same amount of money on civic and LT1, which one is faster
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 136
From: Baton Rouge, La
shouldn't this be on club si?
Thanks for posting perhaps the worst thread I have ever read in my life, I feel enlightened in the ways of the lost.
There is your prize Letter from Trey
Thanks for posting perhaps the worst thread I have ever read in my life, I feel enlightened in the ways of the lost.
There is your prize Letter from Trey
Banned
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 273
From: Frederick, Maryland USA
Hate to say it, but I just watched a Civic h-back run a 12.9 @ 109 the other day at the track. It wasn't even gutted. It just had an exhaust and a turbo setup, intake on it.
Had some suspension work, carbon fiber hood, aftermarket wheels also. He said he had about $4000 in the car. I don't think he was including the hood, suspension, and wheels though. Probably just the go-fast goodies. The guy was about 18 years old. Whether ya like the car or not, ya can't knock it. It's faster than the "almighty"
LS1.
I about died laughing when some cockyass LS1 owner started laughing the Civic guy out when he pulled to the line, and then Mr.LS1Badass turned around and ran an eyeball popping 13.3x with a lid, exhaust, and some other little mods. It must suck to own an LS1.
As far as money is concerned, you will NEVER be able to lighten up an Fbody as much as that Civic, no matter how hard you try. It's not how much you have, it's how much you DON'T have.
Hypothetically speaking, you could replace a stock LT1's hood with a fiberglass one, remove backseats, sound-deadening material, passenger seat, a/c, carpet, floormats, door panels, radio, spare tire & jack, windshield washer fluid, some lightweight wheels, remove panhards, and everything else, and you still won't be down to a fully-loaded Civic's weight. However, the car will probably lose about 300-400lbs in the process. Your times could easily go from 14.0 to 13.6 just in weight savings (and it's FREE).
You could probably gut a Civic down to about 2000lbs and run close to the same times as a stock LT1, but what you're not realizing is that sooner or later, the extra weight will catch up to you.
I'm not saying the Si would win when all is said and done, but it will certainly have a huge weight advantage which will do wonders for help.
Had some suspension work, carbon fiber hood, aftermarket wheels also. He said he had about $4000 in the car. I don't think he was including the hood, suspension, and wheels though. Probably just the go-fast goodies. The guy was about 18 years old. Whether ya like the car or not, ya can't knock it. It's faster than the "almighty"
LS1.I about died laughing when some cockyass LS1 owner started laughing the Civic guy out when he pulled to the line, and then Mr.LS1Badass turned around and ran an eyeball popping 13.3x with a lid, exhaust, and some other little mods. It must suck to own an LS1.
As far as money is concerned, you will NEVER be able to lighten up an Fbody as much as that Civic, no matter how hard you try. It's not how much you have, it's how much you DON'T have.
Hypothetically speaking, you could replace a stock LT1's hood with a fiberglass one, remove backseats, sound-deadening material, passenger seat, a/c, carpet, floormats, door panels, radio, spare tire & jack, windshield washer fluid, some lightweight wheels, remove panhards, and everything else, and you still won't be down to a fully-loaded Civic's weight. However, the car will probably lose about 300-400lbs in the process. Your times could easily go from 14.0 to 13.6 just in weight savings (and it's FREE).
You could probably gut a Civic down to about 2000lbs and run close to the same times as a stock LT1, but what you're not realizing is that sooner or later, the extra weight will catch up to you.
I'm not saying the Si would win when all is said and done, but it will certainly have a huge weight advantage which will do wonders for help.
Registered User
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,456
From: sarasota, fl
Originally posted by Dan Oldham
but it will certainly have a huge weight advantage which will do wonders for help.
but it will certainly have a huge weight advantage which will do wonders for help.
which is completely negated by the fact that it is FWD and cannot launch for ****, and has no low end torque.
thanks for playing, come back and try again when you gain a basic knowledge of drag racing.
