Coating the underside of the intake manifold to reduce heatsoak?
03-20-2007, 10:17 AM
#1
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Coating the underside of the intake manifold to reduce heatsoak?
Essentially coating the underside of the lt1 manifold with some type of heat blocking paint/coating? Perhaps like how pistons are now being coated these days? I know it would have to help some because that intake really heats up fast by all that hot oil.
03-20-2007, 11:02 AM
#2
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Location: Friendswood, TX, USA
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I wouldn't! This stuff sounds neat, but what's the real gain???
Say you have 450hp and you do this, could you even see an increase of ANY kind on the dyno??
So unless your pro-race in a restricted engine class and can afford to put $20,000 or $30,000+ into your engine there are other things I would do first.
Say you have 450hp and you do this, could you even see an increase of ANY kind on the dyno??
So unless your pro-race in a restricted engine class and can afford to put $20,000 or $30,000+ into your engine there are other things I would do first.
03-20-2007, 11:04 AM
#3
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Location: Baton Rouge, LA
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Make a shield, itl'l work better. Look at a LS1 with the intake off (oil valley is completely blocked off) and make something similar for a LT1, itl'l keep it much cooler than a coating would and be much cheaper.
03-20-2007, 11:27 AM
#5
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TBH I think most of the head comes from convection from the heads and not the oil as there is already a small shield under the manifold (Although its purpose isnt to shield from oil it does do it somewhat). But who knows, its impossible to find out without experimenting. Maybe someday when I get the cash Il'l buy a used manifold and try making a shield for it.
03-20-2007, 11:28 AM
#6
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Location: Aurora, IL
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I have heard of people coating the undersides of their manifolds. Whether it translates into real number gains on the dyno, I don't know. If the service comes at a marginal cost, then it probably wouldn't hurt to try out.
03-20-2007, 11:36 AM
#7
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A shield would be more effective than a coating. A coated shield would be ideal though. Theoretically a shield shouldn't cost more than 10$ mass produced, but since the LT1 is such a small market it would probably be closer to 40$.
03-20-2007, 11:41 AM
#9
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03-20-2007, 12:39 PM
#10
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Location: Lexington Park, Maryland, USA
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You might give consideration to an epoxy thermal coating of the inside of the intake manifold, (and of the underside). Natural and nitrous motors can bennefit very much from an intake manifold internal thermal coating but probably not a blower motor. I have 2 manifolds coated and I know of 2 other LT1 manifolds coated with this epoxy. In the Impala SS world we call the modification "The Stonbreaker thermal coated epoxy intake manifold mod". It's almost "easy" to do (I say that because I did it).
Here is a good quote from the originator of the idea/modification Randy Stone.
What I found was that the ceramic coating has about half the heat conductivity of bare aluminum. However, I also found that industrial epoxy potting compound only conducts about 10% of the heat that bare aluminum does.
Get your intake professionally cleaned - preferably sandblasted. The epoxy won't stick to any surface with the smallest amount of grease on it. Then go to www.epoxies.com and buy the smallest amount of part# 20-3300 you can get away with. They have little 8oz sample jars, which is just enough to coat one intake. See if they will sell you a sample. Otherwise, you will have to buy two gallons of the stuff at a cost of about $100. (A gallon of resin and a gallon of hardener.)
This formula, 20-3300, has a working range of -70 to +260 deg C (-158 to +500 deg F)and is designed to have thermal expansion properties similar to metal.
Mix up about two cups of epoxy according to the instructions. Coat the inside and bottom of the intake with the epoxy. I used cheap sponge brushes and rollers bought at Home Depot. This stuff is industrial. You have to cure it at 250 deg F just to harden it up. The intake won't fit in a regular oven, but it fit my gas BBQ grill just fine. Leave it in the grill for an hour on low.
Helpful hints: It makes it much easier to get the roller on the inside of the intake if you cut the front two openings for the throttle body into one big oval opening. I used the narrowest roller handle, sponge rollers, and a wooden extension that screws into the base of the roller handle, all from Home Depot, to coat the inside of the plenum, as well as sponge brushes for the ports.
Epoxy cleans up easily with alcohol, so if you make a mistake or get any on you just use an alcohol-soaked rag to clean.
This mod gave me about .15 seconds in the quarter. Not much, but it's a good return on investment.
--------------------
Stonebreaker
355 ci
11.99 at 115mph on 150 hp nitrous
2002 ECIRS CHAMPION
Ph.D. in R.E. (Redneck Engineering)
Well, it works in practice... But will it work in theory?
Karl Ellwein
Here is a good quote from the originator of the idea/modification Randy Stone.
What I found was that the ceramic coating has about half the heat conductivity of bare aluminum. However, I also found that industrial epoxy potting compound only conducts about 10% of the heat that bare aluminum does.
Get your intake professionally cleaned - preferably sandblasted. The epoxy won't stick to any surface with the smallest amount of grease on it. Then go to www.epoxies.com and buy the smallest amount of part# 20-3300 you can get away with. They have little 8oz sample jars, which is just enough to coat one intake. See if they will sell you a sample. Otherwise, you will have to buy two gallons of the stuff at a cost of about $100. (A gallon of resin and a gallon of hardener.)
This formula, 20-3300, has a working range of -70 to +260 deg C (-158 to +500 deg F)and is designed to have thermal expansion properties similar to metal.
Mix up about two cups of epoxy according to the instructions. Coat the inside and bottom of the intake with the epoxy. I used cheap sponge brushes and rollers bought at Home Depot. This stuff is industrial. You have to cure it at 250 deg F just to harden it up. The intake won't fit in a regular oven, but it fit my gas BBQ grill just fine. Leave it in the grill for an hour on low.
