Because I'm puzzled at your generalized statement I'm just asking for some good examples to base your reasoning. Is that too much to ask w/out getting too sensitive?
I have examples, but it just doesn't seem to match what you claim. With 4.10 gears I've raced Shawn97Z28M6 from a roll and he stayed fairly even until higher speeds and he had 50rwhp less with stock gearing. Of course at the track I ran .5 faster and would've probably ran even better with 3.73's, but was too ignorant at the time and just followed everyone else's sheep like advice to stick w/ 4.10's because "It'll make you faster..."
When flat out claiming "quicker everywhere..." shouldn't power/torque peak be taken into consideration (I am assuming in your generalized statement you are taking weight/traction as being equal)?

 

Well maybe if you had a more controled test rather than "I have 4.10's and my buddy has 3.73 gears and he runs better" you can find out. How many variables can be in that "test"?

Again go get a physics book and start learning something. If you read what I said, I'm taking HP and TQ into account. The TQ at the tire is TQ and RPM that's the definition of HP! The more you multiply the TQ the better, problem is in a LT1 you don't have unlimited RPM so finding the gear that gives you the most average TQ at the TIRE can take some work. (not chassis dyno TQ, but actual TQ not unhooked from the tire size, gear, tranny)

As always I'm talking about changing one variable. Even when you change one variable in a engine test or car test it has a impact on a lot of other things that most don't realize. If you have more than one variable then you can get into big issues figuring out what is doing what.

It's ok that you don't get it there are threads over on speedtalk that are 20+ pages long of "engine builders" that don't get that concept. Thanks to the aerospace industry in our country the brightest don't migrate into this industry they have other things to play with.

Bret

 

Not very many since what I mention was two vehicles running side by side in the same conditions and "tests" were done several times on different days in different conditions then I'd say the "tests" were controlled well and variables between the two vehicles weres slim to none. What about this dhirocz person? What kind of tests were run with him since it was your mentioning?
I would like you to tell me what I could learn from a physics book that would prove what I've said wrong. You obviously are more up to snuff than I am. So how hard would it be to supply some insight?
I know it would have to do with that "torque multiplication" term that has been tossed around a few times here and there, but once again does the power/torque curve (as in the behavior of the power/torque w/in the RPM band) play a role in your theory? Are you basing these tests on two vehicles with the same exact power/torque curve (not peak numbers, but rather the entire curve) regardless wether it is linear or from a dyno?
Thus, you too should take this under consideration when telling me of resutls you have come up with, right?
Pity you have to take being questioned so personal. It's as if you doubt yourself.

P.S. Where did I ever say I was an engine builder?
And please... try to stay on topic and don't crap up this thread with your personal feelings. Is that possible?

 

for a fun, around town car, the Lt1 is a lot "funner" to drive IMO
ive only driven 3 LS1 cars, and i liked my LT1 feel a lot more

go out, drive both, see what you like more

 

Ok this is pointless. You can't see what differences two different vehicles could have (drivers, mods, weight), will not go pick up the physics book and look for yourself and as always just don't get it. Motors and cars are all about learning it for yourself and if you don't have the tenacity to do that, then you can go on living without that knowledge.

Bret

 

Wow... I thought I could learn something new, yet once again the generalized blanket statements come on cue without fail. I guess that vast amount of knowledge you carry burdens you to the point of not being able to share the wealth. Such a shame...

If motors and cars are "all about learning it for yourself" then why do we have message boards? More importantly, why do you post on this one?

 

Brian, as I said IF YOU WANT TO LEARN SOMETHING GO LEARN IT FOR YOURSELF. I gave you WHERE TO LOOK.

"Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day. Teach a man to fish and he will eat for a lifetime." -Confucius

It doesn't matter what I write, for you to learn anything it would be a 10 page post of me just explaining it OVER AND OVER AGAIN and you don't even have the attention span to even read a post with 3 paragraphs in it and think about it for two minutes to try and get something out of it.

Honestly if it wasn't you I might spend the time, but I have better things to do than waste it on you asking the same question time and time again.

Now on to your post to get the last word in.

Bret

 

Holy crap I cant believe this post is still going.
I wish I had your guys knowledge so I could jump into this pissing contest.

