Help - brazilian - camaro vats problem - CamaroZ28.Com Message Board


LT1 Based Engine Tech 1993-1997 LT1/LT4 Engine Related

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 09-12-2017, 09:06 AM   #1
Registered User
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 4
Help - brazilian - camaro vats problem

Hi, I am always following the forum, but I have not found a solution for my case. I have a camaro 1993/1994. He was perfect, always with him. One day I stopped him for a week without the battery. When I called him he did not start the engine. Do not crank.

I by-pass the VATS system as you can see in the image below. But nothing has changed, it still does not crank.





I was looking for the Anti-Theft Control Module (theft deterrent module) and found this from the image below. It's it?





But looking on the internet, the modules I saw are totally different. I looked the one on ebay. Whats the right module? Where it's located? I found this on the right os the glove panel. Is it the TDM and TDR?



And I was looking for the anti-theft relay and find this. But I think it's not it. Is it the TDR?



When I crank, I hear cracks in those boxes under the accelerator pedal. What boxes are these? It can be the problem?



Another thing. Could you tell me what this is? She picks up the wires from the water sensor and this blue wire feeds the car crank. Would you know what the box is? Can it be the problem?



I really need your help, because here in Brazil nobody understands this camaro.

Thank you very much and sorry for the BAD English...
nesprido is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2017, 03:48 PM   #2
Super Moderator
 
Injuneer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 1998
Location: Hell was full so they sent me to NJ
Posts: 45,673
Re: Help - brazilian - camaro vats problem

You need to indicate whether your car is a 1993 (model year, not calendar year), or a 1994. In many cases, there are differences between 1993 and 1994 that may affect the answer. Model year can be determined by the 10th character in the VIN:

http://shbox.com/1/vin_engine_id.jpg



You can download a free copy of the factory service manual here:

https://www.mediafire.com/?40mfgeoe4ctti

I have attached the first 6 pages of the Security section from the 1994 manual.



When you turned the key to "start", and the starter did not crank the engine, did the "SECURITY" light come on, solid or blinking? Shoebox's "how to" describes the operation of the system:

4th Gen LT1 F-Body Tech-PassKey/VATS

From the above:

Quote:
The TDR can sometimes be at fault. It is located to the right of the glove box, next to the hatch relay. It is pinned to the metal structure of the dashboard. It is easiest to see if you poke your head under the dashboard and look back toward the rear (after removing the lower dash panel).


Shoebox's wiring diagram for the PASS-Key system will show you the wire colors, and number of wires/connectors, to help you identify the TDM and the TDR.

http://shbox.com/1/pass_key.jpg



Where is the box in the last picture located? Does not look like a factory setup. By "feeds the car's crank, do you mean the starter? By "water sensor" do you mean the coolant level sensor on the passenger side of the radiator, the coolant temperature sensor on the water pump housing, or the coolant temp gauge sensor on the driver side cylinder head?
Attached Files
File Type: pdf 1994-PASS-Key.pdf (1,018.8 KB, 1 views)
Injuneer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2017, 03:51 PM   #3
Super Moderator
 
Injuneer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 1998
Location: Hell was full so they sent me to NJ
Posts: 45,673
Re: Help - brazilian - camaro vats problem

Also from Shoebox:

1993-1995 theft deterrent module GM Part #16215659

Photo of modules near the accel pedal (nothing to do with SECURITY or starting):


Last edited by Injuneer; 09-12-2017 at 03:54 PM.
Injuneer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2017, 10:13 AM   #4
Registered User
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 4
Re: Help - brazilian - camaro vats problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by Injuneer View Post
You need to indicate whether your car is a 1993 (model year, not calendar year), or a 1994. In many cases, there are differences between 1993 and 1994 that may affect the answer. Model year can be determined by the 10th character in the VIN:

http://shbox.com/1/vin_engine_id.jpg



You can download a free copy of the factory service manual here:

https://www.mediafire.com/?40mfgeoe4ctti

I have attached the first 6 pages of the Security section from the 1994 manual.



When you turned the key to "start", and the starter did not crank the engine, did the "SECURITY" light come on, solid or blinking? Shoebox's "how to" describes the operation of the system:

4th Gen LT1 F-Body Tech-PassKey/VATS

From the above:





Shoebox's wiring diagram for the PASS-Key system will show you the wire colors, and number of wires/connectors, to help you identify the TDM and the TDR.

http://shbox.com/1/pass_key.jpg



Where is the box in the last picture located? Does not look like a factory setup. By "feeds the car's crank, do you mean the starter? By "water sensor" do you mean the coolant level sensor on the passenger side of the radiator, the coolant temperature sensor on the water pump housing, or the coolant temp gauge sensor on the driver side cylinder head?
Thank you very much Injuneer...

