Castrol Syntec 0w-30 German...Good for LT1?
07-27-2006, 02:25 PM
#61
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 249
Re: Castrol Syntec 0w-30 German...Good for LT1?
I would just like to add that I ran M1 0W-40 for a few changes in both my cars and it did not sound particularly healthy on startup, especially in the winter. I've switched to GC 0W-30 and it's much better. Oil pressure at hot idle on both is somewhere between 10 and 15 psi which is JUST FINE. I go 6-7.5k between changes, and I've removed my Caprice's oil cooler. Even after a long highway drive with the A/C (3.42 gears) the oil pressure reads no less than 10-15psi hot idle and about 45psi at cruise.
Last edited by kevm14; 07-27-2006 at 02:29 PM.
07-27-2006, 03:28 PM
#63
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Join Date: May 2003
Location: LA (lower Alabama)
Posts: 6,661
Re: Castrol Syntec 0w-30 German...Good for LT1?
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-------- news update --------
#225 TECH BULLETIN: Flat Tappet Camshafts
Recent changes in oil and engine technology are likely the cause of premature camshaft failure; here’s what you can do to protect your engine! Premature flat tappet camshaft failure has been an issue of late and not just with one brand or type of camshaft. In almost every case, the hardness or the taper of the cam lobe is suspected, yet most of the time that is not the problem. This growing trend is due to factors that are unrelated to camshaft manufacture or quality. Changes in today`s oil products and “advanced” internal engine design have contributed to a harsher environment for the camshaft and a potential for failure during break-in. But there are several things you can do to turn the tide on this discouraging trend.
Proper Camshaft Set-Up & Break-In
Proper flat tappet camshaft set-up and break-in, as any engine builder knows, are keys to how long a camshaft will last, both short and long term. Making certain that the camshaft and lifters are properly lubricated will guarantee that the camshaft and lifters are protected during the critical initial start-up of your newly-built engine. COMP Cams® offers the right product for this job (Part #154), and it is available in several different size containers for engine builder convenience. To further enhance this “relationship,” we strongly recommend the use of COMP Cams® Camshaft Break-In Oil Additive (Part #159) during the break-in. While this additive was originally developed specifically for break-in protection, subsequent testing has proven the durability benefits of its long term use. This special blend of additives promotes proper break-in and protects against premature cam and lifter failure by replacing some of the beneficial ingredients that the oil companies have been required to remove from off-the-shelf oil. These specialized COMP Cams® lubricants are the best “insurance policy” you can buy and the first step to avoiding durability problems with your new flat tappet camshaft.
Adequate Lubrication
Another major factor in the increase of flat tappet camshaft failure is your favorite brand of engine oil. Simply put, today’s engine oil is just not the same as it used to be, thanks to ever tightening environmental regulations. The EPA has done a great job in reducing emissions and the effects of some of the ingredients found in traditional oils; however these changes to the oil have only made life tougher on your camshaft. The lubricity of the oil and specifically the reduction of important additives such as zinc and manganese, which help break-in and overall camshaft life, have been drastically reduced. In terms of oil selection, we recommend Shell Rotella T oil for the break-in procedure. Most often used in diesel engine applications, this higher lubricity oil works in gasoline engines as well.
Today’s engines are great at providing oil to every engine component except one - your camshaft. Windage trays, limiting oil’s ability to reach the top of the engine, modification of connecting rod side clearances for less splash oil and special oil pans further complicate both the break-in process and camshaft operation in general. But there are several things you can do to correct these problems.
COMP Cams® offers flat tappet lifters with oiling holes in the cam face surface, which will increase oil flow to the lifter-camshaft lobe contact point. Furthermore, using a lifter bore grooving tool (COMP Cams® #5003) will enhance oiling throughout the camshaft and valve train. As we all know by now, better oil flow means better initial break-in and increased camshaft durability.
Flat Tappet Lifter Selection – Choose Carefully!
In addition to these engine modifications, make certain you purchase high-quality lifters. Most lifters look alike, but you don’t really know where they were produced. “Imported” flat tappets often times use inferior lifter castings and DO NOT deliver the durability of COMP Cams® high-quality, US-built lifters. COMP Cams® lifters are built to strict diameter and radius tolerances and designed to fit precisely within their lifter bores. This ensures the lifter rotates properly and decreases the potential for failure. Additionally, COMP Cams® Flat Tappet Lifters have the correct oil band depth and location to properly regulate the internal oiling of your engine.
