and the pros and cons of both mechanical and electric water pumps were discussed several times before in multiple threads.

From all the reading I have done, it has broken down to this.

Mechanical: Yes it is better for road racing and some prefer it on daily driver cars opposed to electric water pumps. This is because in auto cross and other forms of road racing, you spend a lot of your times in the upper rpms, where your water pump is flowing more. a mechanical has it's drawback because it is gear driven, so it takes a little bit of power to make the impellers turn. Also when your car is idling, it is more prone to run at higher temps, seeing how your rpm is so low. Most people prefer these on daily drivers because when they go bad, they tend to go bad gradually (not all the time), so the operator has ample time to drive it home/garage/shop and swap it out without over heating.

Electrical: More intended for drag strip cars. It is electrical, so you free up some horsepower (there is a dyno sheet floating around here that showed somewhere around 10 at the wheels). They flow at their rate all the time... this is a good thing and bad thing. When you are idling you have a better flow rate then a mechanical water pump, but when you are at higher rpms, you may or may not, depending on which electric water pump you get. Having an electric water pump also allows you to run a stronger timing gear set, i.e. the cloyes double roller, seeing how there no longer is a gear in the timing set for the water pump. Another benifiet of having an electric water pump is that it can be ran, while the car is off. It is a popular trick drag cars use... they run their fans and water pumps to a switch and turn them on while the car is off, lowering the temps of the engine.
The drawback of electric water pumps is that when they go bad, they go bad . No warning. So if you are in the middle of a long trip and your water pump goes bad, you are sol unless you have another water pump in your car. You can go maybe a mile before your car over heats with a non-operational water pump.

Back the to the meziere water pumps. There is nothing wrong with the regular electric water pump, I have one myself, but like i said before.. there are mixed reviews about the HD version. I would not even look at that unless you have a fairly high output engine. That's personal opinion though... it appears some people think different about that.



I hope that clears everything up and rectifies all the nasty rumors.

 

thanks, thats all i really wanted to hear. all the threads you can look through seem to be all bs to me...people argueing which one is better for this and that. stuff that doesnt even pertain to the initail question. thanks

 

danhr, you still do not grasp this nearly as well as you think you do. You try to dismiss those of us who do have some understanding as dragging things oof toopic when what we are doing is presenting meaningful info to help the poster make an INFORMED decision rather than one based on the VAST amounts of missinformation people like you love to spread.

You say the electric results in a HP gain by running off the electrical system, well the electrical system is run off the motor and by making the pump electric you now have to change forms of energy from rotation to electricity and back to rotation which is terribly inefficient.
Yes an electric WP results in a hp gain but does so by moving FAR less water. You want to doubt that the mechanical outflows ALL electrics by a BIG margin. Read the descriptions, the electric flow ratings are freeflow, the mechanical's measured 65gpm at 6K rpm by SAE is on the engine, a signifigant restriction.

If you honestly think you can do the same amount of work(flow) and use less energy(HP) by converting back and forth from rotation to electricity back to rotation then you need to stop wasting time on some stupid car and go build us a perpetual motion machine to solve all the world's energy problems.

People like to use the "stronger timing chain" argument, but the stock WP takes 11hp to flow that 65gmp at 6k rpms even with that load you point out all the broken stock chains. I seem to have missed them, IF that was a valid argument but it is not imagine the extra margin of reliability in the timing set you could get just from going electric and taking that 11hp load off the chain.

I am not saying electrics are bad, I know I could pick up maybe .1 by going to one, what I am saying is that the vast majority of the "reasons" people like yopu use to convince yourselves and others to do this mod are WRONG. I will not appologize for my often futile attempts to get people to think and understand the processes involved.

The flow argument is pertinent because you made the absurd claim that the HD electrics moved too much water, that is what I initially replied too.

 

I never once said the electic water pumps outflowed the mechanical water pumps. They come close to the flow rate of the mechanical, but you keep quoting the flow raate at 6,000 rpms... how often is the driver at that rpms to keep the flow that high. The only thing I stated was that the flow rate was all the time, as opposed to the mechanical which is variable on the engine's rpm. I am not here to argue which is better, mechanical or electrical, because it is a never ending argument... we might as well start a import vs. domestic conversation. The poster wanted to know which electrical to get, I gave my input.

 

I post the 6K rpm number because that is when the motor sees highest load and needs the most cooling. Ever notice you can leave a car idle for 15 minutes and they are not up to temp at least not in winter but in 5 minutes of even easy driving they are warm? Load dictates cooling needs the motor does not need a lot of cooling at idle.

This is why I kept hammering on the flow. You DID claim electrics could compete flow wise at high rpm, but that is just not possible given the amount of HP they do free up. People talk efficiency gains but a more efficient impeller is not going to offset two energy form changes and move more water with a fraction the power usage. The alternator at peak output and 100% efficiency can support 2.5hp if the electric motor is 100% efficient too, but the alternator has to power MUCH more than just a WP. an 8amp motor like the HD Meziere is something like .15hp about the same as a a basic basement sump pump.


I know many of you don't like when I try to inject facts into discussions but take the time to understand things and you will get more bang for your buck.

 

Back on topic:

CSR all the way. Great pump, great customer service, and very good price!

 

Thats all fine and great but the electric pump flows more water at idle and low speeds then the stock pump. This is usually where people have over heating problems is sitting in traffic or stop and go driving. Many of us daily drive our cars so the loss of flow in the upper rpm's isn't a big deal. Hopefully my car would never be in the upper RPM's more than about 12 seconds. I do see that you're correct in that the stock pump does flow more but in an area where most of us don't need the extra flow. There is no need to come on here and find every little electric waterpump thread and try to turn it into a stock pump is more efficient thread.

 

No, by all means give more info.. there is no such thing as bad info.. i'm rather enjoying this.. I'm learning a thing or two...

by the comment you bolding... it was rather vague... the meziere hd flows at 55 or 55 gpm... while the stock is 65 @ 6000 rpms but at 4,000 rpms ( i consider that high) the electric outflows the mechanical... well.. only the heavy duty... hence the whole "depending on what electric water pump you get" comment

 

I have used mechanical and EWP's while course racing and can say that the CSR did just about the same cooling of my 383 as the mechanical did when it was a stock 350.

I like electric for many reason but it fits my car use well as I don't take long trips in the 'Hawk.

 

I have the standard Mezeire, and regardless of what anyone claims they flow or don't flow, my car runs cooler with it (all the time) than it did with the stock pump, both with my old stock engine and with the 383 ( I changed to a BeCool radiator with the 383, so I can't give the pump all the credit). I changed to the Mezeire not because it gave me any HP, but because I have had two failures with GM pumps (the original, and the GM replacement) after very few miles (about 35k), and frankly don't trust them. It may be a freak thing, but both of mine GUSHED coolant from the weep hole and gave NO warning whatsoever, and the last one did it in bumper to bumper summer rush hour traffic and I lost a head gasket because of it.

 

I run the CSR, working great so far.

This is the only E/WP I have ever used because in
my entire driving experience I have never encountered
a more unreliable pump than the stock LT1. Went through
three, with 20k from the best one. Replacements were genuine,
from Jason.

Normally I would expect 80 to 120k from a mech W/P.
I got 100k from a '79 Z that I auto-x.