Reasons not to get 17x11's?
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 4,784
From: Jacksonville
I'm still trying to figure out why everyone says 16inch rims are good for traction. Thier like 16X6.5 inch rims and they have a little contact patch and don' get good traction at all.
Look at it this way, a smaller rim/larger side wall is better for straight line performance, basically drag racing. A larger rim/smaller side wall is better for cornering and handling like in autocrossing.
It's not actually the rims that are good for traction (try doing any kind of driving on rims alone
), but a 16 inch rim is more flexable in how you can use it. You can get a good ET streets or slicks or drag radials that will give decent side wall flex for a good hard launch, and you can also get a lower profile tire with a stiffer side wall that will handle better when you're not tearing up the strip. Plus they are usually cheaper than 17's.
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,743
From: Mission, Kansas
Originally posted by 97WS6SCharged
Heat, you only run the 16x5 rims up front with the skinny tires to reduce rolling resistance. You still have to use a good wide sticky tire in the back to hook up really well. Most people use drag radials or a set of ET streets or slicks.
Look at it this way, a smaller rim/larger side wall is better for straight line performance, basically drag racing. A larger rim/smaller side wall is better for cornering and handling like in autocrossing.
It's not actually the rims that are good for traction (try doing any kind of driving on rims alone), but a 16 inch rim is more flexable in how you can use it. You can get a good ET streets or slicks or drag radials that will give decent side wall flex for a good hard launch, and you can also get a lower profile tire with a stiffer side wall that will handle better when you're not tearing up the strip. Plus they are usually cheaper than 17's.
Heat, you only run the 16x5 rims up front with the skinny tires to reduce rolling resistance. You still have to use a good wide sticky tire in the back to hook up really well. Most people use drag radials or a set of ET streets or slicks.
Look at it this way, a smaller rim/larger side wall is better for straight line performance, basically drag racing. A larger rim/smaller side wall is better for cornering and handling like in autocrossing.
It's not actually the rims that are good for traction (try doing any kind of driving on rims alone
), but a 16 inch rim is more flexable in how you can use it. You can get a good ET streets or slicks or drag radials that will give decent side wall flex for a good hard launch, and you can also get a lower profile tire with a stiffer side wall that will handle better when you're not tearing up the strip. Plus they are usually cheaper than 17's.
Advanced Member
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 3,874
From: Under The Hood
"With drag radials, sidewall doesn't make that much of a difference. I know this because everyone told me that 275/50/15 would hook better than 315/35/17's because of more side, but they were WRONG. Running 30psi in the 315's hooked better than 22psi in the 275's."
I've argued that same statement with people over the net like dozens of times. It's like no one gets it till they go out and buy the larger set of wheels and try it for themselves. A good sidewall is nice if you plan on doing wheelies out the box...but there's cars with just as much HP running the same times with less than average sidewalls. People upgrade to 17X11's because the 275's aren't giving them the traction they want. My old 275's sucked and I hated them dearly.
I've argued that same statement with people over the net like dozens of times. It's like no one gets it till they go out and buy the larger set of wheels and try it for themselves. A good sidewall is nice if you plan on doing wheelies out the box...but there's cars with just as much HP running the same times with less than average sidewalls. People upgrade to 17X11's because the 275's aren't giving them the traction they want. My old 275's sucked and I hated them dearly.
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,743
From: Mission, Kansas
Originally posted by Heatmaker
"With drag radials, sidewall doesn't make that much of a difference. I know this because everyone told me that 275/50/15 would hook better than 315/35/17's because of more side, but they were WRONG. Running 30psi in the 315's hooked better than 22psi in the 275's."
I've argued that same statement with people over the net like dozens of times. It's like no one gets it till they go out and buy the larger set of wheels and try it for themselves. A good sidewall is nice if you plan on doing wheelies out the box...but there's cars with just as much HP running the same times with less than average sidewalls. People upgrade to 17X11's because the 275's aren't giving them the traction they want. My old 275's sucked and I hated them dearly.