Five steps to increased flat tappet camshaft durability:
• Double check your camshaft and lifter set-up prior to the break-in process, and use an ample amount of the supplied assembly lube on all lobes, distributor gear and the face of bottom of each lifter.
• Use high-lubricity engine oil such as Shell Rotella T oil to help during the break-in process and use COMP Cams® Camshaft Break-In Oil Additive (Part #159).
• Use flat tappet lifters with cam face oiling provisions, such as COMP Cams® Part #800-16 (GM) or #817-16 (Ford).
• Use a COMP Cams® Lifter Bore Grooving Tool (#5003) to increase oiling.
• Use high-quality, U.S.-built COMP Cams® lifters to make certain you are receiving the best quality lifter you can buy. Avoid “brown bag” lifters.
225TechBulletin.
I WILL say this, IF Comp is having trouble breaking in flat tappet cams(read:metal to metal) Then what ya think about the rest of your engine and what is going on inside.
Todays oil has had MOST of the additaves taken OUT for polution concerns.This is why they reccomend the DIESEL oil 'cause it has still got it. To me the most important one is ZINC which is an anti wear additive.
Ya'll do what ya want but for me it will always be Kendall GT-1 the original green formula that ya can again purchase. From below.
http://www.amref.com/
-------- news update --------
#225 TECH BULLETIN: Flat Tappet Camshafts
Recent changes in oil and engine technology are likely the cause of premature camshaft failure; here’s what you can do to protect your engine! Premature flat tappet camshaft failure has been an issue of late and not just with one brand or type of camshaft. In almost every case, the hardness or the taper of the cam lobe is suspected, yet most of the time that is not the problem. This growing trend is due to factors that are unrelated to camshaft manufacture or quality. Changes in today`s oil products and “advanced” internal engine design have contributed to a harsher environment for the camshaft and a potential for failure during break-in. But there are several things you can do to turn the tide on this discouraging trend.
Proper Camshaft Set-Up & Break-In
Proper flat tappet camshaft set-up and break-in, as any engine builder knows, are keys to how long a camshaft will last, both short and long term. Making certain that the camshaft and lifters are properly lubricated will guarantee that the camshaft and lifters are protected during the critical initial start-up of your newly-built engine. COMP Cams® offers the right product for this job (Part #154), and it is available in several different size containers for engine builder convenience. To further enhance this “relationship,” we strongly recommend the use of COMP Cams® Camshaft Break-In Oil Additive (Part #159) during the break-in. While this additive was originally developed specifically for break-in protection, subsequent testing has proven the durability benefits of its long term use. This special blend of additives promotes proper break-in and protects against premature cam and lifter failure by replacing some of the beneficial ingredients that the oil companies have been required to remove from off-the-shelf oil. These specialized COMP Cams® lubricants are the best “insurance policy” you can buy and the first step to avoiding durability problems with your new flat tappet camshaft.
Adequate Lubrication
Another major factor in the increase of flat tappet camshaft failure is your favorite brand of engine oil. Simply put, today’s engine oil is just not the same as it used to be, thanks to ever tightening environmental regulations. The EPA has done a great job in reducing emissions and the effects of some of the ingredients found in traditional oils; however these changes to the oil have only made life tougher on your camshaft. The lubricity of the oil and specifically the reduction of important additives such as zinc and manganese, which help break-in and overall camshaft life, have been drastically reduced. In terms of oil selection, we recommend Shell Rotella T oil for the break-in procedure. Most often used in diesel engine applications, this higher lubricity oil works in gasoline engines as well.
Today’s engines are great at providing oil to every engine component except one - your camshaft. Windage trays, limiting oil’s ability to reach the top of the engine, modification of connecting rod side clearances for less splash oil and special oil pans further complicate both the break-in process and camshaft operation in general. But there are several things you can do to correct these problems.
COMP Cams® offers flat tappet lifters with oiling holes in the cam face surface, which will increase oil flow to the lifter-camshaft lobe contact point. Furthermore, using a lifter bore grooving tool (COMP Cams® #5003) will enhance oiling throughout the camshaft and valve train. As we all know by now, better oil flow means better initial break-in and increased camshaft durability.
Flat Tappet Lifter Selection – Choose Carefully!
