LT1 Based Engine Tech 1993-1997 LT1/LT4 Engine Related

finding the cause of a dtc p0174

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Old Nov 3, 2010 | 07:46 PM
  #1  
REDLT4's Avatar
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finding the cause of a dtc p0174

96 Corvette LT4

I have this code (bank 2 lean) and can't find the cause. I have looked at a datalog which shows bank 2 is definately getting more short term fuel correction than bank one, but I can't find the source of the problem. The O2 sensor is varying voltage like the other ones, no obvious vacuum leaks, no driveability problems, and I've looked and listened, but can't find a leak on the exhaust manifold either. I'm guessing the sensor could still be giving false readings, and swapping them to see if the problem follows, I guess is my next step. Anyone have any insight? I'll include a couple of snapshots of my car at idle, if anyone can help.

The format for this is (query, value, metric, timestamp)

0104,2,False,11/3/2010 5:48:31 PM
0105,212,False,11/3/2010 5:48:31 PM
0106,7,False,11/3/2010 5:48:31 PM
0107,25,False,11/3/2010 5:48:31 PM
0108,17,False,11/3/2010 5:48:31 PM
0109,25,False,11/3/2010 5:48:31 PM
010A,NO DATA,True,11/3/2010 5:48:32 PM
010B,5.23,False,11/3/2010 5:48:32 PM
010C,721,False,11/3/2010 5:48:32 PM
010D,NO DATA,True,11/3/2010 5:48:32 PM
010E,-13,False,11/3/2010 5:48:32 PM
010F,82.4,False,11/3/2010 5:48:32 PM
0110,5,False,11/3/2010 5:48:32 PM
0111,0,False,11/3/2010 5:48:32 PM
0114,0.78,False,11/3/2010 5:48:32 PM
0115,0.72,False,11/3/2010 5:48:33 PM
0116,NO DATA,True,11/3/2010 5:48:33 PM
0117,NO DATA,True,11/3/2010 5:48:33 PM
0118,0.765,False,11/3/2010 5:48:33 PM
0119,0.11,False,11/3/2010 5:48:33 PM

0104,2,False,11/3/2010 5:48:34 PM
0105,210.2,False,11/3/2010 5:48:34 PM
0106,5,False,11/3/2010 5:48:34 PM
0107,25,False,11/3/2010 5:48:34 PM
0108,18,False,11/3/2010 5:48:34 PM
0109,25,False,11/3/2010 5:48:34 PM
010A,NO DATA,True,11/3/2010 5:48:35 PM
010B,5.23,False,11/3/2010 5:48:35 PM
010C,710,False,11/3/2010 5:48:35 PM
010D,NO DATA,True,11/3/2010 5:48:35 PM
010E,-14,False,11/3/2010 5:48:35 PM
010F,82.4,False,11/3/2010 5:48:35 PM
0110,5,False,11/3/2010 5:48:35 PM
0111,0,False,11/3/2010 5:48:35 PM
0114,0.085,False,11/3/2010 5:48:35 PM
0115,0.695,False,11/3/2010 5:48:36 PM
0116,NO DATA,True,11/3/2010 5:48:36 PM
0117,NO DATA,True,11/3/2010 5:48:36 PM
0118,0.48,False,11/3/2010 5:48:36 PM
0119,0.65,False,11/3/2010 5:48:36 PM

0104,2,False,11/3/2010 5:48:37 PM
0105,210.2,False,11/3/2010 5:48:37 PM
0106,5,False,11/3/2010 5:48:37 PM
0107,25,False,11/3/2010 5:48:37 PM
0108,16,False,11/3/2010 5:48:37 PM
0109,25,False,11/3/2010 5:48:37 PM
010A,NO DATA,True,11/3/2010 5:48:38 PM
010B,5.23,False,11/3/2010 5:48:38 PM
010C,710,False,11/3/2010 5:48:38 PM
010D,NO DATA,True,11/3/2010 5:48:38 PM
010E,-13,False,11/3/2010 5:48:38 PM
010F,82.4,False,11/3/2010 5:48:38 PM
0110,5,False,11/3/2010 5:48:38 PM
0111,0,False,11/3/2010 5:48:38 PM
0114,0.085,False,11/3/2010 5:48:38 PM
0115,0.69,False,11/3/2010 5:48:39 PM
0116,NO DATA,True,11/3/2010 5:48:39 PM
0117,NO DATA,True,11/3/2010 5:48:39 PM
0118,0.39,False,11/3/2010 5:48:39 PM
0119,0.095,False,11/3/2010 5:48:39 PM

Also here is a chart to show what the queries are.

0x04 Calculated engine load value
0x05 Engine coolant temperature
0x06 Short term fuel % trim - Bank 1
0x07 Long term fuel % trim - Bank 1
0x08 Short term fuel % trim - Bank 2
0x09 Long term fuel % trim - Bank 2
0x0A Fuel pressure
0x0B Intake manifold pressure
0x0C Engine RPM
0x0D Vehicle speed
0x0E Timing advance
0x0F Intake air temperature
0x10 Mass air flow rate
0x11 Throttle position
0x12 Secondary air status
0x13 Oxygen sensors present
0x14 Oxygen sensor voltage, Short term fuel trim (Bank 1, Sensor 1)
0x15 Oxygen sensor voltage, Short term fuel trim (Bank 1, Sensor 2)
0x16 Oxygen sensor voltage, Short term fuel trim (Bank 1, Sensor 3)
0x17 Oxygen sensor voltage, Short term fuel trim (Bank 1, Sensor 4)
0x18 Oxygen sensor voltage, Short term fuel trim (Bank 2, Sensor 1)
0x19 Oxygen sensor voltage, Short term fuel trim (Bank 2, Sensor 2)

I'm not really versed with all of these readings(some I understand), so anyone who has insight into this, your help is greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance.
Old Nov 3, 2010 | 08:23 PM
  #2  
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Re: finding the cause of a dtc p0174

Check MAF and check injector ohms.
Old Nov 3, 2010 | 08:37 PM
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Re: finding the cause of a dtc p0174

I will try and ohm the pass. side injectors tomorrow.

