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UPDATE:
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For those of you who have been following this thread, the cause has been found.

http://web.camaross.com/forums/showt...=&pagenumber=2

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BACKGROUND:
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Well, long story short.....my rebuilt 396, (after a pice of angle iron sheared through my oil pan last year) with only 150 miles on it, (no joke), has blown a head gasket and hydrolocked.

It happened right after a couple of short 1-2 shifts - just testing the power - I pulled up to a stop light, it sputtered, came back up to idle, sputtered again and died. I tried to crank it again, LOCKED.

I towed it home, pulled the plugs, water came out, I cranked it over until no more water came out, engine turned over fine.

Other than the #7 plug grounding strap being bent closed (I imagine, from the water force hitting the plug) there was no mechanical damage that could be detected from looking at the plugs.

Also, I have not drained the oil yet (but will today), and when it locked up, the oil pressure was perfect, the motor was at 190 temp. It just up, and died.
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DILEMMA:
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I then called the engine builder to tell him what I observed and he said, "I can't tell you what's wrong or what caused it unless I see it." (understandable) He says, "Pull the motor and bring it here. (200 miles away)"

My big issue here is, is he going to charge me up the @$$ again to pull it apart and inspect it just to tell me, "Yup, it's the head gasket, you're screwed" (something I know already w/o bringing him the motor). Then say, "Shell out another $1,500.00 and I'll put it back together for you."

So my question(s) is(are):
1. Is this normal? (150 miles, blown gasket, hydrolocked motor?)
2. Would it be out of the question to ask them to help me out?
3. Should they be responsible in some way?
4. Is this just bad luck and I should just chalk this up to "Sh*t happens"?
5. Whould you even bother pulling it out and sending it back to them if you didn't think they'd help on the cost?
6. What would you all do if you were in my shoes?

Sorry so long. I'm just frustrated and need some help here guys. Tell me if I truly have a leg to stand on and how I should present my case. I mean, c'mon, 150 miles on a motor I haven't even raced yet? Get outta here!

P.S. I have an all forged bottom end. (Lunati crank, Eagle rods, Ross negative dome racing pistons)

 

The big question is did your builder build the motor, or just machine the parts? If he in fact build the long block, I would hold him responsible after that short a time. If you assembled the long block, you'll be out of luck. Improperly torqued fasteners and a non-true cylinder head surface are two of the biggest culprits of a blown head gasket.

 

Nope, they put it all together. Only thing I did was slap it in the car.

They haven't said one way or another whether or not they'll cover it. So far the only conversation we've had was, "Hey, my engine is hydrolocked" and "Hey, bring it here"

I just want to know what I should expect or request I guess.

Thanks for the input.

 

Just a little experience here that I had with a hydrolocking. I had an '86 IROC 305 TPI. I had removed the baffles out of the dual air cleaner assembly to get better air flow, thinking there was no way water would get up that high. Anyway 5 years aftewr doing that with no problems I ran through a Lake of a puddle one day on the way to work (it was dark out saw it too late) I hit it at about 25 mph (was turning left) As soon as I hit ti the car stumbled and died, tried to start it and the starter just clicked! I had it towed home, pulled the air cleaner assembly and the air filters were soaked. I pulled the boot off the throttle body and flipped the blades open and water poured out I proceeded to pull all the plugs and had a few do the *glug* *glug* *glug* thing (lots of water) I drained the water...I mean oil, which was atleast a quart of water that came out first. I put more oil in, and cranked it over with the plugs out, It looked like a whale had just came to the surface and was blowing out his blow hole, water sprayed out both sides of the engine. I changed the oil and filter again, and put new plugs in. Car was hard to start with out pumping the pedal and it wouldn't stay running once it was started. Finally tracked it down to the IAC, Changed that and the cars back to normal. Drove it another 6 months before I bought my '93 Z, I never had trouble with th IROC after the HL. I sold it to my brother in law and he had good luck with it also up until recently when he cooked the motor, due to his lack of maintanance (low oil, and lost wp belt and kept on driving)

Just to add that mine had an obvious source of 'why'. I could not say why your would spontaniously fill the cylinders so quickly. It might be bad I'd also think it was a building error.

