called around Thursday February 6th and got an email Friday the 7th saying that a team from Michigan invaded his shop setting him back 6 days or so (that should make shipping be around the 16th, right? WRONG). February 24 I got another email about why he has not responded to my email, reason being his computer was down again. Also, Phil told me that another team took over his shop for 8 days, he was waiting on parts, and had a tree fall on his car (what the tree had to do with this is still a mystery to me); Phil said all this would put him an additional 2 weeks behind. I emailed him back and asked for a date that the heads would be in the mail, he told me, "Assuming parts show up by Tuesday or so of next week, I figure I
could ship something by the 2nd week in march." After numerous calls without a return call Phil told me on the 12th of March that he goes to the shop late at night so the phone does not bother him. Finally I had all the information I needed on the 14th. On Monday I sent the balance overnight through Fed Ex.
After I sent the payment I asked Phil to consider that due to his setback dyno tuning would cost me an extra 200 bucks. I told him that I didn't think I should absorb the cost all on my own since I did everything I could to insure a timely delivery. Tuesday the 18th of March (remember I mailed my deposit last year), Phil implied that I couldn't be satisfied and refunded my money. My question is, if I was so unhappy with his service why would I send the balance to him IN FULL. I would have been happy with 100 off the total purchase or even just free shipping. I even told him that if he couldn't accomodate me that is fine, I just wanted to get my car back together.
So here are some things (if Phil replies) that he might say about me.
1). I was aware of the time frame it would take.
My reply - This email on 12/14 doesn't say it would take anywhere close to 3 months.
Zack,
Right now we're working extra to try to get everything out a week or
two
early b/c we're wanting to take a full week off for the holidays. I believe that as of this moment, the earliest something could be finished and
shipped out would be Friday the 10th of January, or Monday the 13th depending on when we receive the cores and deposit.
Hope that helped & thanks alot for even considering us!
Take Care,
-Phil
2) I told you how many people were ahead of you.
My reply - No you did not, at least not until midway thru January and you still gave me a tentative turnaround date of February 10th.\
3) I called 10 times in one day.
My reply - YOU HAD ALMOST $1000 OF MY MONEY, YOUR D@** RIGHT I'LL RING THE PHONE OFF THE HOOK. That is what happens when you don't EVER call people back and they start to think they are getting ripped off.
4) I am unsatisfiable.
My reply - Nothing is father from the truth. I asked him to consider my position, which he didn't attempt to negotiate, just refund my money.
Throughout this whole deal I talked to Phil once, left numerous messages and never had a call returned. I would not recommend this vender to anyone, as far as my experience with Advanced Induction. I would rather do business with Muscle Motors.
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 786
From: Charlotte, NC
Don't make me post the real emails, Zack. 
Bottom line, you knew you were getting in line to get a big discount, and you knew it'd be awhile.
I wont put up with people literally calling 15-20 times IN AN HOUR.
Finally, you insulted me. So I sent you your $ back.
Upsetting that your mouth cost you alot more $ eh?
There are such things as bad customers, hope you learned something.
Take Care,
-Phil
Bottom line, you knew you were getting in line to get a big discount, and you knew it'd be awhile.
I wont put up with people literally calling 15-20 times IN AN HOUR.
Finally, you insulted me. So I sent you your $ back.
Upsetting that your mouth cost you alot more $ eh?
There are such things as bad customers, hope you learned something.