Helpful hints: It makes it much easier to get the roller on the inside of the intake if you cut the front two openings for the throttle body into one big oval opening. I used the narrowest roller handle, sponge rollers, and a wooden extension that screws into the base of the roller handle, all from Home Depot, to coat the inside of the plenum, as well as sponge brushes for the ports.
Epoxy cleans up easily with alcohol, so if you make a mistake or get any on you just use an alcohol-soaked rag to clean.
This mod gave me about .15 seconds in the quarter. Not much, but it's a good return on investment.
--------------------
Stonebreaker
355 ci
11.99 at 115mph on 150 hp nitrous
2002 ECIRS CHAMPION
Ph.D. in R.E. (Redneck Engineering)
Well, it works in practice... But will it work in theory?
Karl Ellwein
03-20-2007, 02:40 PM
#12
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Aurora, IL
Posts: 12,312
You might give consideration to an epoxy thermal coating of the inside of the intake manifold, (and of the underside). Natural and nitrous motors can bennefit very much from an intake manifold internal thermal coating but probably not a blower motor. I have 2 manifolds coated and I know of 2 other LT1 manifolds coated with this epoxy. In the Impala SS world we call the modification "The Stonbreaker thermal coated epoxy intake manifold mod". It's almost "easy" to do (I say that because I did it).
Here is a good quote from the originator of the idea/modification Randy Stone.
What I found was that the ceramic coating has about half the heat conductivity of bare aluminum. However, I also found that industrial epoxy potting compound only conducts about 10% of the heat that bare aluminum does.
Get your intake professionally cleaned - preferably sandblasted. The epoxy won't stick to any surface with the smallest amount of grease on it. Then go to www.epoxies.com and buy the smallest amount of part# 20-3300 you can get away with. They have little 8oz sample jars, which is just enough to coat one intake. See if they will sell you a sample. Otherwise, you will have to buy two gallons of the stuff at a cost of about $100. (A gallon of resin and a gallon of hardener.)
This formula, 20-3300, has a working range of -70 to +260 deg C (-158 to +500 deg F)and is designed to have thermal expansion properties similar to metal.
Mix up about two cups of epoxy according to the instructions. Coat the inside and bottom of the intake with the epoxy. I used cheap sponge brushes and rollers bought at Home Depot. This stuff is industrial. You have to cure it at 250 deg F just to harden it up. The intake won't fit in a regular oven, but it fit my gas BBQ grill just fine. Leave it in the grill for an hour on low.
Helpful hints: It makes it much easier to get the roller on the inside of the intake if you cut the front two openings for the throttle body into one big oval opening. I used the narrowest roller handle, sponge rollers, and a wooden extension that screws into the base of the roller handle, all from Home Depot, to coat the inside of the plenum, as well as sponge brushes for the ports.
Epoxy cleans up easily with alcohol, so if you make a mistake or get any on you just use an alcohol-soaked rag to clean.
This mod gave me about .15 seconds in the quarter. Not much, but it's a good return on investment.
--------------------
Stonebreaker
355 ci
11.99 at 115mph on 150 hp nitrous
2002 ECIRS CHAMPION
Ph.D. in R.E. (Redneck Engineering)
Well, it works in practice... But will it work in theory?
Karl Ellwein
Here is a good quote from the originator of the idea/modification Randy Stone.
What I found was that the ceramic coating has about half the heat conductivity of bare aluminum. However, I also found that industrial epoxy potting compound only conducts about 10% of the heat that bare aluminum does.
Get your intake professionally cleaned - preferably sandblasted. The epoxy won't stick to any surface with the smallest amount of grease on it. Then go to www.epoxies.com and buy the smallest amount of part# 20-3300 you can get away with. They have little 8oz sample jars, which is just enough to coat one intake. See if they will sell you a sample. Otherwise, you will have to buy two gallons of the stuff at a cost of about $100. (A gallon of resin and a gallon of hardener.)
This formula, 20-3300, has a working range of -70 to +260 deg C (-158 to +500 deg F)and is designed to have thermal expansion properties similar to metal.
Mix up about two cups of epoxy according to the instructions. Coat the inside and bottom of the intake with the epoxy. I used cheap sponge brushes and rollers bought at Home Depot. This stuff is industrial. You have to cure it at 250 deg F just to harden it up. The intake won't fit in a regular oven, but it fit my gas BBQ grill just fine. Leave it in the grill for an hour on low.
Helpful hints: It makes it much easier to get the roller on the inside of the intake if you cut the front two openings for the throttle body into one big oval opening. I used the narrowest roller handle, sponge rollers, and a wooden extension that screws into the base of the roller handle, all from Home Depot, to coat the inside of the plenum, as well as sponge brushes for the ports.
Epoxy cleans up easily with alcohol, so if you make a mistake or get any on you just use an alcohol-soaked rag to clean.
This mod gave me about .15 seconds in the quarter. Not much, but it's a good return on investment.
--------------------
Stonebreaker
355 ci
11.99 at 115mph on 150 hp nitrous
2002 ECIRS CHAMPION
Ph.D. in R.E. (Redneck Engineering)
Well, it works in practice... But will it work in theory?
Karl Ellwein
03-20-2007, 03:02 PM
#13
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Baton Rouge, LA
Posts: 747
The only thing is i'm not sure i'd port the inside of the manifold. The outside if it flakes off itl'l just get caught in the pickup screen or hang out in the lifter valley. the inside if it flakes off its in your combustion chamber and depending on how strong the epoxy is it might just cause valve damage or worse... it might punch a hole in the head right into a water passage.
