I took Brets advice a couple of years ago and bought the CC Hi-Techs. Even if there is just a "little" flex with the cheaper ones I don't want them. I want all the cam and valvetrain has to offer, without losing anything to bad harmonics, improperly set lifters, or flex from the pushrods. Even with the small cam that I run. You do it your way and some of us will take Brets and others advice and not cheap out on certain parts. Plus the fact if a bigger cam is in the future I won't have to buy the same parts twice. Take care, Rick.

 

Again, who does this for a living and who just argues with those that do?

Go try it on a dyno sometime, the LS makes more power from 5000rpm on up with better springs and pushrods. With no other changes it's amazing to see the gain at the track with that. Not to mention countless other motor combinations where they see this....

Anyways how about some math and some proof:











Hmmmm looks like ALL OF THOSE ARE "HARDENED" JUNK, not 1 piece chromoly pushrods.

Little math:

GM HotCam Springs

101# @ 1.78" installed height
.525" lift, 332 rate = 275lbs
Now the pushrod sees that mulitplied by the rocker ratio = 440lbs

GM Stock LT1 springs (brand new)

85# @ 1.78" installed height
.446" lift, 373 rate = 250lbs
Roughly a 1.45-1.50 rocker arm ratio on stock rockers = 369lbs

So that's a increase of 20% alone, not to mention the increased pushrod forces that you would see with valve bounce and increased RPM. Lets just say going from 5400rpm to 6400rpm, now you see roughly 25-30% more pushrod forces due to the RPM. That works out to 50+% more force the pushrod sees.

All of those examples above buckled in various combinations and I know at the most we were looking at 480-540lbs that the pushrod was seeing, not to mention the added loads from RPM. Just one over-rev can cause the pushrod to turn into junk do to increased loads from the RPM. The loads increase from 5400-7400rpm by over 60%!!!! that right there is enough to bend the PR by itself!

You can either spend $70 more now to do it right or wait till that happens to you and spend the time and money to fix it later. Guys I'm all about bang for the buck and getting stuff for guys that doesn't cost a arm and a leg, but dam don't skimp in areas that will cost you money down the road and possibly cause MORE damage.

I guess the choice is up to everyone reading this, listen to someone with proof and physics or an OPINION.

Bret

 

ok well I have cc306 with 1.6rr and 918 springs, so will my engine pick up h.p from going to chromoly pushrods or what?

 

Great post Bret!

 

Bret is king of all that is valvetrain.

 

Those that don't want their pushrods to pole vault and get maximum performance from their cam do it Bret's way. I did.

Those that don't mind their pushrods pole vaulting and loosing lift buy the cheaper pushrods.

 

Hell I am already spending over $3000 to redo my engine, whats another $70???

 

My friend breaking the cheap hardened pushrods on his car, then he put in chromoly ones and didn't have any problems. And they weren't breaking from over-revving it, they just weren't strong enough. And just because a pushrod doesn't break doesn't mean it isn't flexing.

 

I see... even though I've ran these same OEM pushrods in my setup for 70K on my LPE heads/cam setup it's still just an "opinion"... Even though I spun it to 6200rpm every day that setup was on the car and gee... ran just as fast or faster than most of the LEx setups that's on this board now. I bet if I would've set up my lifters to zero lash and used chromoly pushrods I could've spun to 7Krpm and picked up some serious power!
So now you plaster pics up of bent pushrods that are allegedly hardened pushrods yet have no background info on anything and this is supposed to convince me that OEM hardened are junk? Usually there's a very good reason why pushrods bend that badly.. by either a combination of ****ty parts, valve float, valve/piston contact... so on and so forth. You are the only one I've ever heard claim that OEM pushrods can magically bend like that because they just junk.
Sorry but I'm not one of your sheep. You flap on about LS1 this and that, but last I checked this thread was about a simple hotcam install, correct? Where's your proof that changing to higher spring pressures along with chromoly pushrods increases power above and beyond the LT4 hotcam power peak?
Once again I ask... how does a lifter plunger "act" on the lifter retainer? Do you need help? I can find the link if you wish.
At first I looked at your banter in the most nonobjective way possible, but I honestly think SSMPSTR is onto something. You seem to be "that dude" who likes to be the head of the rumor mill juggernaut. Just like the Comp R scare and now... I must be one of the lucky ones.
I golf clap your following. *** clap clap clap *** Reminds me of Mike Tyson's "yes you bad, Mike" entourage after his first fight w/ Holyfield.
However because of the lack of ET's from your setups I'm really not quite convinced you are the best that's offered. As I used to tell Overton when he started patting himself on the back all too vigorously... "There's no use in celebrating mediocrity."