I removed and cleaned the MAF with appropriate cleaner. How does one test the MAF?
Old Nov 4, 2010 | 05:14 AM
  #4  
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Re: finding the cause of a dtc p0174

Check the MAF readings with the scanner. If you engine is relatively stock (you've provided no info at all with regard to modifications) you should see 6 - 10 GPS at idle and about 240 GPS at WOT/max RPM. The output from the MAF is a variable frequency. About 2,500 Hz at idle, and about 9,000 Hz at 240 GPS.

What scanner are you using? If review over 1,000 scans for people, and I've never seen one in that format. Your car does not have a Bank 1 Sensor 3 or Sensor 4, which would explain "NO DATA".
Old Nov 4, 2010 | 05:54 AM
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Re: finding the cause of a dtc p0174

Only Mod is after cat exhaust.
querey 0110 shows an output of 5(I'm guessing it's gps). And this is at 710rpms(according to query 010C). . I can hook the scanner up to check MAF readings at WOT later today. I'm using Digimoto scanning software for the info.
Old Nov 4, 2010 | 07:36 AM
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Re: finding the cause of a dtc p0174

Checked MAF (it is in GPS) and it spiked on the live scan with WOT, so I'm guessing that is working correctly. Unless 5 GPS at idle is an issue? Will check the injectors a little later today. Also, generally speaking, the short term fuel trim % for bank 2 runs 2x the % for bank 1.

Last edited by REDLT4; Nov 4, 2010 at 07:49 AM.
Old Nov 4, 2010 | 09:32 AM
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Re: finding the cause of a dtc p0174

i would think that if it was a MAF issue then both sides would have a issue.

I would sway the o2 and see if the code switches banks. i have seen this on ltx alot with the o2 but could be something else as well. i have not seen those reading on any scan tool either. Not a tech 2 thats for sure
Old Nov 4, 2010 | 09:58 AM
  #8  
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Re: finding the cause of a dtc p0174

When you say, "I have not seen those readings"do you mean you see different outputs all together, or the same info, just in a completely different format?
Old Nov 4, 2010 | 12:18 PM
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Re: finding the cause of a dtc p0174

i was trying to post up a picture of what i use most of the time on the GM cars with a Tech 2 Scan tool but it wont let me copy and paste.

I normally look at the values while car is running with live data scope that gives real time values of the o2 under load and at idel. you can drive around and record for future refrence.

I did see some values in what you listed but i personaly have not used what ever tool you used to pull that info.

And my last post i ment to say i wuld switch the o2 and see if the issues follow the switch and its bank 2 now.......
Old Nov 4, 2010 | 02:22 PM
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Re: finding the cause of a dtc p0174

Digimoto is the scan software, which works just like you say, I can watch it real time,but when I datalog, this output is what I get. Is there a free OBD-II scan software download?
Old Nov 4, 2010 | 03:06 PM
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Re: finding the cause of a dtc p0174

im not sure about free software but i like using ls1 edit on my stuff at home and if that dont have what i need i bring home a tech 2. Maybe someone else might know of one.

Since you already have software i would try switching the o2 and seeing what happens
Old Nov 4, 2010 | 03:32 PM
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Re: finding the cause of a dtc p0174

Originally Posted by REDLT4
Digimoto is the scan software, which works just like you say, I can watch it real time,but when I datalog, this output is what I get. Is there a free OBD-II scan software download?
http://www.ttspowersystems.com/DataM...ownloads2.html
Old Nov 4, 2010 | 06:36 PM
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Re: finding the cause of a dtc p0174

Thanks for the link, but my car is a 96 and not on that list. That is for OBD-1. Will it work anyway?

Injectors read 12.8-13.1 ohms, but, When I ohmed the injector for cylinder # 2 the first time, it read nearly 0. I then checked the rest and came back to that one only to find it now read 12.8 and stayed that way after repeated testing. (Maybe I shorted the pins together by mistake) It may be a few days before I can get the car on a lift to swap the 02's.

Last edited by REDLT4; Nov 4, 2010 at 06:41 PM.
Old Nov 4, 2010 | 07:04 PM
  #14  
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Re: finding the cause of a dtc p0174

DataMaster is OBD-I only.

AutoTap, with "GM enhanced parameters" is very good OBD-II scan/data logging software, but its not free, and not cheap. What I have not seen is the format you posted. It doesn't seem to be very user friendly. Most data loging software gives you the date with recognizable units of measurement, and the device or parameter label, not some sort of hex code.
Old Nov 4, 2010 | 08:15 PM
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Re: finding the cause of a dtc p0174

I agree, it is cumbersome, but this is not what I see when using the software. It is as you describe with the units of measure, and the description right next to it. The problem is when I use the datalogging feature, this type of output is what I get.



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