steve10358

I need to start thinking fuel system for the motor I am building.

Here's the deal:

Procharger P1SC w/ 2 core int.
355 w/ AFR 220's
Solid Roller Camshaft

I figure, the Aeromotive pump, regulator and filter will do...but what about the fuel rails, injectors and lines?

How many feet of -10 and -8 do I need? How do I set it up?

Steve

slopokrodrigez

I just got finished doing the exact same job from front to back. To replace everything is a lot of work. Also I found that a big fuel pump is hard to find clearance for. I got the Aeromotive 11101 model and it is hard to find a location to mount it. Get a smaller pump Aero has one but I can't remember the number. It will strap to the frame rail. I used 8an feed line and 6 an return line.

These pumps highly recommend the use of a sump on the tank. This is the worst part of the job. The tank comes out and you find a radiator shop that will weld the sump for you. You may want to stick with an intank pump if your not planning on pushing a lot of HP.

Now let me tell you something that noone will tell and isn't in any catalog. The first thing is the catalogs lie about the aeromotive filter. The paper element one like model 12301 or 12303 is not 10 micron. It is 40 micron. Once I got mine and it says that, I called Summit and they confirmed it is 40 in the Aeromotive catalog. No big deal. The regulator that is made for LT1's does not look anything like the picture of the regulator number 13107.

Even if you go to the Aeromotive web sight it will show you the same picture as the Jegs and Summit catalog. I sent them a picture of the one I received twice and Aero told me they changed it so it will work with Alcohol laden fuels. I told them it doesn't fit correctly and they told me to tie wrap it on. They got to be kidding. What a way do to things.

The last hurtle is cutting the stainless braided fuel lines. It is a major pain in the A@#. You can't use a hacksaw, there is no cutters that I'm aware of. Side cutters are useless. I had to use a high speed cut off wheel with the lines wrapped with tape to prevent the braid from freying. The plumbing pieces are a night mare if like me you aren't a plumber. Summit really helped out with that.

I got my own pieces to connect the input and returns lines up to the fuel rails. Got compression fittings of 1/4 and 3/8 sizes and hooked right up.

One last thing. I have tried check valves located all over the system from the fuel rails to the tank and ever where in between and I still can't get the system to hold pressure when the pump is off. I put in a fuel pressure gage near the fuel rail and gage is in the side pod on the drivers A pillar. The system pressure will bleed down as soon as the engine is turned off. Within 30 minutes when you restart the car you have to crank for a long time. I can not find a check valve that holds. I believe the people with the intank fuel pumps don't have this problem.

I hope this helps. If you want any pictures your wel come to them. I don't know how to post them here otherwise I would have done it. If you want them email me at jamianddave@juno.com

You need 20 feet of both lines. don't use 10 and 8 the bigger the lines the harder it is to work with. Get a fuel pump hook up at a junk yard so you have the fittings to work with to find the right hardware to hook up the lines to. Of all the mfr's that make line and fittings, Russell was the easiest to connect the fittings to the line with.

sorry long but you need to know these things.

rskrause

Steve: you may want to look at my car to see where I put the pumps. It's hard to describe, but obvious when you see it. They are tucked up out of the way and do not decrease ground clearance. I am using two of the A1000 (PN 11101) pumps. You can probably get by with one. I am not sure I needed two either, but that's what we ended up doing. The second pump is activated only at WOT.

Get the Aeroquip high temp rubber lines, I don't see a reason to bother with the stainless braided. The two hoses have the same 300 degree temp rating. Both require some sort of thermal protector if near the exhaust, the only advantage of the stainless is abrasion resistance. If the system is designed and installed correctly there should be no issue with abrasion.

I also don't understand the previous post wrt "check valves". The PCM primes the pump for a couple of seconds as soon as you turn the ignition on, just don't crank until the pump stops running and it starts right up. No different from the stock setup.

The new system feeds both rails separately, I had AN fittings welded to each and used a "Y" block to split the -10 common feed line. So there are two two -8 lines from the tank, one to each pump. An -8 line from each pump joins into a common -10 line to the motor.

I used a lot of hose, but I don't think your setup will be like mine though I am not sure exactly what you have in mind. You might want to consider my previous fuel system utilizing a 255lph intank and a "Boost-a-Pump". Supported over 700rwhp with stock lines, stock rails, and stock regulator. A hell of a lot cheaper (and easier) than what I put in this year.

Rich Krause

steve10358

Thanks guys!
Here come the questions:

Rich:
1. Rather than running one -10, and one -8... is it my understanding that you are running 2 -8's? One return, one send? Or are you running three, with 2 going into the 10?