"With drag radials, sidewall doesn't make that much of a difference. I know this because everyone told me that 275/50/15 would hook better than 315/35/17's because of more side, but they were WRONG. Running 30psi in the 315's hooked better than 22psi in the 275's."
I've argued that same statement with people over the net like dozens of times. It's like no one gets it till they go out and buy the larger set of wheels and try it for themselves. A good sidewall is nice if you plan on doing wheelies out the box...but there's cars with just as much HP running the same times with less than average sidewalls. People upgrade to 17X11's because the 275's aren't giving them the traction they want. My old 275's sucked and I hated them dearly.
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 400
From: Tn
What! You loose traction in the rain with 11s. NO WAY. The wider the rim the better the traction. Look at drag cars and you guys that run wide slicks. You dont see the skinnes in the rear for traction do ya. I know when I had stockers on I could nail it and burn rubber all the way through secound gear. If I braked tq it I would do 360s. Now with 11s forget about the fun. I can hardly burn any rubber. Which is good because tires are high is the only down fall. When I nail it now I only get a little squeek from the back.
IN the rain. There is no comparsion. I always had to ride with traction control ON! Now no traction control and its been raining here all week. Im ready to go obd1 now since I dont fear of loosing my car in the rain. These cars need the 11s on the rear for safety if you ask me. Why do you think the vettes have them on anyway. Exlactly. For traction. No regrets here. Only regret here is that I cant burn rubber no more and I think that is all our regrets who went to 11s.
What tires do you guys run that loose it in the rain.? I have Summitomos HTRZs with directional tread and directional tread is a must in the rain with low profile tires.
Why do you guys have to bend in the fender wells and beat up the inner so much. I just tapped the bottom end of the inner and I was done. NO panhard bar and NO rubbing at all. I just need to lower now a in.
IN the rain. There is no comparsion. I always had to ride with traction control ON! Now no traction control and its been raining here all week. Im ready to go obd1 now since I dont fear of loosing my car in the rain. These cars need the 11s on the rear for safety if you ask me. Why do you think the vettes have them on anyway. Exlactly. For traction. No regrets here. Only regret here is that I cant burn rubber no more and I think that is all our regrets who went to 11s.
What tires do you guys run that loose it in the rain.? I have Summitomos HTRZs with directional tread and directional tread is a must in the rain with low profile tires.
Why do you guys have to bend in the fender wells and beat up the inner so much. I just tapped the bottom end of the inner and I was done. NO panhard bar and NO rubbing at all. I just need to lower now a in.
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 400
From: Tn
Originally posted by Compstall
Remember what 97WS6SCharged said about offset front/rear sizes. You won't be able to rotate them, and will spend money on tires more often than if you went with the same size all the way around. If you can afford that, then more power to ya.
Remember what 97WS6SCharged said about offset front/rear sizes. You won't be able to rotate them, and will spend money on tires more often than if you went with the same size all the way around. If you can afford that, then more power to ya.
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 400
From: Tn
Originally posted by EaC95Z28
yea guys i was wanting to know more on this topic also. i want 315-35/17s on my rears alos. i want to pick me up a set of the afs 17" zr-1 chrome wheels fronts 17x9.5 and rears 17x11s. i dont wnat to have to roll my fenders or do anythign special just want to bolt them on and be done with ti. i hope the tractino is better in the rain like some of you said it is and some said its not. i have just stockes 245/50-16s on my car with soem bf goodrich g force t/a kdws tires. they are aweseom in the ddry and wet and they get pretty good treadlife. there like a bargain tiere. but thats the wheel tire set up i want. i love the look of 315s. arent the viper's raears 335s? man they are some huge tires. i want the 17x11s bad!!!!!!!!! sweet huge wide tiers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! what do you guys think yea or nea?