Take Care,
-Phil
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 869
From: Houston, TX
Doesn't sound like fun...for the both of you I wouldn't want to wait several months without my cores and $1000, however, if you knew it was going to take ~3 months for a discount than there shouldn't be a big deal. If he really was calling that many times in 1 hour than obviously he thought he was going to get them sooner. Unfortunately, the customer is always right, especially when they're down $1000 and no heads
I wouldn't want to wait several months without my cores and $1000, however, if you knew it was going to take ~3 months for a discount than there shouldn't be a big deal. If he really was calling that many times in 1 hour than obviously he thought he was going to get them sooner. Unfortunately, the customer is always right, especially when they're down $1000 and no heads
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,325
From: BC
Originally posted by pennys58
Doesn't sound like fun...for the both of you I wouldn't want to wait several months without my cores and $1000, however, if you knew it was going to take ~3 months for a discount than there shouldn't be a big deal. If he really was calling that many times in 1 hour than obviously he thought he was going to get them sooner. Unfortunately, the customer is always right, especially when they're down $1000 and no heads
Doesn't sound like fun...for the both of you
I wouldn't want to wait several months without my cores and $1000, however, if you knew it was going to take ~3 months for a discount than there shouldn't be a big deal. If he really was calling that many times in 1 hour than obviously he thought he was going to get them sooner. Unfortunately, the customer is always right, especially when they're down $1000 and no heads
The customer IS always right, and unfortunatly it looks like phil had no choice if he was giving it at a rock bottom price to begin with... Just bad circumstances for both partys, yet probably the best thing to do would have been to come straigth up with a date to expect it by, meet it or if the customer doesnt agree with that just say you can't make the order and are going to send the money right back. I've found a lot of times working with mechanics or parts shops you often don't get stellar service, not because theyre trying to rip you off or anything but probably because the job involves a lot of moving around and doing things with people coming in and out all day... and its easy to forget about things and get side tracked =/
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 869
From: Houston, TX
Yeah, unfortunately that is the way it goes in the service industry. Especially when you're dealing with hi performance upgrades. Speed to me is like being an alcoholic...I've got to have it in the morning, afternoon, and evenning...and I'm always wanting more potent doses of it. I also agree on a date being set from the get go. In the industry, stuff always happens and can often times be expected. However, when you're dealing with such a vital part of the performance arena...I think often times the customer can become a little more impatient than usual. Still...$1000+no heads=no fun
First bad thing I've heard of advanced induction, I'd be pissed too
Moderator
Joined: Dec 1969
Posts: 10,745
From: Buffalo, New York
Sounds like your are not being realistic. A shop can't make the parts come any faster. Jobs in front of yours have to take precedence. Various other s**t happens. No shop can promise your custom work in a set time, they can just give a good faith estimate based on a realistic scenario (parts come as expected, no equipment breaks down, no one gets sick or has to take time off, etc.). A friend has a shop with two employees besides himself. What do you think happens when someone gets sick? Things slow dramatically. The possibilites are many, but all combine to make it difficult/impossible to give a strict deadline.
Sounds like the shop dealt with this well. As soon as it was clear that he couldn't make you happy, he sent your money back. The tone of your post was so negative I thought that it was going to end up with a claim that you had been "ripped off". Once I read that you have your money, and (I assume) your cores, I thought "what's his beef?"
And just a work of advice, the longer someone spends on the phone, the less time they are working. So if you are dealing with a small shop, don't bug them unnecessarily on the phone.
Rich Krause
Sounds like the shop dealt with this well. As soon as it was clear that he couldn't make you happy, he sent your money back. The tone of your post was so negative I thought that it was going to end up with a claim that you had been "ripped off". Once I read that you have your money, and (I assume) your cores, I thought "what's his beef?"
And just a work of advice, the longer someone spends on the phone, the less time they are working. So if you are dealing with a small shop, don't bug them unnecessarily on the phone.
Rich Krause
Registered User
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 1,697
From: Petersham, MA
Originally posted by rskrause
Sounds like your are not being realistic.
Sounds like your are not being realistic.
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 586
From: Oklahoma City, OK
96blackbeast - Sorry to hear about your problems. I hope things workout OK for you. I personally had a good transaction with Phil and wouldn't think twice about using him again. Keep in mind that sometimes things happen that can't be controlled. I'm sure Phil was trying as hard as he could to get the job done (and done right).
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,433
From: Akron, Ohio
Well, i've never dealt with Phil but a buddy of mine recently had some headwork done and was happy with the service. You have to figure that this guy is hand porting (I believe?) these cores. How many of you out there have ever ported or even worked with aluminum? I used to hand finish aluminum tire molds for companies, sipes, casting cracks, radiusing, etc... it's not quick work. Takes a lot of time to get a good finished product. If Phil is hand finishing these cores you have to give him some time, I'm sure your not the only one that he's working for. Sounds like a classic case of misinformation or lack of communication to me. Hope everything works out in the end for you.
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 64
From: Raleigh, NC
Sorry to hear that...I waited a long time for mine also, but that was because there were plenty of people ahead of me. I am with dark on this one, sounds like miscommunication on both parts. I do think that calling 20 times a day is a little over kill.
Phil worked with me on every question i had, even meet me in charlotte so I could pick the heads up. He is a good guy and would never think about screwing anyone out of their money.
The business he is in takes precedents over the heads he does on the side, so you have to take that into consideration.
I would recommend AI to anyone looking for some awesome stock ported heads....I love mine, and when it comes time again to have some head work done, they are going right to him....
Buss
Phil worked with me on every question i had, even meet me in charlotte so I could pick the heads up. He is a good guy and would never think about screwing anyone out of their money.
