lets see the #'s LE vs. AI
Registered User
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,456
From: sarasota, fl
Originally posted by kmook
When one has ported lt1 castings with lower flow #s than lt4s with higher #s and makes more power than the lt4s, id like to hear about both setups.
Mods nor cams are listed, that is why i asked as i am curious to their setups. Sorry for asking
When one has ported lt1 castings with lower flow #s than lt4s with higher #s and makes more power than the lt4s, id like to hear about both setups.
Mods nor cams are listed, that is why i asked as i am curious to their setups. Sorry for asking
heres the details that might explain the power difference
grease 405 SAE hp, 365 tq
GM847 cam 234/242 duration 575/595 lift, well known good performing cam
running 14.1 lean
all boltons (im pretty sure, he will clarify if im wrong)
lt4pwr 393 SAE hp, 356 tq
dyno'd in 102* heat
28lb stock injectors
CompCams XE Cam 236/242 duration 555/576 lift , although similar numbers, this seems to be a poorly performing cam when i searched around for results.
stock tb (im not sure if he even has a CAI)
flowmaster 3chamber muffler
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 194
From: Maysville Ky.
Heads ported by LT1 Dave
Heads flowed by BES Racing Engines
Stock LT1 heads on forged 383 bottom end.
557 FWHP 490 PDS TORQUE
No times yet. Tunning issues with Accel DFI. Should be high 10s
EXHAUST-------INTAKE
.5 193-------275
.55 202-------287
.6 207-------290
.65 210-------287
Heads flowed by BES Racing Engines
Stock LT1 heads on forged 383 bottom end.
557 FWHP 490 PDS TORQUE
No times yet. Tunning issues with Accel DFI. Should be high 10s
EXHAUST-------INTAKE
.5 193-------275
.55 202-------287
.6 207-------290
.65 210-------287
Last edited by BES-383; Dec 17, 2003 at 07:13 PM.
Registered User
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 3,068
From: Cincinnati, Ohio
Jeff, edit your post and swap around your intake/exhaust numbers... lol (talking to BES 383). Also worth noting that tony's bench seems to be a little low. He did a stock lt1 head and it peaked at ~195cfm on the intake.
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 88
From: MI
Originally posted by CoUnTryMuZiCZ28
Where do I contect phil??? My car will be going down for a new cam and im getting the heads done as well..
Where do I contect phil??? My car will be going down for a new cam and im getting the heads done as well..
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 6,070
From: newton, kansas, USA
Originally posted by CoUnTryMuZiCZ28
Whats the difference in a performance shop near here doing them and me sending them out to phil?
Whats the difference in a performance shop near here doing them and me sending them out to phil?
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,509
From: Red Oak Texas
flow benches are different and Lloyds bench shows a stock LT1 at about 212-215 cfm and Phils shows a stock LT1 at about 205 cfm or so.
This will add up to about 10 cfm difference at .600 lift or so when flowing the same port. The low and mid lift #'s are a lil better on Phils heads than Lloyds and that is how a seemingly "higher flowing" set of heads can make less power than a set that flows less "peak" #'s.
Phils heads make good power and with his "custom" cam, 400 RWHP seems to be had pretty consistantly. Tuning and cam selection makes a huge difference in HP and performance. Even his heads with an XE 230/236 ( or similar catalog cam) will probably make a lil more HP than Lloyds heads.
There is a price difference as well as a HP difference.
When comparing both sets of heads with similar "catalog" cams and similar mods and tuning, they seem to be kinda close but depending on each individual as to if the HP difference is worth the price difference. To some it is WELL worth it and to some it would not be.
NightTrain66@msn.com
This will add up to about 10 cfm difference at .600 lift or so when flowing the same port. The low and mid lift #'s are a lil better on Phils heads than Lloyds and that is how a seemingly "higher flowing" set of heads can make less power than a set that flows less "peak" #'s.
Phils heads make good power and with his "custom" cam, 400 RWHP seems to be had pretty consistantly. Tuning and cam selection makes a huge difference in HP and performance. Even his heads with an XE 230/236 ( or similar catalog cam) will probably make a lil more HP than Lloyds heads.
There is a price difference as well as a HP difference.
When comparing both sets of heads with similar "catalog" cams and similar mods and tuning, they seem to be kinda close but depending on each individual as to if the HP difference is worth the price difference. To some it is WELL worth it and to some it would not be.
NightTrain66@msn.com
Registered User
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 2,626
From: Baylor University - TX
Originally posted by NightTrain66
flow benches are different and Lloyds bench shows a stock LT1 at about 212-215 cfm and Phils shows a stock LT1 at about 205 cfm or so.
This will add up to about 10 cfm difference at .600 lift or so when flowing the same port. The low and mid lift #'s are a lil better on Phils heads than Lloyds and that is how a seemingly "higher flowing" set of heads can make less power than a set that flows less "peak" #'s.