In addition to these engine modifications, make certain you purchase high-quality lifters. Most lifters look alike, but you don’t really know where they were produced. “Imported” flat tappets often times use inferior lifter castings and DO NOT deliver the durability of COMP Cams® high-quality, US-built lifters. COMP Cams® lifters are built to strict diameter and radius tolerances and designed to fit precisely within their lifter bores. This ensures the lifter rotates properly and decreases the potential for failure. Additionally, COMP Cams® Flat Tappet Lifters have the correct oil band depth and location to properly regulate the internal oiling of your engine.
Five steps to increased flat tappet camshaft durability:
• Double check your camshaft and lifter set-up prior to the break-in process, and use an ample amount of the supplied assembly lube on all lobes, distributor gear and the face of bottom of each lifter.
• Use high-lubricity engine oil such as Shell Rotella T oil to help during the break-in process and use COMP Cams® Camshaft Break-In Oil Additive (Part #159).
• Use flat tappet lifters with cam face oiling provisions, such as COMP Cams® Part #800-16 (GM) or #817-16 (Ford).
• Use a COMP Cams® Lifter Bore Grooving Tool (#5003) to increase oiling.
• Use high-quality, U.S.-built COMP Cams® lifters to make certain you are receiving the best quality lifter you can buy. Avoid “brown bag” lifters.
225TechBulletin.
I WILL say this, IF Comp is having trouble breaking in flat tappet cams(read:metal to metal) Then what ya think about the rest of your engine and what is going on inside.
Todays oil has had MOST of the additaves taken OUT for polution concerns.This is why they reccomend the DIESEL oil 'cause it has still got it. To me the most important one is ZINC which is an anti wear additive.
Ya'll do what ya want but for me it will always be Kendall GT-1 the original green formula that ya can again purchase. From below.
http://www.amref.com/
07-27-2006, 03:33 PM
#64
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 249
Re: Castrol Syntec 0w-30 German...Good for LT1?
Engines today last longer than ever. That's no coicidence. It's the oil.
Bearings aren't really metal to metal as there is pressure lube there. Rings are a different story altogether, I'd say. I'd say a flat tappet cam probably needs a certain type of oil more than anything else in the engine. Which means, since most of us don't run those, that entire writeup is irrelevant.
Bearings aren't really metal to metal as there is pressure lube there. Rings are a different story altogether, I'd say. I'd say a flat tappet cam probably needs a certain type of oil more than anything else in the engine. Which means, since most of us don't run those, that entire writeup is irrelevant.
07-27-2006, 03:56 PM
#65
Banned
Join Date: May 2003
Location: LA (lower Alabama)
Posts: 6,661
Re: Castrol Syntec 0w-30 German...Good for LT1?
Originally Posted by kevm14
Engines today last longer than ever. That's no coicidence. It's the oil.
Bearings aren't really metal to metal as there is pressure lube there. Rings are a different story altogether, I'd say. I'd say a flat tappet cam probably needs a certain type of oil more than anything else in the engine. Which means, since most of us don't run those, that entire writeup is irrelevant.
Bearings aren't really metal to metal as there is pressure lube there. Rings are a different story altogether, I'd say. I'd say a flat tappet cam probably needs a certain type of oil more than anything else in the engine. Which means, since most of us don't run those, that entire writeup is irrelevant.
BS
The bearings are metal to metal on start up,so are the rings,roller lifters,oil pump gears,timing chain,water pump drive. Ya think oil stays on them after ya park it? If not then what magic do you see retaing a film to protect it. There isn't one as there are not enough additives there in syn oil.
Everything in the entire engine is metal to metal at some point in it's duty cycle.
FWIW I had a '71 that had 210,000 miles on it before I flipped it.
Last edited by 1racerdude; 07-27-2006 at 03:58 PM.
07-27-2006, 06:05 PM
#66
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 249
Re: Castrol Syntec 0w-30 German...Good for LT1?
Originally Posted by 1racerdude
BS
The bearings are metal to metal on start up,so are the rings,roller lifters,oil pump gears,timing chain,water pump drive. Ya think oil stays on them after ya park it? If not then what magic do you see retaing a film to protect it. There isn't one as there are not enough additives there in syn oil.
Everything in the entire engine is metal to metal at some point in it's duty cycle.
FWIW I had a '71 that had 210,000 miles on it before I flipped it.