Last edited by got_hp?; Apr 17, 2003 at 09:24 PM.
Banned
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 273
From: Frederick, Maryland USA
Originally posted by got_hp?
which is completely negated by the fact that it is FWD and cannot launch for ****.
thanks for playing, come back and try again when you gain a basic knowledge of drag racing.
which is completely negated by the fact that it is FWD and cannot launch for ****.
thanks for playing, come back and try again when you gain a basic knowledge of drag racing.
Nothing like the typical know-nothing dumb$hits that grace this site. I think you should go to the lounge and hang with the idiots. You'd fit right in. That crowd's just too stupid for me, but they'll fit you well enough.
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 908
Originally posted by BackInBlackZ28
Holy **** i have re-kindled the flame in by far the most amaizing post in cz28 history.
Holy **** i have re-kindled the flame in by far the most amaizing post in cz28 history.
Those we're the most fun threads to trashtalk in. Man I miss those LOL!!!I'm thinking about going and starting one right now.... it's been awfully quiet in here lately
Banned
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,505
From: looking for a flow bench so Brook and I can race
Originally posted by Dan Oldham
Guess what smartass. He pulled a 1.8 60ft. Shows what you know. Come back when you have some common sense. Looks like this fwd could launch.
Nothing like the typical know-nothing dumb$hits that grace this site. I think you should go to the lounge and hang with the idiots. You'd fit right in. That crowd's just too stupid for me, but they'll fit you well enough.
Guess what smartass. He pulled a 1.8 60ft. Shows what you know. Come back when you have some common sense. Looks like this fwd could launch.
Nothing like the typical know-nothing dumb$hits that grace this site. I think you should go to the lounge and hang with the idiots. You'd fit right in. That crowd's just too stupid for me, but they'll fit you well enough.
FWD has serious issues that catch up to you FAST when you start going a bit faster.
Look at any of the fast guys-
they run 10's in the 155mph category
weight isn't realy as big a deal as traction and torque
Registered User
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 439
From: Salem, va
Steve, I am sort of amazed at what I am reading. One that you are prazing nathan kids car? It would be very luck to run deep 14's. A 4 cylinder feels much much faster than it really is. Sure it might outrun a stock lt1 car by a length or two but I know several lt1 cars in this area it wont outrun, or for that matter run anywhere close to. Look at James' civic, he had what 50k dollars in that car and on 30psi it wouldnt break 9's in an 1/8? Look at Marshals Dsm, its going 7.90's on major boost and nitrous, with who knows how much money. No flame intended but just in this area there is more than enough proof on this topic (My bone stock ls1 t/a going 8.40's on street tires). Travis's z28 w/ a blower and a cam going 7.50's. Steve's blown 4v Cobra going 6.80's.
cya
Scott
cya
Scott
Registered User
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 321
From: Syracuse, NY, USA
Originally posted by Dan Oldham
Guess what smartass. He pulled a 1.8 60ft. Shows what you know. Come back when you have some common sense. Looks like this fwd could launch.
Nothing like the typical know-nothing dumb$hits that grace this site. I think you should go to the lounge and hang with the idiots. You'd fit right in. That crowd's just too stupid for me, but they'll fit you well enough.
Guess what smartass. He pulled a 1.8 60ft. Shows what you know. Come back when you have some common sense. Looks like this fwd could launch.
Nothing like the typical know-nothing dumb$hits that grace this site. I think you should go to the lounge and hang with the idiots. You'd fit right in. That crowd's just too stupid for me, but they'll fit you well enough.
Now back to this reply. 1.8 in the 60' is not impressive. It is a accomplishment in a stock, or bolt on, car but not for a leight weight turbo car. When I was running as a bolt on car I ran 12.9's @ 103 to 104 with 1.7's 60'. That was at 3600 lb race weight.
You are comparing a modded Civic to a stock F-body. You say a gutted Civic can run with stock F-body and a turbo'd car can run with a LS1. What happens when the F-body is modded?