The business he is in takes precedents over the heads he does on the side, so you have to take that into consideration.
I would recommend AI to anyone looking for some awesome stock ported heads....I love mine, and when it comes time again to have some head work done, they are going right to him....
Buss
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 45
From: Gonzales, Louisiana
Hi everyone,
Im new in here.
96blackbeast thank you for posting this warning. I was thinking about ordering some heads from this guy, thats why I came over here to get aholt to him. But now I think Ill look somewhere else for some heads. I also know a few more people that were thinking about ordering from him also. Ill pass this info over to them and Im positive they will look somewhere else also.
Thanks again man.
Im new in here.
96blackbeast thank you for posting this warning. I was thinking about ordering some heads from this guy, thats why I came over here to get aholt to him. But now I think Ill look somewhere else for some heads. I also know a few more people that were thinking about ordering from him also. Ill pass this info over to them and Im positive they will look somewhere else also.
Thanks again man.
Registered User
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 415
From: Raleigh, NC
Well, it kinda goes like this...
I know two people, Eric (IRABuss) and Adam (ABeasst) that have doen business with AI. I saw both sets of ported heads, the work was top notch. There is nothing wrong with the quality of this guy's work, that is for sure.
However, Phil and Allen run this AI thing on the side, it is not a full blown large operation along the lines of MTI, ARE, or Speed Inc, etc. From what I understand, AI is a side/hobby business run out of the shop that employs Phil and Allen. This shop's bread and butter business is building race motors for Winston Cup and Trans Am teams. It is not the team itself that "invades" Phil's shop, it is the business that takes precedence over Phil's street AI stuff. It even says so on Phil's site that the work he does, and the amount of it, can depend on the season. During race season, I would almost expect a delay or two if I sent Phil some work.
This means that on some occasions, you just might have to bear with this guy. His shop is not going to put building a $50,000 Trans Am motor on hold just so they can get your $1000 set of ported LT1 heads to you a couple days sooner. It's simple economics. And I beleive that Phil's prices reflect that. From what I have seen, he is substantially cheaper than comparable (or not comparable, depanding on whom you ask) stuff from MTI, TEA, and several other big shops. And on more than one occasion, I have seen Phil's stuff make better numbers than stuff from the "big" shops, even under less than ideal conditions and tuning.
I would (and may, in the future) do business with AI. But if I do, I will send my cores and money to them with the awareness that Phil probably does not own the shop he works in. And the owner of this shop, and the shop itself, may have bigger fish to fry.
It's not that I am saying Phil does not consider the customer important, its just the fact that he may not always have complete control of the situation, and the situation may be altered or delayed by events and priorities beyond his control.
Hey, Zack, at least he refunded your money, it appears that you got a whole lot better treatment than I've heard about from several other shops.
I know two people, Eric (IRABuss) and Adam (ABeasst) that have doen business with AI. I saw both sets of ported heads, the work was top notch. There is nothing wrong with the quality of this guy's work, that is for sure.
However, Phil and Allen run this AI thing on the side, it is not a full blown large operation along the lines of MTI, ARE, or Speed Inc, etc. From what I understand, AI is a side/hobby business run out of the shop that employs Phil and Allen. This shop's bread and butter business is building race motors for Winston Cup and Trans Am teams. It is not the team itself that "invades" Phil's shop, it is the business that takes precedence over Phil's street AI stuff. It even says so on Phil's site that the work he does, and the amount of it, can depend on the season. During race season, I would almost expect a delay or two if I sent Phil some work.
This means that on some occasions, you just might have to bear with this guy. His shop is not going to put building a $50,000 Trans Am motor on hold just so they can get your $1000 set of ported LT1 heads to you a couple days sooner. It's simple economics. And I beleive that Phil's prices reflect that. From what I have seen, he is substantially cheaper than comparable (or not comparable, depanding on whom you ask) stuff from MTI, TEA, and several other big shops. And on more than one occasion, I have seen Phil's stuff make better numbers than stuff from the "big" shops, even under less than ideal conditions and tuning.
I would (and may, in the future) do business with AI. But if I do, I will send my cores and money to them with the awareness that Phil probably does not own the shop he works in. And the owner of this shop, and the shop itself, may have bigger fish to fry.
It's not that I am saying Phil does not consider the customer important, its just the fact that he may not always have complete control of the situation, and the situation may be altered or delayed by events and priorities beyond his control.
Hey, Zack, at least he refunded your money, it appears that you got a whole lot better treatment than I've heard about from several other shops.