yea guys i was wanting to know more on this topic also. i want 315-35/17s on my rears alos. i want to pick me up a set of the afs 17" zr-1 chrome wheels fronts 17x9.5 and rears 17x11s. i dont wnat to have to roll my fenders or do anythign special just want to bolt them on and be done with ti. i hope the tractino is better in the rain like some of you said it is and some said its not. i have just stockes 245/50-16s on my car with soem bf goodrich g force t/a kdws tires. they are aweseom in the ddry and wet and they get pretty good treadlife. there like a bargain tiere. but thats the wheel tire set up i want. i love the look of 315s. arent the viper's raears 335s? man they are some huge tires. i want the 17x11s bad!!!!!!!!! sweet huge wide tiers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! what do you guys think yea or nea?
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 400
From: Tn
Originally posted by kgkern01
So I would have to buy the fronts before rears, right? Still wondering about my questions on wet and snow traction, though, anyone have a reply?
So I would have to buy the fronts before rears, right? Still wondering about my questions on wet and snow traction, though, anyone have a reply?
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 146
From: Kansas City, MO, USA
Ill chime in..... put 11's on mine and 315 with less expensive tires. I see NO improvement in traction whatsoever, love the way they look but the car does seem to track around on the road a great deal in the ruts. It also kinda sucks that I cant rotate the tires, but i knew that going into the deal. Id still make the same decision though-just really like the way that they look!!
regarding the rain traction: doesnt it make sense that the wider the tire, the more water the tread has to siphone away? My rain traction seems to be slightly worse, then again i did end up buying less expensive sumitomo tires....
regarding the rain traction: doesnt it make sense that the wider the tire, the more water the tread has to siphone away? My rain traction seems to be slightly worse, then again i did end up buying less expensive sumitomo tires....
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,370
From: Germany
Originally posted by Newbie97
What! You loose traction in the rain with 11s. NO WAY. The wider the rim the better the traction. Look at drag cars and you guys that run wide slicks. You dont see the skinnes in the rear for traction do ya. I know when I had stockers on I could nail it and burn rubber all the way through secound gear. If I braked tq it I would do 360s. Now with 11s forget about the fun. I can hardly burn any rubber. Which is good because tires are high is the only down fall. When I nail it now I only get a little squeek from the back.
IN the rain. There is no comparsion. I always had to ride with traction control ON! Now no traction control and its been raining here all week. Im ready to go obd1 now since I dont fear of loosing my car in the rain. These cars need the 11s on the rear for safety if you ask me. Why do you think the vettes have them on anyway. Exlactly. For traction. No regrets here. Only regret here is that I cant burn rubber no more and I think that is all our regrets who went to 11s.
What tires do you guys run that loose it in the rain.? I have Summitomos HTRZs with directional tread and directional tread is a must in the rain with low profile tires.
Why do you guys have to bend in the fender wells and beat up the inner so much. I just tapped the bottom end of the inner and I was done. NO panhard bar and NO rubbing at all. I just need to lower now a in.
What! You loose traction in the rain with 11s. NO WAY. The wider the rim the better the traction. Look at drag cars and you guys that run wide slicks. You dont see the skinnes in the rear for traction do ya. I know when I had stockers on I could nail it and burn rubber all the way through secound gear. If I braked tq it I would do 360s. Now with 11s forget about the fun. I can hardly burn any rubber. Which is good because tires are high is the only down fall. When I nail it now I only get a little squeek from the back.
IN the rain. There is no comparsion. I always had to ride with traction control ON! Now no traction control and its been raining here all week. Im ready to go obd1 now since I dont fear of loosing my car in the rain. These cars need the 11s on the rear for safety if you ask me. Why do you think the vettes have them on anyway. Exlactly. For traction. No regrets here. Only regret here is that I cant burn rubber no more and I think that is all our regrets who went to 11s.
What tires do you guys run that loose it in the rain.? I have Summitomos HTRZs with directional tread and directional tread is a must in the rain with low profile tires.