 

WOW.....what exact pushrods did you use SS RRR ?
I used the cheap comp hardened ones back in the day with a hot cam and such......I broke 2 so I thought sonething was off....I tried again with the same result a broke one and a few bent.......
Were you using something from LPE or what? The ones I used were a cheap $30 hardened PR

Bret is not even close to overton as far as what you stated. They are are both descent guys and everyone has there sheep....and every sheep has a shepard

 

I don't see where he said that he'd pick up hp with the hotcam, just that he's seen hp increase on other motors. Sounds like you have a bone to pick for some reason and you need to handle it in another matter and in another thread or even pm.

Bret was just trying to help him out with his setup.

 

I like your logic. This is what I used:
http://www.lingenfelter.com/store/ln0280h.html
Maybe because they are hardened chromoly tubes is what saved me from certain disaster! What's the part number of the ones you used?
Right... and as I addressed, we aren't talking about "other motors". We're talking about a simple hotcam swap.
It's like the Comp R thing... are the failures due to other impending circumstances? There is no proof therefore all this is nothing more than hearsay.

 

O.K. I see now....the LPE ones are a heat treated chrome moly
the el cheapo comp are a hardened steel, not moly. I will try to get some close ups of old PR tommorow if I can find them..where they bent they had a lot of little cracks in them....Probly work great in mild apps....but noone can draw the line as to where MILD ends.....so spending the extra $40 I would say is cheap insurance.....Its not fun when you break a bunch of stuff for $40 extra bucks.

We all know this stuff isn't cheap, and none of us like to see stuff fly apart b/c its just a reminder it may happen to you soon

This is what I used......its only heat treated steel....no moly
http://store.summitracing.com/partde...6&autoview=sku

 

Well by looking at these quotes guess i'm not going to convince you of anything but stupid people have to learn from their OWN mistakes I guess... Anyways I really don't care what you think it's the other guys on here who could think you know what you are talking about.

Considering all those are pushrods that are the OEM pressed ball cheap design, yep. I couldn't find a picture of a 5/16 4130 chromoly bent PR. Hell last time I was saw Ed Wright he was concerned that his were taking a beating at 8000+rpm in a solid roller. I agreed, they probably were, but he never bent one of them.

Nope why don't you actually read, or you just don't understand math. I gave you the reasons why they bend like that in these "low stress" situations. It doesn't take an event that is unnatural in the motor... but even if you NEED it to have Piston to Valve contact WTF do you think happens when the pushrod turns into a cheap pogo stick and causes unexpected valve motion at the wrong time or multiplies the number of bounces on valve closure. PISTON TO VALVE CONTACT, and them BOOM the SOB is toast.

I guess the difference between you and me is I have DONE ENOUGH to know what works and what doesn't and what CAN GO WRONG and how to PREVENT that. All it sounds like to me is that you are a lucky a$$hole that **** doesn't happen to. Guess what most of us aren't the lucky guy, some of us just prevent these problems with brains rather than luck.

Well when you have flex in the pushrod (which you obviously doesn't think happens, so nevermind), or valve bounce, or loft it's easy to have valvetrain seperation. Once that happens the plunger can press against the retaining clip and stress it, it might take it a few times but if it's weak it will stress it to the point of bending or breaking like i've seen in all the Comp R failures.

:eyes: It's all rumor mill, after I see something fail multiple times I warn other guys to run something else. This now makes me the head of the rumor mill :eyes:, if it PREVENTS someone from having a problem then fine by me.

Either way I guess you are just the next moron I have to prove wrong on everything. Fine by me, about the only time I care to post is when I can help someone by fixing their problem OR by just showing that the other side of the story is completely wrong. Your more like Joe in that reguard, might as well just resort to name calling and threatening to take your ball and go home than providing some sort of proof that your right.

So let the name calling begin. Remember I'm an arrogant a$$hole, my mom would even tell you that, but that doesn't make me wrong, and at the end of the day I sleep just fine knowing that some moron out there doesn't like me because people agree with me more than them.

Bret

 

Mike,

My guess is that the $40 you save now makes up for the $240 you spend on new valves and $100 on the new pushrods later on that you have to replace because they are bent.

Your exactly right the ones he used are chromoly, cheap ones at that AND not OEM junk that I have been talking about. Either way I wouldn't run them in anything I do, hell i've found power with 3/8th stuff in hyd roller applications.

Bret