LT1 Based Engine Tech 1993-1997 LT1/LT4 Engine Related

MAP Vs. Vaccuum

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Old Jul 18, 2004 | 05:19 PM
  #1  
Fastbird93's Avatar
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MAP Vs. Vaccuum

Ok, I can't seem to find what I was looking for.

I seem to remember reading that your Map In/Hg added to your Vaccuum In/Hg always equalled up to XX (being the number I can't remember, in the 30's is all I can remember). Or should equal up to that number.

Anyone know what I'm talking about and have a reference?? Thanks.
Old Jul 18, 2004 | 05:23 PM
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Re: MAP Vs. Vaccuum

map + vacuum = atmospheric pressure (barometer reading)
Old Jul 18, 2004 | 05:26 PM
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Re: MAP Vs. Vaccuum

I'll be corrected if I'm wrong but the MAP reads barometric pressure in kPa/volts. In/hg is always a measurement of vaccuum. They are opposite of each other. If the MAP is high then vaccuum will be low. The opposite of that is also true.
Old Jul 18, 2004 | 05:31 PM
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Re: MAP Vs. Vaccuum

If map goes down, vacuum goes up. My formula reflects that too because the atmospheric pressure is constant.

This is taken from Fred (injuneer) page on scanmaster readings
BAR (Barometric Pressure):

This is the barometric pressure in the area where you are driving. At sea level, the barometric pressure is about 30" Hg (inches of Mercury). As your elevation increases, the barometric pressure decreases, since this is effectively the weight of the air pressing down on you from the very top of the air layer that surrounds the earth. In Denver, for example, at 5,800 ft. elevation, the barometric pressure might only read 24.0 "Hg. As atmospheric conditions change at any location, the barometric pressure will change slightly. When a storm approaches, the barometric pressure will drop.

Different scanners can report the readings in different units. Some scanners read in "kiloPascals" (kPa). 100 kPa is roughly "one atmosphere" or 30" Hg.

In effect, in a naturally aspirated engine, this is the maximum pressure you can see in your cylinders as they pull the air/fuel mixture into the cylinder. The higher the barometric pressure, the more air can potentially be fed into your engine. Just remember, there is nothing you can do to change BAR…. It is a reading of the atmosphere, not your engine, and should be very close to the barometric pressure reported by the local weather service, or printed on your dragstrip time slip.

If you want to check your stock "1 Bar" sensor, the output voltage should be about 4.8 Volts with the key on, but the engine not running. If you have a supercharged engine, and are running a speed-density or N-Alpha system, you might have a "2 Bar" or "3 Bar" sensor.

The MAP sensor measures the barometric pressure when the key is turned on, but before the engine starts. The sensor is about the size of a domino, black plastic, and mounts at the front/passenger side of the intake manifold.

The barometric pressure readings shown above for various altitudes were challenged by an aircraft pilot, who claimed he had been to cities like Denver and never seen anywhere near 24"Hg. What he failed to understand was that pilots are provided with a barometric pressure that is "corrected" to sea level. They need this data to calibrate their altimeters, entering the barometric data in the Kolisman window on the altimeter. But this data is not applicable to the power output of an internal combustion engine.

MAP (Manifold Absolute Pressure):

Here is where you can do something about the pressure that forces the air/fuel mixture into your engine. The air cleaner is exposed to atmospheric pressure (BAR). As the air passes through the filter, it loses some pressure. It loses more pressure in the ductwork that feeds it into the engine, the MAF sensor, the throttle body, the intake runners and the restriction of the open valve. Each of these items reduces the air pressure slightly. And gives you a pressure LOWER than atmospheric pressure in your intake manifold. This pressure is called manifold absolute pressure, to avoid using the negative numbers required to measure vacuum.

When a stock LT1 is idling, the "MAP" reading should be about one-third of the "BAR" reading. Check the "BAR", and remember it - it won't change for a while, unless you're in the middle of a hurricane… Then display "MAP". If the BAR = 30.0, MAP should be at 10.0, or below. On my relatively stock LT1, with a BAR = 30, I would see MAP readings at idle of 9.3 to 9.5. The readings would fluctuate slightly with the idle. Maybe as low as 8.9, and maybe as high as 9.8.