Why do you guys have to bend in the fender wells and beat up the inner so much. I just tapped the bottom end of the inner and I was done. NO panhard bar and NO rubbing at all. I just need to lower now a in.
lets take it to something u might understand, when ur water skying? why do the put that big ski under u? becuase with ur little feet ur not gonna hydroplane but when u get a wider base for ur body it takes less to make it hydroplane. so u stay above the water...
but it also makes a difference on the tread, ur tread and compound will make any difference in the world, and since 11' tires are a specailty for handling and performance im sure they do the most they can to make sure they dont hydro plane
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 557
From: KU
If you get an adj. panhard rod you should not have a problem with rubbing the inner fenders at all. (The top maybe, but not the inner)
I have not regretted my 315s in traction or looks. I have the "John Ames" Eibachs on my car so its low as chit and I do need to roll my fenders but I refuse to do so.
To the guy that wants to rotate his tires, I have a few friends that run 17x11s all the way around with no problems. All you have to do is shave the little "nub" on the top of the spindle and it will clear for a 17x11 up front as well. That's the only way to get'r done.
I have not regretted my 315s in traction or looks. I have the "John Ames" Eibachs on my car so its low as chit and I do need to roll my fenders but I refuse to do so.
To the guy that wants to rotate his tires, I have a few friends that run 17x11s all the way around with no problems. All you have to do is shave the little "nub" on the top of the spindle and it will clear for a 17x11 up front as well. That's the only way to get'r done.
Administrator
Joined: Mar 1999
Posts: 3,664
From: Brunswick, Maine 04011
This isn't that difficult a question....
Narrow tires will have better traction in wet and snow than wide tires. It is a fact of life. You have more weight on a more narrow footprint. You also want increased tread depth for rain and snow.
17 x 11's in the snow will generally suck. They are not appropriate for safe winter driving.
Dry traction is dependant on the "footprint" of the tire and the flex of the sidewall. For cornering traction you want a stiffer sidewall and for straight line traction you want a softer sidewall. That is why people that want good traction at the drag strip use 15" rims and very tall tires, so the sidewall flexes at launch and the tire absorbs the shock resulting in staying stuck to the track. Take a drag tire and try to do twisties and it will literally roll off the rim due to the lack of sidewall support.
Drag Radials have fairly stiff sidewalls and corner quite well. They also have a softer rubber compound which results in better traction as well as significantly decreased tread life. The tread depth is also short which makes them a poor choice for wet weather driving conditions. The wider the tire the more of a problem reduced tread depth becomes due to the larger contact area.
Fgure out how you will use the vehicle and then install tires appropriate to your primary use. As soon as you specialize your tire/wheels you will end up making some tradeoffs.
Also, 17" rims are generally very heavy wich may decrease the overall performance of your vehicle.
Narrow tires will have better traction in wet and snow than wide tires. It is a fact of life. You have more weight on a more narrow footprint. You also want increased tread depth for rain and snow.
17 x 11's in the snow will generally suck. They are not appropriate for safe winter driving.
Dry traction is dependant on the "footprint" of the tire and the flex of the sidewall. For cornering traction you want a stiffer sidewall and for straight line traction you want a softer sidewall. That is why people that want good traction at the drag strip use 15" rims and very tall tires, so the sidewall flexes at launch and the tire absorbs the shock resulting in staying stuck to the track. Take a drag tire and try to do twisties and it will literally roll off the rim due to the lack of sidewall support.
Drag Radials have fairly stiff sidewalls and corner quite well. They also have a softer rubber compound which results in better traction as well as significantly decreased tread life. The tread depth is also short which makes them a poor choice for wet weather driving conditions. The wider the tire the more of a problem reduced tread depth becomes due to the larger contact area.
Fgure out how you will use the vehicle and then install tires appropriate to your primary use. As soon as you specialize your tire/wheels you will end up making some tradeoffs.
Also, 17" rims are generally very heavy wich may decrease the overall performance of your vehicle.