 

Well, I would bring it to them and see what they say. I would find it hard to believe that they would try to hold you responsible for that after that short of a time frame.

 

Thanks for adding your story. At least I can see that it is possible for the motor to be salvagable. Especially since, there was no evidence of mechanical damage and the motor turns over pretty freely now that I have the plugs & water out.

I have to agree with you though. It has to be a either a building error or just a P.O.S. FelPro gasket that delaminated or something.

Maybe I should go with copper gaskets??? Anyone have input on this? I mean, I plan on spraying this motor someday too. If it blows gaskets this easily now......sheesh!

I just hope the rebuild doesn't cost me much or anything if possible. I'm buying a house in two months!! After all, it's still costing me time and aggrevation of having to deal with this when I should be happily breaking in my new motor!!!!!! Arrrrgggggghhhh.

 

I doubt very seriously that the gasket itself is to blame.... FelPro or not.

Most likely the culprit is inappropriate surface finish and or surfaces that are not within flatness limits. Aluminum heads move around alot on a cast iron block so the finishes play a big part on a gasket's lifespan.
Another question.... did they reuse the TTY bolts? Big no-no, but you should know what you paid for and inspect everything that comes off the motor.

I'd forget about copper. It can seal well when using o'rings but doesn't make a good street engine gasket material in my opinion. I've had excellent results with Rol and Corteco on bimetal engines but again... I don't think the gasket manufacturer has any fault here.
Keep us updated.

-Mindgame

 

Any reputable shop should take care of this if it happened at 150mi, provided that they supplied the parts and did the whole job themselves (or hired their own subcontracters). If they won't fix it, ask again nicely. If nice doesn;t work, threaten to spread their name all over the internet.

I don't know the details of this situation, but good luck.

Rich Krause

 

The first machine shop i had asked to assemble my bottom end said they would replace it at their discression if something went wrong.

When my best friends dad heard that, he told me to cut the crap and bring all my stuff down to the shop

 

Confused . Are you saying, your friend's dad told you to NOT go to the initial shop you asked to assemble my bottom end because of their "at their own discression" policy?

And when you said, What were you referring to?

Thanks,

 

Awe! Damn Keegan i cant believe this.

I wouldnt use copper gaskets, just make sure the surfaces are true and use a good felpro gasket. You want to keep your head gasket as your weakest link as you want a head gasket going out not a piston/rod...

Id just call them and have a professional conversation with them and get down to if they'll cover it or what part they will. If need be go Richs' route and use some force if they wont meet in middle ground.

 

he basically saw through their crap. it was the at their own discression policy.

by "it" i meant the motor.
they would replace the motor at their own discreccion.


I suggest you just call him before you go through all this.

 

Even though it is a long trip, take it to them and request they take it apart and inspect it while you are there. If it is there 'fault' then you might get lucky.
I had this happen and I was pissed, but after taking it apart i found out that I made a small mistake, luckily it just put enough water in the cylinders that it would not turn over and did not bend anything.
IF you decide to not take it to them, then pull the heads off and see what the depth of the pistons are at the top of each stroke, this will tell you if you bent a rod.
Main thing is do not start the car and run it, if you do not mess up the bearings you will be fine. I have several thousand miles on my motor since my mishap (flood) and all is well. as long as the water and oil stay in the pan you will be lucky.

But really, what will it hurt to take it to them? Just time right? you have to fix it either way, they may help ya or you may have to. But letting them make that decision is the best.

 

I would have been easy on my new motor until atleast 500 miles of daily driving

 

I will do this. I don't think it can hurt too bad to at least bring it to them but be present when we crack it open like you said. That seems to be the key. However, I'm not certain there will be anything 'visible' upon initially pulling it apart to detect fault. They'll prolly have to 'mic' the surfaces to determine if there is a variance large enough to cause a failure. Can this been relatively quick, say, while I'm there?