 

dont confuse "post count" with "knowlege"

with that being said there is alot of good info in this thread, thanks again guys

 

Exactly and here's my last word...
This is more than just for me. This is a public message forum. This could be beneficial to more than myself. I have asked questions with nothing but bleeding heart emotional replies from you. Instead of wasting your time trying to explain your greatness you could've indulged why with facts and strong evidence to support your claims. It could've easily been done in any one of the posts you've used to respond. I would've been "learnded" and you could've gone on your merry way, yet once again it just doesn't happen. Imagine that...
I'm with you on everything you stated in that claim except the "less torque/same hp/quicker" part.

While you are busy running away, here's one for you to ponder:
How can a car with the same torque and same rpm and same power actually run quicker and faster when gearing down from 4.10's to 3.73's from a roll and at the track? I'm talking .2 quicker and over 1mph faster through the traps.

 

Why is this post even still going? Everyone is competing basically over their 'version' of engine and driveline theory. What one man agrees on doesnt mean then next does. Ironically, it doesnt necessarily make either of them wrong. But comparing one car to another is practiclaly pointless if you ask me. Too many variables. How much gas is in the tank? Mileage? driver weight? ear ratio, camshaft, head flow, the list goes on... and you can even go so far as to account for areodynamic differences in body styles if you wanted to. What about production tolerance variations? Weight of motor oil?

What makes the difference is this. Take the same car. Dyno it or run down the 1/4, same driver, same amount of gas, etc... do your mods, run again. THERE is the closest comparison you're gonna find. On the SAME CAR. SAME DRIVER. These 'my friends xxx is faster than my xxx with xxx and I should be xxx but he will be xxx with xxx and I wanna be xxx and who is faster after I do xxx' friggin drive me nuts.

We already know the LS1 is faster than the LT1 stock. We already know why. Because of this, we know the LS1 will make more power modified at a similar level. We already know gears make a car quicker thanks to gear multiplication and torque. We already know you can get more 'crafty' with an LT1 since its similar in architecture to the gen 1 and there is more parts support and we all know how the LS1 is gods motor. Lets quit benchracing since it's useless, quit wasting money to show off and beat friends and get back to what this hobby is supposed to be. Make a car you are happy with, work on the car because you enjoy to, and drive on. To me there is no other justification or reason to spend the money that I do just to compete with someone else.

Pick your motor, pick your mods, have fun, screw what the next guy thinks. Its YOUR CAR, not his. This hobby gets expensive. After awhile, you will know more about cars, injection systems and drivetrains to build on what you know currently as engine theory and you can answer more questions and come up with more ideas. It all stems from experience, experience we all tap into here from people who do it far more than the average guy here. So they talk, I STFU. You guys know who you are.

Yes, the LT1 is fun. I have one in the garage now with a TPI intake on it and a ton of other weird stuff Im trying to time. It's unique, part of the reason I put it together. When I get asked why, I did it because I wanted to.

End rant

PS This board is made up from people from all different walks of life, with different situations, problems, priorities and mentalities. some people have good days some dont. Some people are set off by certain things, while some arent that sensitive. Some people are natural a$$holes, some arent. It's part of life. Lets just get our info and forget about our online ego...and that is NOT directed towards anyone in particular.
Cant we all just get along??

 

Brianne,

By the looks of it you turn every forum into crap, Go get a hair cut if you want to be taken seriously.



Otherwise if you can't drive, weight more and have a lower average TQ curve in the RPM that you are running you can easily be slower than a car with 10% less gear. How many other variables you want to put in there?

http://www.f-body.org/timeslips/display_more.cfm?id=449

Either way I hope you have improved on that deal or this would be a lot of smack talking for a guy running low 12's @ 114mph with ported LT4 heads.

Bret

 

dhirocz,

Good Post!

Bret

 

On a brighter note, that single plane on that pic in your sig has a nice TB adapter on it Bret. Where did you get it??? Mine is nice, and took alot of work to make a custom accelerator cable and stuff but I am willing to bet that comes right up to the factory TB location.

 

I made that piece, working on a better one that's more bling and fits a f-body better.