The bearings are metal to metal on start up,so are the rings,roller lifters,oil pump gears,timing chain,water pump drive. Ya think oil stays on them after ya park it? If not then what magic do you see retaing a film to protect it. There isn't one as there are not enough additives there in syn oil.
Everything in the entire engine is metal to metal at some point in it's duty cycle.
FWIW I had a '71 that had 210,000 miles on it before I flipped it.
Here is one thread on the matter, in fact:
http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/...c;f=1;t=015191
I think you'll be pleased to note that you are not the only one with this opinion (hardly a surprise to you, I'm sure). However, the jury is still out as far as pointing at new oils as the sole cause.
On the 71:
While you obviously achieved a reasonable mileage out of an older designed car, I think you'd have to admit that the average lifespan of an engine is much, much longer than it used to be.
07-27-2006, 06:33 PM
#67
Banned
Join Date: May 2003
Location: LA (lower Alabama)
Posts: 6,661
Re: Castrol Syntec 0w-30 German...Good for LT1?
Originally Posted by kevm14
I think the people that do oil research would disagree, as would some folks on Bob is the Oil Guy forum. While I'm not qualified to be definitive, I am pretty sure that the additive pack provides not insignificant protection between surfaces that WOULD be metal to metal if there was no protection, such as the ones you mentioned. Lack of oil pressure need not imply no barrier lubrication.
Here is one thread on the matter, in fact:
http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/...c;f=1;t=015191
I think you'll be pleased to note that you are not the only one with this opinion (hardly a surprise to you, I'm sure). However, the jury is still out as far as pointing at new oils as the sole cause.
On the 71:
While you obviously achieved a reasonable mileage out of an older designed car, I think you'd have to admit that the average lifespan of an engine is much, much longer than it used to be.
Here is one thread on the matter, in fact:
http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/...c;f=1;t=015191
I think you'll be pleased to note that you are not the only one with this opinion (hardly a surprise to you, I'm sure). However, the jury is still out as far as pointing at new oils as the sole cause.
On the 71:
While you obviously achieved a reasonable mileage out of an older designed car, I think you'd have to admit that the average lifespan of an engine is much, much longer than it used to be.
BETTER material is all that does that.
Jury is IN according to Comp.
If synthetic would do the job Comp would NOT have issued a bulletin on the topic of what oil to use.
So when a MAJOR player issues a bulletin and recommendation I tend to take heed.
Back in the '60's flat tappet and mech roller was ALL there was. I never failed a cam before/during/after break in.Of course that's with dino oil with the additives'.
Why ya think Crower,Isky and Comp came out with pressure oiled rollers?
How come they are not keeping the OIL sight's up to date. Every year they are removing more and more additives from the oil. So what was relative 3yrs ago is not relevant now.
Why ya think they have left the additives alone in diesel oil? Not too hard to figure out.
I have made my choice years ago and it WILL be the green oil going in my customers and personal builds. If they want to change,that's up to them,most don't.
If ya are going to pour additives in then why not get oil that was designed to use it.Additives are a POOR choice to prop up an oil.
Oil choice is just like the long rod/short rod argument.
Last edited by 1racerdude; 07-27-2006 at 09:03 PM.
07-27-2006, 08:04 PM
#68
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Austin/Houston, TX
Posts: 1,347
Re: Castrol Syntec 0w-30 German...Good for LT1?
I think this whole thread is kinda silly and people are seriously overthinking things.
Honestly, if you have the proper oil pressure at startup (not too high) and at temp (not too low) then you have the right weight oil.
To find the best oil, run oil tests.
It is really that simple. Oil breaks down, some faster than others... oil analysis is definately worth it IMO.
Honestly, if you have the proper oil pressure at startup (not too high) and at temp (not too low) then you have the right weight oil.
To find the best oil, run oil tests.
It is really that simple. Oil breaks down, some faster than others... oil analysis is definately worth it IMO.
07-27-2006, 08:27 PM
#69
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 249
Re: Castrol Syntec 0w-30 German...Good for LT1?
Well I also put some weight into sound. And high mileage engines can make some especially interesting sounds. My SBCs sound the best with GC. M1 products, especially 0W-40, sound the worst. In fact, dino oils sound better. At least my engines. I also put it in my girlfriend's 2000 Malibu with the piston slapping 3.1. Her's also sounds the best on GC.
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