Phils heads make good power and with his "custom" cam, 400 RWHP seems to be had pretty consistantly. Tuning and cam selection makes a huge difference in HP and performance. Even his heads with an XE 230/236 ( or similar catalog cam) will probably make a lil more HP than Lloyds heads.
There is a price difference as well as a HP difference.
When comparing both sets of heads with similar "catalog" cams and similar mods and tuning, they seem to be kinda close but depending on each individual as to if the HP difference is worth the price difference. To some it is WELL worth it and to some it would not be.
NightTrain66@msn.com
flow benches are different and Lloyds bench shows a stock LT1 at about 212-215 cfm and Phils shows a stock LT1 at about 205 cfm or so.
This will add up to about 10 cfm difference at .600 lift or so when flowing the same port. The low and mid lift #'s are a lil better on Phils heads than Lloyds and that is how a seemingly "higher flowing" set of heads can make less power than a set that flows less "peak" #'s.
Phils heads make good power and with his "custom" cam, 400 RWHP seems to be had pretty consistantly. Tuning and cam selection makes a huge difference in HP and performance. Even his heads with an XE 230/236 ( or similar catalog cam) will probably make a lil more HP than Lloyds heads.
There is a price difference as well as a HP difference.
When comparing both sets of heads with similar "catalog" cams and similar mods and tuning, they seem to be kinda close but depending on each individual as to if the HP difference is worth the price difference. To some it is WELL worth it and to some it would not be.
NightTrain66@msn.com
For the money and performance, LE is the only way to go!
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 2,195
From: Springfield, IL
Originally posted by NightTrain66
[B]flow benches are different and Lloyds bench shows a stock LT1 at about 212-215 cfm and Phils shows a stock LT1 at about 205 cfm or so.
This will add up to about 10 cfm difference at .600 lift or so when flowing the same port. The low and mid lift #'s are a lil better on Phils heads than Lloyds and that is how a seemingly "higher flowing" set of heads can make less power than a set that flows less "peak" #'s.
There is a price difference as well as a HP difference.
[B]flow benches are different and Lloyds bench shows a stock LT1 at about 212-215 cfm and Phils shows a stock LT1 at about 205 cfm or so.
This will add up to about 10 cfm difference at .600 lift or so when flowing the same port. The low and mid lift #'s are a lil better on Phils heads than Lloyds and that is how a seemingly "higher flowing" set of heads can make less power than a set that flows less "peak" #'s.
There is a price difference as well as a HP difference.
thank you for pointing that out!
now taking that into account can we get back on topic of NUMBERS produced (not flow numbers either) please
thank you
Advanced Tech Moderator
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,262
From: Nashville
Originally posted by got_hp?
i know ken.......i was just clarifying cause you know how people here jump to conclusions, its not like LT4powr's heads suck, its just a different setup.
heres the details that might explain the power difference...
i know ken.......i was just clarifying cause you know how people here jump to conclusions, its not like LT4powr's heads suck, its just a different setup.
heres the details that might explain the power difference...
Originally posted by simple
its not that hard to stay on topic
its not that hard to stay on topic
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 60
From: Dallas, TX
Originally posted by FacelessZ
Good job with the 3rd person speaking assuming this was Lloyd and not somebody else...
Good job with the 3rd person speaking assuming this was Lloyd and not somebody else...
Back to his question, I believe that its admirable to 'shoot' for a certain hp number gives you some statistical starting point, it doesn't take into consideration things like traction, driver's skill and susp. setup.
If you're looking for a _number_ to brag on, that's one thing...but if you're looking end result, that may be a different ballgame. Slower cars that can hook, beat faster cars on paper all too frequently.
Your subject line threwh me, at first; Maybe two threads would catch more eyes "Who has Llloyd's heads?..etc" and then check the responder's .sig. A search under his name wouldn't be a bad it...it's not that common.
Lates...
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 586
From: Oklahoma City, OK
Originally posted by got_hp?
heres the details that might explain the power difference
grease 405 SAE hp, 365 tq
GM847 cam 234/242 duration 575/595 lift, well known good performing cam
running 14.1 lean
all boltons (im pretty sure, he will clarify if im wrong)
lt4pwr 393 SAE hp, 356 tq
dyno'd in 102* heat
28lb stock injectors
CompCams XE Cam 236/242 duration 555/576 lift , although similar numbers, this seems to be a poorly performing cam when i searched around for results.
stock tb (im not sure if he even has a CAI)
flowmaster 3chamber muffler
heres the details that might explain the power difference
grease 405 SAE hp, 365 tq
GM847 cam 234/242 duration 575/595 lift, well known good performing cam
running 14.1 lean
all boltons (im pretty sure, he will clarify if im wrong)
lt4pwr 393 SAE hp, 356 tq
dyno'd in 102* heat
28lb stock injectors
CompCams XE Cam 236/242 duration 555/576 lift , although similar numbers, this seems to be a poorly performing cam when i searched around for results.
stock tb (im not sure if he even has a CAI)
flowmaster 3chamber muffler