Hey everyone I was thinking about replacing my edelbrock shorty headers for some pacesetter L/Ts.

I was wondering if it would be worth it and what gains i could potentially see.

Right now with my ported lt1 heads CC503 cam and other mods this is my best time slip

1/8mile
8.49s
83mph
1.9 60ft street tires.

Could my shorty headers be hurting my performance?

 

I'd recommend addressing any suspension issues first. a 1.9s 60-ft time seems to indicate that you're aren't getting the power to the ground. Work on getting that number down to 1.6s or so. You might need some suspension upgrades to do it....

 

What suspension upgrades would I need? I have Tubular upper and Lower control arms up front and a strut tower brace. Subframe connectors, Lower control arms in the rear.

I think its the tires that are killing my 60ft. Can barely launch it. I tried to launch it at over 3000rpm and there is 0 traction. just some Nexen 275's.

wondering more about the headers,

 

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A few articles. Comes down to LT always seem to perform better.

 

Think my shorties could be hindering my ported heads and Cam, like choking it because of all the extra air but not able to push it out?

 

Well honestly I never went from Shorties to Long tubes. I added a cam, ported the heads and added long tubes so I cant really offer "Real World Experience." I can tell you from "stock" to now is one HELL of a difference lol

But from all the research I've done, Long Tubes will be more efficient at their job than Shorties. More efficient in my opinion = more airflow. Will you gain 1 hp/TQ or 10 HP/TQ or even none at all? I honestly couldn't tell ya but that third article I posted was Dyno results from homemade "shorties" (although they were closer to Mids) to Long Tubes and there WAS an increase in power.

 

I knw you were really looking to see the difference between he two...I was just pointing out that power isn't your issue...the launch is. I forget the old rule of thumb but it was something like 10ponies is worth 0.1s. If you could launch better and shave off a tenth or two you'd get more than you'd gain with the header swap. Additionally, if you can't launch now adding power isn't going to help at all.......

Unless you're going after a bigger HP number work on your launch....maybe invest in drag radials. They're way easier to install than headers.....

 

The track time doesnt bother me to much, I was just posting the time so you could see where the car is at. I know that drag radials would drop the time and help with the launch to get the power to the ground but i dont want to bust the rear end. Its more of a street car anyway.

I was mostly wondering if the shorty headers could hinder and choke my Heads and Cam swap.

What would be a better comparison is my setup before to this.

Before i had ported Heads and the CC503 I had stock heads with a smaller cam, TPIS(something)

Stock heads Smaller Cam, stock rocker arms best timeslip (shorty headers)
8.60 1/8 mile
79mph
1.9 60ft street tires

Ported heads/manifold CC503 1.6 rockers best timeslip (shorty headers)
8.49 1/8 mile
83mph
1.9 60ft street tires

 

Ok, I guess you just missed my point.....what difference does it make if the headers are choking the engine a small amount if you couldn't use the power you could find?

Anyway, there was a horsepower tv episode on very recently that compared shorties to long tubes. There wasn't much difference on a lightly modded engine, like yours, but would be as the horsepower level increases. It does change the shape of the power curve...

Have a good one....

 

No, I understood your point which was addressing the launching issue with drag radials and suspension for a better track time. But I'm not concerned with my track time I already know I need drag radials if I'm gonna do better at the track. I only posted the time as a reference.

I was mainly asking if the LTs would help my H/C setup run better, because it seems like I lose power up top and was wondering if the shorties are causing that.

Thanks for the help though bw hunter.

 

There is a guy on here. " ace " with the cc503 cam 1.6 rockers LT headers on stock heads street tires
His car runs the 1/8@ 88/87mph ..
I don't know much about drag racing but you should be faster!! with the mods in my signature my car runs the 1/8 mile @ 83 mph. my understanding is that good times takes practice ,good air
good track conditions ..What is the elevation at your track?? was the car hot when you made these passes ? what gears are you running in the rear end ? Wish I could help you out more but I very new to this .. looks like you just need to work out the bugs. good luck!!
" But I don't think the problem is in the headers ??? "(LT headers make about 10 more hp)

 

I'm not sure of the elevation. But it was a cool day, not hot and 1 of my first runs. Car seems to run fine I just feel like it slows down at higher rpms. I beat a ls1 on drag tires and my friends ls6 H/C ws6. Could probably use more fine tuning. I only have a mail order tune from madz28. I data logged the car and sent it to him and he said it looked normal, and to do a dyno run to see if I could use further tuning. (Log showed 4degrees of knock retard at WOT which he said was normal for cammed cars.)

Gears are stock 3.23 I plan on getting some longtubes soon anyway.

 

Tell us the track location, and we can look up the elevation.

What is the diameter of the Edelbrock primaries - 1-5/8? Is it a step design - first couple inches of the primary smaller diameter? Do they have "anti-reversion" baffles?

I had a set of JBA shorties, with 1-5/8" primaries, a 1-1/2" step at the flange, and a small weld bead for anti-reversion, and they produced excellent low end torque. But they really choked what was basically a stock engine with a few bolt-ons. 5,000 RPM and up it felt like somebody stuffed a potato in the exhaust pipe........

 

The track is called Texas Raceway, its in kennedale if your in TX. I'm not sure of the measurements on my edelbrocks, they were on the car when I got it. I'll see if I can look up what they are. They are the emissions legal type

Edit: can't find any retailers that sell the shorties I have, just posts about them and private sellers. But everything reads 1 5/8

 

I think Edelbrock discontinued them. Most shorties seem to be 1-5/8". The risk with larger primaries on a moderate HP engine is loss of scavenging velocity at low RPM, which reduces HP. But with well ported heads and a cam, I don't think you would have problems with 1-3/4" primaries. A "step" design uses the smaller diameter of the first couple inches of the primary to keep velocity high, and minimize low end losses.

In theory, the longer tubes will promote better low end torque, but may cause an increase in pressure loss at high RPM. I suspect that if you could find come 1-3/4" long tubes with a 1-5/8" step, you might have the best of both worlds. Hard to quantify though.

Do you have any idea who ported the heads and intake manifold? Do you have flow numbers?