Registered User
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,456
From: sarasota, fl
Originally posted by Dan Oldham
Guess what smartass. He pulled a 1.8 60ft. Shows what you know. Come back when you have some common sense. Looks like this fwd could launch.
Nothing like the typical know-nothing dumb$hits that grace this site. I think you should go to the lounge and hang with the idiots. You'd fit right in. That crowd's just too stupid for me, but they'll fit you well enough.
Guess what smartass. He pulled a 1.8 60ft. Shows what you know. Come back when you have some common sense. Looks like this fwd could launch.
Nothing like the typical know-nothing dumb$hits that grace this site. I think you should go to the lounge and hang with the idiots. You'd fit right in. That crowd's just too stupid for me, but they'll fit you well enough.
bwahaha.......im not talking about lame *** 1.8 street tire sixty foots........im talking about sub 1.5 sec tire lifting traction.
fwd sucks for launching, and will never be as good as rwd.
not to mention at high speeds, fwd is less efficient at moving a car than rwd.
so it sucks from a dig, it sucks from a roll, it just plain sucks.
yeah......im the know-nothing dumb$****........thats it........cause i think RWD is better than FWD. hahaha.
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Joined: Dec 1969
Posts: 10,745
From: Buffalo, New York
I've read some of Dan's posts and he's usally pretty reasonable. But that last one is way off base, even for this retarded thread. Yeah, a Civic is lighter than an F-body. BUT IT HAS ~1/3 THE DISPLACEMENT. So, it would need to be ~1/3 the weight to have the same potential as the 4th gen. And that's completely leaving out the FWD v. RWD issue, which really can't be ignored.
Yes, I am well aware that in stock or mildly modded form the Honda motor will have a higher specific output. But once we get into realm of heavy mods, especially forced induction, that advantage is largely neutralized.
Anyway, the original troll was a question about Civic v. LT1 and $10K in mods. It's hard to be very specific in response, because there are so many variables. Questions like: does it have to emissions legal, is a stock block required, must it hold together for more than one run, etc., etc. Different "rules" will have different recipes as optimum performance mods for the hypothetical $10K.
My recipe is based on the assumption that we are talking about a street/strip car. So it has to be drivable and have at least a modicum of longevity. It has to use a stock block and head castings which may be modified. I will also assume that the owner will do all of the basic work themselves and buy new parts. Not knowing much about Civics, I can only address the LT1 in this context. And for $10K, you could make one really fast. How fast? Well, low 10's easy.
Here's the recipe. Start with a light weight M6 F-body coupe. Spend $3K on the drivetrain to get a new rear end, driveshaft, and Street Twin. Spend $1.5K on the shortblock with new pistons and rods, but reuse the stock crank. $2K oughta do for some head work, new cam and valve springs. $2K oughta do it for the fuel system and the 300hp nitrous system. $0.5K gets you some headers. Leaves you $1K for suspension stuff, slicks and misc. Figure 600rwhp and with free weight reduction it should be in the 3,400lb range. Oughta run close to 10sec at >130mph.
What the recipe for a 10sec, 130+mph Civic that uses the stock block and heads, and is streetable (meaning can actually be expected to last a season driven to and from the track)? At 2,200lbs it's gonna take ~450FWHP (LOL) to race with the F-body. And that's making the assumption that it can actually launch with 450hp, which I doubt. Can a stock Civic block handle a 300hp nitrous shot? I really doubt it, the cylinder pressures are awfully high. But even if it can (for a similar price as the LT1 block), what about a drivetrain? What kind of streetable transaxle can you put in a Civic will be up to this? I don't believe it exists at anywhere near the price point needed, but I admit to not being a Civic expert, so enlighten me.
So, you need to tell me the following before you convince me that you can make a Civic into a 10sec street/strip car for $10K.
1. what mods, and at what cost, will allow a stock Civic block and heads to hold together at the 450hp level?
