Very disappointed with Flowmaster
02-19-2003, 01:10 PM
#46
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Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Indiana
Posts: 587
I have asked a couple of times for those with negative comments about Flowmaster to show some numbers backing up their claims that they are restrictive. No one has ever done more than talk. I have measured flow restriction on a 50 series and it was quite low, but I don't know about the 80 series cross flow. Nothing flows as well as a straight pipe or straight through muffler, but the Flowmaster will not increase restriction over stock.
Amen brother.
So far all I have seen are people saying they don't like the sound, and jumping on a discussion board bandwagon rumor that a Flowmaster muffler will cost you power.
02-19-2003, 01:24 PM
#47
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Join Date: Dec 1998
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 670
Originally posted by nateh
I have asked a couple of times for those with negative comments about Flowmaster to show some numbers backing up their claims that they are restrictive. No one has ever done more than talk. I have measured flow restriction on a 50 series and it was quite low, but I don't know about the 80 series cross flow. Nothing flows as well as a straight pipe or straight through muffler, but the Flowmaster will not increase restriction over stock. Amen brother.
I have asked a couple of times for those with negative comments about Flowmaster to show some numbers backing up their claims that they are restrictive. No one has ever done more than talk. I have measured flow restriction on a 50 series and it was quite low, but I don't know about the 80 series cross flow. Nothing flows as well as a straight pipe or straight through muffler, but the Flowmaster will not increase restriction over stock. Amen brother.
-Chris
02-19-2003, 01:30 PM
#48
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Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 711
I have the 80 Series on my car and my buddy has it on his 95 Z28 also. Tips make a world of difference, he is running stock Z28 squares and I am running WS6 ovals.
He tried the supplied generic Flowmaster tails and it droned like crazy, so he went back to the stock tailpipes and tips.
Maybe it's because we are using stock (2 1/4) tailpipes but I think they both sound awesome and there is virtually no drone.
He tried the supplied generic Flowmaster tails and it droned like crazy, so he went back to the stock tailpipes and tips.
Maybe it's because we are using stock (2 1/4) tailpipes but I think they both sound awesome and there is virtually no drone.
02-20-2003, 03:26 AM
#50
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Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: NE philadelphia pa, FOX CHASE
Posts: 236
i have a flowmaster 80 on my 95 z 6spd everyone says it sounds SO good and loud even my girlfriend complains (cause we can't ever go anywhere with out people hearing my car ),(I HATE COPS,dam **** blockers) but i don't think its loud ehought so i got some hooker super com. shortie headers now they add alot of power i expected to get louder but no it didn't happen i think i when quieter mostly at idie but i think when i get on its it is a little bit more throtty but its add alot of hp feels so much faster then i want with a high flow cat did a little something not much went through 2 of them already but not im cencerned with my flowmaster i want to sound like a loud mustage that i hear rar by i want to have a better flow and a v12 sound a deep dark v8 sound that ever one want but i don't no it i am as good as it get till i do cam work or if i should get a different one like SLP LM are they really louder??, Borla (way too much $$$),Magnaflow, Hooker,Hooker aerochamber, MAC, Dynomax, and a couple others .
i don't have turndowns i have like a 4" pipe out the bumper on each side but......BUT i wanna try the borla tips duels-duels-intercooler
well every body get back to me and tell me what you think i should do or change your help and input will be very thankful
i don't have turndowns i have like a 4" pipe out the bumper on each side but......BUT i wanna try the borla tips duels-duels-intercooler
well every body get back to me and tell me what you think i should do or change your help and input will be very thankful
02-20-2003, 05:26 AM
#51
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Winston Salem, NC
Posts: 956
I remember that Mustang article, and I don't remember Flowmaster being the worst or even close...in fact heres another one to back that up:
http://www.allfordmustangs.com/Detailed/70.shtml
If you look, the Flowmaster was 5th in a lineup of 10 for best ET. That seems pretty decent to me, and the sound out of them is killer. Once again I challange anyone to provide real proof that Flowmaster mufflers are more restrictive than stock, or will lose much ET over other mufflers.
http://www.allfordmustangs.com/Detailed/70.shtml
If you look, the Flowmaster was 5th in a lineup of 10 for best ET. That seems pretty decent to me, and the sound out of them is killer. Once again I challange anyone to provide real proof that Flowmaster mufflers are more restrictive than stock, or will lose much ET over other mufflers.