If you have a cam that is more aggressive than the stocker, you will see a higher MAP reading at idle. With a fairly radical cam, you might see reading of 18 or so.

The difference between MAP and BAR is your manifold vacuum. If BAR = 30.0 and MAP = 9.5, then your vacuum is 30.0 - 9.5 = 20.5 inches of Hg. If you connect a vacuum gauge to the correct port on the manifold, this is what it should read.

When you start driving, the MAP will fluctuate with the throttle position and the engine load. Close the throttle completely at 2,000 RPM, and the MAP will drop well below 9.0. Floor it at low RPM, and the MAP should shoot up to a number equal to, or very close to "BAR". The output of the MAP sensor is very important, because it tells the PCM where to look in the fuel and ignition timing tables. High MAP = high engine load. Low MAP = low engine load.

Last edited by atljar; Jul 18, 2004 at 05:34 PM.
Old Jul 18, 2004 | 08:00 PM
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Re: MAP Vs. Vaccuum

D@mn, that look even better now than when I wrote it 4 years ago......
Old Jul 18, 2004 | 08:52 PM
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Re: MAP Vs. Vaccuum

Thanks you two, that was exactly what I was looking for. I thought the BAR was higher than the 30, and I really appreciate the help.

On my 355 setup, looking at Datamaster, I'm still pulling 17-18 In/Hg of vacuum (12-13 MAP at idle) with a pretty large Joe O cam. I'd say I'm doing good!!!

Thanks again! That really helps. Any way I can possibly get a link to that page to bookmark it?

*Edit* Disregard, I just found it.
Old Jul 18, 2004 | 09:48 PM
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Re: MAP Vs. Vaccuum

It made me smarter
Old Jul 19, 2004 | 05:03 AM
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Re: MAP Vs. Vaccuum

Originally Posted by Lyle A
It made me smarter
It almost did for me, but I misinterpreted it. I was reading it as "the BAR is always equal to 30" when in fact the BAR is equal to whatever your MAP reads at Ignition "ON", Motor "OFF", as a baseline equal to the atmospheric pressure at the current time.
Old Oct 7, 2004 | 10:03 AM
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Re: MAP Vs. Vaccuum

SO if the MAP reading is high at idle(75-90kpa 4-4.3 volts) and you have no vacum leaks what could it be? Will a big cam cause this? I'm getting a code saying my Map is reading high
Old Oct 7, 2004 | 10:40 AM
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Re: MAP Vs. Vaccuum

Yes that is very high. A HUGE cam could cause that, but i dunno. how big we talking about?

I would think you have something else wrong (physical cam timing, valve lash)
Old Oct 7, 2004 | 11:53 AM
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Re: MAP Vs. Vaccuum

25x/25x on a 107 Centline line and 109lsa. Car seems to run well and idle pretty good but the check engine light will come at idle due to the code and cause it to somewhat idle eractic. The light will go away when you drive it at a constant speed. Maybe go to a 3 bar sensor ?
Old Oct 7, 2004 | 04:20 PM
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Re: MAP Vs. Vaccuum

Ttt
Old Oct 7, 2004 | 04:27 PM
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Re: MAP Vs. Vaccuum

How do you figure a 3 bar sensor is going to make a difference? Its not going to read any different then the one you have now because your not getting any pressure near or above 1 bar. Get your pcm programmed for the cam and you wont/shouldnt have a problem. I'd try a new map sensor and seal anyway just in case. Put a vacuum gauge on it?
Old Oct 7, 2004 | 07:27 PM
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Re: MAP Vs. Vaccuum

You pull 17-18" with a large cam? I only pull 15" with a hotcam. Does that mean I have a vacuum leak?
Old Oct 7, 2004 | 11:52 PM
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Re: MAP Vs. Vaccuum

Originally Posted by SILVERZZ28
25x/25x on a 107 Centline line and 109lsa. Car seems to run well and idle pretty good but the check engine light will come at idle due to the code and cause it to somewhat idle eractic. The light will go away when you drive it at a constant speed. Maybe go to a 3 bar sensor ?
The overlap on that cam is definitely going to cost you a ton of vacuum at idle. That's the reason you are getting the trouble code for hig MAP at idle and low RPM.
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