2. what drivetrain mods will allow it to live through a season at the 450hp level?
3. how is the car going to get the traction needed to run a 10sec 1/4 mile through the front wheels?
Three insoluble problems when the $10K limit is considered. The whole thing is ludicrous. If my back hadn't gone out today
moving two full drums of race gas and two of methanol into the shed I wouldn't have spent the last 15minutes thinking about this, it's retarded.
Another retarded thing: why have I spent at least five times $10K getting my car to run that fast if I know so much
*
Rich Krause
*BTW: there is an answer to that question, I am just making fun of myself to pre-empt you guys from doing it.
Yes, I am well aware that in stock or mildly modded form the Honda motor will have a higher specific output. But once we get into realm of heavy mods, especially forced induction, that advantage is largely neutralized.
Anyway, the original troll was a question about Civic v. LT1 and $10K in mods. It's hard to be very specific in response, because there are so many variables. Questions like: does it have to emissions legal, is a stock block required, must it hold together for more than one run, etc., etc. Different "rules" will have different recipes as optimum performance mods for the hypothetical $10K.
My recipe is based on the assumption that we are talking about a street/strip car. So it has to be drivable and have at least a modicum of longevity. It has to use a stock block and head castings which may be modified. I will also assume that the owner will do all of the basic work themselves and buy new parts. Not knowing much about Civics, I can only address the LT1 in this context. And for $10K, you could make one really fast. How fast? Well, low 10's easy.
Here's the recipe. Start with a light weight M6 F-body coupe. Spend $3K on the drivetrain to get a new rear end, driveshaft, and Street Twin. Spend $1.5K on the shortblock with new pistons and rods, but reuse the stock crank. $2K oughta do for some head work, new cam and valve springs. $2K oughta do it for the fuel system and the 300hp nitrous system. $0.5K gets you some headers. Leaves you $1K for suspension stuff, slicks and misc. Figure 600rwhp and with free weight reduction it should be in the 3,400lb range. Oughta run close to 10sec at >130mph.
What the recipe for a 10sec, 130+mph Civic that uses the stock block and heads, and is streetable (meaning can actually be expected to last a season driven to and from the track)? At 2,200lbs it's gonna take ~450FWHP (LOL) to race with the F-body. And that's making the assumption that it can actually launch with 450hp, which I doubt. Can a stock Civic block handle a 300hp nitrous shot? I really doubt it, the cylinder pressures are awfully high. But even if it can (for a similar price as the LT1 block), what about a drivetrain? What kind of streetable transaxle can you put in a Civic will be up to this? I don't believe it exists at anywhere near the price point needed, but I admit to not being a Civic expert, so enlighten me.
So, you need to tell me the following before you convince me that you can make a Civic into a 10sec street/strip car for $10K.
1. what mods, and at what cost, will allow a stock Civic block and heads to hold together at the 450hp level?
2. what drivetrain mods will allow it to live through a season at the 450hp level?
3. how is the car going to get the traction needed to run a 10sec 1/4 mile through the front wheels?
Three insoluble problems when the $10K limit is considered. The whole thing is ludicrous. If my back hadn't gone out today
moving two full drums of race gas and two of methanol into the shed I wouldn't have spent the last 15minutes thinking about this, it's retarded.Another retarded thing: why have I spent at least five times $10K getting my car to run that fast if I know so much
* Rich Krause
*BTW: there is an answer to that question, I am just making fun of myself to pre-empt you guys from doing it.
Last edited by rskrause; Apr 17, 2003 at 10:41 PM.
Banned
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,505
From: looking for a flow bench so Brook and I can race
Originally posted by rskrause
I've read some of Dan's posts and he's usally pretty reasonable. But that last one is way off base, even for this retarded thread. Yeah, a Civic is lighter than an F-body. BUT IT HAS ~1/3 THE DISPLACEMENT. So, it would need to be ~1/3 the weight to have the same potential as the 4th gen. And that's completely leaving out the FWD v. RWD issue, which really can't be ignored.