Last edited by magius231; 02-20-2003 at 05:48 AM.
02-20-2003, 08:47 AM
#52
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 1998
Location: Flower Mound, TX USA
Posts: 334
Re: Very disappointed with Flowmaster
[i]I had a 93 LT1 formula with a single OTL exhaust and it sounded awesome, not quite as loud as this flowmaster but a way better, gurgly sound. Can anyone suggest a slightly quieter, but better, more throaty sounding muffler? The stock one I couldn't hear at all. BTW its a 97 SS.
[/B]
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02-20-2003, 09:26 AM
#53
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 480
i didnt read through all 4 pages nor do i intend to, so i dont know if this has already been said or not.
to the original poster, i kept hearing you say that you didnt want to get a full cat-back b/c you already have 3in pipe. well, theres a couple of things.
first, i thought the same thing until i got my SLP loudmouth. then, i took a piece of the stock pipe from the cats on back, and was able to put it in the SLP pipe and there was actually plenty of room. i would say about a 1/4 in. around. which would lead me to believe that the factory pipe is not 3in, but rather 2 3/4 or 2 1/2 with the dual tips from the muffler being 2 1/4 stock. the SLP cat-back was supposed to be 3in from the cat on back, and 2 1/2in tips. REGARDLESS, the SLP piping WAS BIGGER than the stock pipe. even if only by a 1/4 in, thats still an improvment.
second, the bends in the pipe have alot to do with the flow/performance of the exhaust. there are basically two major types of bends- one is just a regular bend that ends up putting crinkles in your pipe (dont know the name for those bends); and the second is called mandrel bent(sp). mandrel bent pipe has NO crinkles in your bends and therefore dosent restrict the flow at all. the factory exhaust is pretty good about NOT having the crinkled exhaust for the most part on our cars. i think the only place i saw a crinkled bend was on the pipe that goes over the axle. the SLP is all mandrel bent. also, how many bends is also an issue. i know on my SLP there are a total of three bends in all. with the stock pipe, youve got those 3, plus the duals have kind of a "S" shape to them.
hope this helps a little!
as far as Flowmaster, the only experience i had with their mufflers was good. i picked up .4 over open exhaust. i have nothing but good things to say about them
jon
to the original poster, i kept hearing you say that you didnt want to get a full cat-back b/c you already have 3in pipe. well, theres a couple of things.
first, i thought the same thing until i got my SLP loudmouth. then, i took a piece of the stock pipe from the cats on back, and was able to put it in the SLP pipe and there was actually plenty of room. i would say about a 1/4 in. around. which would lead me to believe that the factory pipe is not 3in, but rather 2 3/4 or 2 1/2 with the dual tips from the muffler being 2 1/4 stock. the SLP cat-back was supposed to be 3in from the cat on back, and 2 1/2in tips. REGARDLESS, the SLP piping WAS BIGGER than the stock pipe. even if only by a 1/4 in, thats still an improvment.
second, the bends in the pipe have alot to do with the flow/performance of the exhaust. there are basically two major types of bends- one is just a regular bend that ends up putting crinkles in your pipe (dont know the name for those bends); and the second is called mandrel bent(sp). mandrel bent pipe has NO crinkles in your bends and therefore dosent restrict the flow at all. the factory exhaust is pretty good about NOT having the crinkled exhaust for the most part on our cars. i think the only place i saw a crinkled bend was on the pipe that goes over the axle. the SLP is all mandrel bent. also, how many bends is also an issue. i know on my SLP there are a total of three bends in all. with the stock pipe, youve got those 3, plus the duals have kind of a "S" shape to them.
hope this helps a little!
as far as Flowmaster, the only experience i had with their mufflers was good. i picked up .4 over open exhaust. i have nothing but good things to say about them jon
Last edited by COMNBYU; 02-20-2003 at 09:29 AM.
02-20-2003, 01:41 PM
#54
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 1998
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 197
I have no cat, hooker LT and a flowmaster muffler. I've had that setup for years, but I really hate it...