2. In essence, you think I should just stick with stock lines, rails, regulator...and simply upgrade the pump? I know baxter got away with this for a while. Has he since changed it? I am a little cautious seeing as I really want to crank the boost of a huge set of heads. The goal would be to run 9's...

3. I figure for right now, I can get away with a pump and the 30#'s. After the motor, I know the injectors need to be upped... and I might do the whole thing then. I guess it depends on how the car reacts, I suppose.

4. Rich, what prompted you to up the ante on your fuel system? What gains did you see?

Thoughts, opinions?

Steve

Injuneer

You can actually make a very good case for not going to an -8AN or -10AN supply line. The more fuel you have in the line, the more pressure you are suddenly going to lose on a hard launch, as the G's press the mass of fuel back on the pump.

I don't know if anyone mentioned it... Rich obviously did it.... but if you "split" the rails and feed the back of both ends, you need to have a return connection (or two) added at the front of the rails. I welded a -6AN fitting to the cross-over pipe at the front for a return. I have also seen a fitting welded to the front end of each rail, point straight up.

Adding a tap directly to the rail for a fuel pressure gauge is also a good idea. I have mine on the passenger side, near the middle of the rail.

"slopok"

What kind of FPR are you using? Some of the better ones actually release pressure on shutoff, to take the pressure off the injectors. I have a Weldon AFPR that does that, and restart is no problem.... turn the key to "on" until the pump shuts itself off, turn to start and it fires right up.

steve10358

Thanks for the info Fred! As for the regulator, I hadn't even begun to reseach it yet.

So, what you are suggesting, is that I run a split before and after the rails? Do you have any pictures of your setup?

rskrause

Steve: two -8 lines from the tank, one to each pump. -8 lines from each pump to a "Y". One -10 from the "Y" to the engine compartment "Y". Two -8 from the enigne compartment "Y" to the stock rails (with welded AN fittings). Two -8 lines from the rails (welded fittings) to the regulator. One -10 return line from the regulator back to the tank.

It's way overkill, as it should support 1,600hp! But I had to redo the whole thing anyway and decided to do it once. So everything is oversized. We used 10ga wire for the pump, for example, to avoid any voltage drop. The second pump is activated only at WOT. If it heats the fuel too much I will get a controller for the primary pump.

The prior system was maxed at a bit over 700rwhp, I could see a FP drop with the N2O activated though it was plenty rich. I don't know how much hp the new setup makes. The loose converter prevents us from getting accurate dyno numbers. But using the BSFC numbers from last year and the pw's we saw on the dyno it should be at the 700rwhp level now without nitrous (it was 600 last year). I'll have to rely on trap speeds to really verify this though.

Unless you are going to be making >700rwhp I'd say upgrade the in-tank and use the B-a-P or equivalent. It's a lot cheaper and easier, espeically with keeping the stock lines, rails, and regulator. Also, did I mention how noisy those pumps are?

Rich Krause

Injuneer

My setup:

Bosch 205lph pump in stock location, -6AN discharge line (supports 500HP NA)

Bosch 205lph pump fed from a sump on the tank. Screen in tank, -10AN suction line, -6AN discharge line (this pump only runs when the nitrous "arm" switch is on - supports a 300-shot, and could handle more)

The two -6AN pump discharge lines combine in an NOS -6AN "Y" fitting.

-6AN line to an SX billet fuel filter in stock location

-6AN line from SX filter to a point up behing the engine.

-6an splits, via another NOS "Y" and feeds a -6AN line into the back of each fuel rail. -6AN fitting welded to each rail.

-Passenger side rail has a 1/8" NPT bung in the middle for fuel pressure gauge sensor.

-6AN fitting welded to the diagonal crossover pipe at the front of the rails, for return line.

-6AN return line from diagonal rail to a Weldon AFPR hanging under the cowl.

-6AN line from the Weldon AFPR to the normal return on the fuel tank.

return line fitting

Weldon AFPR, dual -6AN feeds into back of rails

Pressure sensor on rail

Outboard pump, Y and filter

Another view of pump

This setup will support 1,000HP. It was installed by the same shop that did George Baxter's. They also used in on John McMullin's 1,000+HP 25TA, but instead of using a single return connection at the diagonal crossover point, they drilled a hole on the top of the front end of each rail, and welded on a -6AN fitting, two lines into an NOS "Y", etc. for the return.

George's latest setup is intended to support 1,600HP and uses a -10AN supply line. You can see them fitting the -10AN line in this picture. . Yes, all that plumbing fits under a stock SS hood.... .