Yes, I am well aware that in stock or mildly modded form the Honda motor will have a higher specific output. But once we get into realm of heavy mods, especially forced induction, that advantage is largely neutralized.
Anyway, the original troll was a question about Civic v. LT1 and $10K in mods. It's hard to be very specific in response, because there are so many variables. Questions like: does it have to emissions legal, is a stock block required, must it hold together for more than one run, etc., etc. Different "rules" will have different recipes as optimum performance mods for the hypothetical $10K.
My recipe is based on the assumption that we are talking about a street/strip car. So it has to be drivable and have at least a modicum of longevity. It has to use a stock block and head castings which may be modified. I will also assume that the owner will do all of the basic work themselves and buy new parts. Not knowing much about Civics, I can only address the LT1 in this context. And for $10K, you could make one really fast. How fast? Well, low 10's easy.
Here's the recipe. Start with a light weight M6 F-body coupe. Spend $3K on the drivetrain to get a new rear end, driveshaft, and Street Twin. Spend $1.5K on the shortblock with new pistons and rods, but reuse the stock crank. $2K oughta do for some head work, new cam and valve springs. $2K oughta do it for the fuel system and the 300hp nitrous system. $0.5K gets you some headers. Leaves you $1K for suspension stuff, slicks and misc. Figure 600rwhp and with free weight reduction it should be in the 3,400lb range. Oughta run close to 10sec at >130mph.
What the recipe for a 10sec, 130+mph Civic that uses the stock block and heads, and is streetable (meaning can actually be expected to last a season driven to and from the track)? At 2,200lbs it's gonna take ~450FWHP (LOL) to race with the F-body. And that's making the assumption that it can actually launch with 450hp, which I doubt. Can a stock Civic block handle a 300hp nitrous shot? I really doubt it, the cylinder pressures are awfully high. But even if it can (for a similar price as the LT1 block), what about a drivetrain? What kind of streetable transaxle can you put in a Civic will be up to this? I don't believe it exists at anywhere near the price point needed, but I admit to not being a Civic expert, so enlighten me.
So, you need to tell me the following before you convince me that you can make a Civic into a 10sec street/strip car for $10K.
1. what mods, and at what cost, will allow a stock Civic block and heads to hold together at the 450hp level?
2. what drivetrain mods will allow it to live through a season at the 450hp level?
3. how is the car going to get the traction needed to run a 10sec 1/4 mile through the front wheels?
Three insoluble problems when the $10K limit is considered. The whole thing is ludicrous. If my back hadn't gone out today moving two full drums of race gas and two of methanol into the shed I wouldn't have spent the last 15minutes thinking about this, it's retarded.
Another retarded thing: why have I spent at least five times $10K getting my car to run that fast if I know so much*
Rich Krause
*BTW: there is an answer to that question, I am just making fun of myself to pre-empt you guys from doing it.
I've read some of Dan's posts and he's usally pretty reasonable. But that last one is way off base, even for this retarded thread. Yeah, a Civic is lighter than an F-body. BUT IT HAS ~1/3 THE DISPLACEMENT. So, it would need to be ~1/3 the weight to have the same potential as the 4th gen. And that's completely leaving out the FWD v. RWD issue, which really can't be ignored.
Yes, I am well aware that in stock or mildly modded form the Honda motor will have a higher specific output. But once we get into realm of heavy mods, especially forced induction, that advantage is largely neutralized.
Anyway, the original troll was a question about Civic v. LT1 and $10K in mods. It's hard to be very specific in response, because there are so many variables. Questions like: does it have to emissions legal, is a stock block required, must it hold together for more than one run, etc., etc. Different "rules" will have different recipes as optimum performance mods for the hypothetical $10K.