My camaro is a 1993:



I see the link but have a lot of manual. What's the camaro factory service manual? What's the file name? I really don't know

I see that you attached the first 6 pages of the Security section from the 1994 manual. I will read it all and came here to ask something about it.

When i turned the key to "start", the starter did not crank the engine, just
make that noise (in this video i try to start a lot of time to make the noise):


The noise came from the Anti-Theft Control Module (theft deterrent module)? It's broken?

My "SECURITY" light never works, even when the car was good. I don't know why.

I will see the describes the operation of the system this night.

The box in the last picture is located near the module. The black and the green wire gos to this sensor, the black goes near the injectors wire and the red and another black go to positive and negative. I think it's water sensor. Take a look:





I don't know if it's the problem, but i don't know what's it.
nesprido is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2017, 10:32 AM   #5
Registered User
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 4
Re: Help - brazilian - camaro vats problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by Injuneer View Post
Also from Shoebox:

1993-1995 theft deterrent module GM Part #16215659

Photo of modules near the accel pedal (nothing to do with SECURITY or starting):

Is it my theft deterrent module?



I take some photos:





I open the box to see if it's something burn. Apeear it's ok, but i don't know. How can i test it?





I see the wire color, but don't match with the colors of the wiring diagram you send me

nesprido is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2017, 10:33 AM   #6
Registered User
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 4
Re: Help - brazilian - camaro vats problem

My previous answer is waiting to be aproved for the moderator
nesprido is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2017, 01:19 PM   #7
Registered User
 
shoebox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Little Rock, AR
Posts: 27,514
Re: Help - brazilian - camaro vats problem

Your pictures above are of the RAP module (as labeled in my website pic). As previously said, nothing to do with VATS. Also why the wire colors do not match the schematic for the VATS.
shoebox is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2017, 02:05 PM   #8
Super Moderator
 
Injuneer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 1998
Location: Hell was full so they sent me to NJ
Posts: 45,673
Re: Help - brazilian - camaro vats problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by nesprido View Post
My previous answer is waiting to be aproved for the moderator
Should be visible now,
Injuneer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2017, 02:41 PM   #9
Super Moderator
 
Injuneer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 1998
Location: Hell was full so they sent me to NJ
Posts: 45,673
Re: Help - brazilian - camaro vats problem

For the factory service manual, when the link opens, scroll down to the bottom half of the list, with the red Adobe .pdf icons. Second item in that list is "1993Firebird-SvcManual". Everything in there will also cover the Camaro except body panels, headlights and instrument panel. 1993 was (I think) the last year they had separate service manuals for the Camaro and Firebird. The author of that list owns a Firebird, so he only included the 1993 Firebird. But it is still correct for the PASS-Key/SECURITY system on the Camaro.

Are you saying the "SECURITY" light does not even turn on briefly when you first turn the key to the "run" position?

Given the sound in the video, you could have a badly corroded battery cable or terminal. Or the ignition switch may be burned, a fairly common problem as these cars get old. See symptoms described in first paragraph of Shoebox's write up:

4th Gen F-body Ignition Switch Replacement

Still not clear where the last (mystery) box is located. You indicate "near the module"..... what module? You mean near the RAP and Express Down modules in Shoebox's photo? Is it located right where the white chalk circle is in Shoebox's photo? It does not look like an original part of the car. GM doesn't use connectors like that, and doesn't use sloppy wiring like that. I'll look at the 1993 manual to see if I can find anything similar.
Injuneer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2017, 09:09 PM   #10
Registered User
 
ACE1252's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Kernersville, NC
Posts: 1,939
Re: Help - brazilian - camaro vats problem

That dash is really torn apart.....

Here is a link to the starter schematic for a 1993.
http://www.ace1252.com/1993_F-body_S..._Schematic.pdf

You need to start voltage testing the circuit path for the starter solenoid to find out why 12 volts is not making it to the solenoid. You seem to be just throwing parts at the problem. Not a good troubleshooting strategy.

If you are not good with electrical drawings and electrical troubleshooting, stop right now and get some help from someone who knows what they are doing.

There are three key things to check...
  • Ignition Switch(mentioned in earlier posts)
  • Starter Enable Relay(theft relay)
  • Clutch start switch

On my 1996, the theft relay is mounted behind the glove box(must be removed), right side, behind another panel. It is in a tough spot to access...with good reason. Even with my skinny arms it was tough to get to it.

The clutch start switch is on the floor under the clutch pedal. It's black in color.

The ignition switch is mounted to the steering column. It can be tough to get to without lowering the steering column.

He said is security light doesn't work, but you can clearly see it on in his video.
ACE1252 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:45 PM.


Copyright © 1996-2017 CamaroZ28.com. All rights reserved.