The car is extremly loud, but this is not the main issue; around 2000-2500 the exhaust resonates with a tin-can sound. It sounds like firecrackers in a coffee can. Otherwise it sounds great, it sounds like an old muscle car and idle and high rpms sound very good. But that 2000-2500 rpm honda like sound... I just hate it.
I am thinking about putting a quiet restrictive muffler and put an electric cut-out.
The car is extremly loud, but this is not the main issue; around 2000-2500 the exhaust resonates with a tin-can sound. It sounds like firecrackers in a coffee can. Otherwise it sounds great, it sounds like an old muscle car and idle and high rpms sound very good. But that 2000-2500 rpm honda like sound... I just hate it.
I am thinking about putting a quiet restrictive muffler and put an electric cut-out.
02-20-2003, 02:43 PM
#55
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 711
Most of the people who complain about Drone and tin can sound have no cat. converters.....Hmmmmmm
A little off topic but, The Borla exhausts for the Mustangs on that link could quite possibly be the dumbest looking exhaust I have ever seen. 2.25 pipe with a 8 inch long 3.50 inch tip that is clearly visible from the side Ha, Ha.........
A little off topic but, The Borla exhausts for the Mustangs on that link could quite possibly be the dumbest looking exhaust I have ever seen. 2.25 pipe with a 8 inch long 3.50 inch tip that is clearly visible from the side Ha, Ha.........
02-20-2003, 02:59 PM
#56
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Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: $#&!@$
Posts: 151
I recently bought an American Thunder Flowmaster for my 94 Z and it sounds awesome to me, took out my cats and put some ceramic coated MACs all at the same time. I noticed a big difference in gains. I noticed some people talk about the backfiring, everyone is probably talking about that popping when letting off the gas and winding down from a high rpm.....this is the back pressure from the firing orders, usually the best solution is to put an X pipe in and it will relieve that pressure. My set up sounds awesome, and never had problems with mine.
02-20-2003, 03:42 PM
#57
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Winston Salem, NC
Posts: 956
I am going to try to do a dual exhaust/Flowmaster 40's on my car soon...I'll let you all know what happens
And I agree about the Borla...I think that whole pipe expanding at the end thing is really ugly.
And I agree about the Borla...I think that whole pipe expanding at the end thing is really ugly.
02-20-2003, 03:50 PM
#58
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 438
If you are NOT running a cat, have a Flowmaster muffler, and don't like the notorious drone, have a large diameter bullet muffler welded in where your cat went. No restriction, and it takes care of the popping. Remember, there is NO sound deadening material in a Flowmaster muffler, so it's natural that you'll get resonance.
02-20-2003, 06:19 PM
#59
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 1998
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 197
besides adding some restriction, is it possible to change the resonnance range? possibly by having a soft section in the exhaust pipe, like some trucks do, etc?
the obvious way is to have a really short pipe to raise the frequency at which it resonnates, but it may not be ideal
the obvious way is to have a really short pipe to raise the frequency at which it resonnates, but it may not be ideal
02-20-2003, 07:14 PM
#60
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Indiana
Posts: 587
The elevated noise in the cruising range is one of the natural characteristics of this engine and pipe configuration. The OEM muffler was tuned to attenuate the noise in exactly that frequency. Keep in mind that the exhaust was tuned as a system, including any catalysts. Change any part (muffler or catalyst), and you risk changing the frequency at which the tuning happens. Most aftermarket systems aren't tuned for any range, they just give general noise reduction, so you are going to hear the natural periods in the noise characteristics.
Adding a resonator upstream will change the characteristics and will generally help. Just make sure it is a real resonator with a perforated tube in the center of an enclosed volume. Packed ones will help acoustically more than those without packing, but either is better than nothing.
I don't know to what you refer when you talk about "a really short pipe to raise the frequency at which it resonates." Longer pipes after silencing units help acoustically much more than short pipes. The ideal length would correspond to the quarter-wave frequency of the noise you want to attenuate.
Adding a resonator upstream will change the characteristics and will generally help. Just make sure it is a real resonator with a perforated tube in the center of an enclosed volume. Packed ones will help acoustically more than those without packing, but either is better than nothing.
I don't know to what you refer when you talk about "a really short pipe to raise the frequency at which it resonates." Longer pipes after silencing units help acoustically much more than short pipes. The ideal length would correspond to the quarter-wave frequency of the noise you want to attenuate.