My recipe is based on the assumption that we are talking about a street/strip car. So it has to be drivable and have at least a modicum of longevity. It has to use a stock block and head castings which may be modified. I will also assume that the owner will do all of the basic work themselves and buy new parts. Not knowing much about Civics, I can only address the LT1 in this context. And for $10K, you could make one really fast. How fast? Well, low 10's easy.
Here's the recipe. Start with a light weight M6 F-body coupe. Spend $3K on the drivetrain to get a new rear end, driveshaft, and Street Twin. Spend $1.5K on the shortblock with new pistons and rods, but reuse the stock crank. $2K oughta do for some head work, new cam and valve springs. $2K oughta do it for the fuel system and the 300hp nitrous system. $0.5K gets you some headers. Leaves you $1K for suspension stuff, slicks and misc. Figure 600rwhp and with free weight reduction it should be in the 3,400lb range. Oughta run close to 10sec at >130mph.
What the recipe for a 10sec, 130+mph Civic that uses the stock block and heads, and is streetable (meaning can actually be expected to last a season driven to and from the track)? At 2,200lbs it's gonna take ~450FWHP (LOL) to race with the F-body. And that's making the assumption that it can actually launch with 450hp, which I doubt. Can a stock Civic block handle a 300hp nitrous shot? I really doubt it, the cylinder pressures are awfully high. But even if it can (for a similar price as the LT1 block), what about a drivetrain? What kind of streetable transaxle can you put in a Civic will be up to this? I don't believe it exists at anywhere near the price point needed, but I admit to not being a Civic expert, so enlighten me.
So, you need to tell me the following before you convince me that you can make a Civic into a 10sec street/strip car for $10K.
1. what mods, and at what cost, will allow a stock Civic block and heads to hold together at the 450hp level?
2. what drivetrain mods will allow it to live through a season at the 450hp level?
3. how is the car going to get the traction needed to run a 10sec 1/4 mile through the front wheels?
Three insoluble problems when the $10K limit is considered. The whole thing is ludicrous. If my back hadn't gone out today
moving two full drums of race gas and two of methanol into the shed I wouldn't have spent the last 15minutes thinking about this, it's retarded.Another retarded thing: why have I spent at least five times $10K getting my car to run that fast if I know so much
* Rich Krause
*BTW: there is an answer to that question, I am just making fun of myself to pre-empt you guys from doing it.
your gettin old Rich!
(need a cane?)Your a Doctor, cant you just fix it?
My best friends dad is a mechanic, everytime i'd break something on my car (rear end
) he could fix it. Doctors are like people mechanics. They fix broken people
.(maybe your totaled
)anyway Dr. Krause-
my next car (probobly a vette or LS1 F-body) will just have a STACKED bottom end, VERY tame cam so it doesn't even lope, bolt ons and 300 shot.
no one will ever see it coming
Last edited by treyZ28; Apr 17, 2003 at 10:51 PM.
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 348
From: Jonesboro, GA, USA
It must suck to own an ls1? I feel sorry for the guy who runs with a stock ls1 being that modified. Mine ran 13.25 @ 105 stock. If all he could muster was a 12.9.. Ls1's (not all, but probably 5-10% with a good driver) can do that bonestock. If you want to get technical, it would suck to own a civic considering there is a top 50 list of 11 second ls1 fbodies in the drag racing section of ls1tech.. All of which have no internal mods. Once again. The civic is not a good platform to make a drag car out of. Have a nice day.
I feel sorry for the guy who runs with a stock ls1 being that modified. Mine ran 13.25 @ 105 stock. If all he could muster was a 12.9.. Ls1's (not all, but probably 5-10% with a good driver) can do that bonestock. If you want to get technical, it would suck to own a civic considering there is a top 50 list of 11 second ls1 fbodies in the drag racing section of ls1tech.. All of which have no internal mods. Once again. The civic is not a good platform to make a drag car out of. Have a nice day.
Last edited by dist0rtion_69; Apr 18, 2003 at 02:37 AM.