LT1 Based Engine Tech 1993-1997 LT1/LT4 Engine Related

Anybody got a clue to why my car is running very very rich (datalog inside)..

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Old Jun 20, 2006 | 01:43 AM
  #1  
93camaroLT1's Avatar
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Anybody got a clue to why my car is running very very rich (datalog inside)..

Here's a little background information:
Ever since I my motor refreshed and threw on a heads/cam package I haven't been able to get this car running right. As of right now it runs extremely extremely rich (the plugs foul out after every run and it drops a LOT of gas into the oil pan in a couple mins of run time.)

So far here's what I have looked at:

-The tuning has been done 3 times on 2 different chips by Ion, the tuning is done for 42# SVO injectors, I swapped the stock 22# injectors back in and it still runs rich enough to foul out all the plugs after every run. Also the injectors are NOT leaking and when the car is off (there is no fuel dripping through them into the cylinder.)...

-The injector duty cycle is close to 10-15% at idle!!

-It is set to run in open loop and the O2s are removed, the EGR, Canbon Canister, and the AIR pump are also removed and the codes for them are deleted, but all the sensors that are still hooked up are working perfectly (I checked a few of them with the multimeter and ALL of them through datamaster DA.)

-I ran a compression test and all the cylinders make very good compression and the highest to lowest cylinders are at a 6-7% variance. (the motor has only been run for the cam break in and then for a few minutes here and there and thats it.)

-I just double checked the valve timing and it was dead on with the cam and crank gear.

-I also just double check the Opti and it was installed properly and was reinstalled properly (the missing tooth on the opti rotor and cam gear and lined up with the missing gear on the splined shaft.)

-I check ALL the valve lashes and when every valve is closed the pushrod can spin by hand, which would not be possible if the it was adjusted to tight and the valve was sticking open.

-All the vaccuum hoses are hooked up (besides the EGR hose, which is blocked off nicely) to the intake manifold and there are no leaks there.

-I just started up the engine again with this warmer weather it appears to warm up right away and there is literally no backfiring (it is really apparent when it backfires at all through the open headers.) and it appears to run just fine and also drives fine (I drove it down the block and back around), minus all the smog all the unburned gas running through it..

-Fuel pressure sits at 39PSI with the vaccuum line attached.

-The one thing I did notice is that the vacuum is a bit low, the cam I am running is a 224/224 108LSA and should be getting around 12"-14" hg of vacuum with everything being "dead on" including the tuning. I am getting around 7" hg of vacuum at "idle" (it won't idle by itself), which appears to be correct based on the high map reading, I can't quite figure out why this is though, everything appears to be right as far as opti timing, valve timing, valve lash, etc, etc..

Anyone got any other ideas to what could possibly be wrong and to why it is running so damn rich? What else is there that could be causing it to run this rich that I should look at?

Here's a link to the datalog:
http://www.yourfilehost.com/media.ph...e=datalog8.uni

What can you guys make of this datalog?.. anything else here that's off that i'm not seeing (besides a bit high map)??
Old Jun 20, 2006 | 08:15 AM
  #2  
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Re: Anybody got a clue to why my car is running very very rich (datalog inside)..

You have a big problem keeping a steady idle, obviously one problem you have are you IAC counts whom stay up close to max of 160 cts. Crack open the TB blade a little, but make sure it does not affect your TPS % or drill out the TB idle hole in small increments to see if there is a change. (this is risky, do not get carried away). The file is pretty much useless, since it seems that you have to keep "revving" the engine to maintain idle. Try to maintain a constant idle, and then scan it again. Send us a new file.

I cant tell how much vaccumm you average because of the constant revving, but a quick look it seems very low for a "smaller" cam. The high map condition your PCM sees will make the car run rich, as it thinks its under load. You need to adjust your tables to compensate for high map (Less VE efficiency, maybe a tad more timing,) under those ranges. I hope its not mechanical. Given that your compression test checked out good, you should now try a leak-down test, that will tell you if your cylinders can hold compression, which if bad, will play a significant role in your richness problem.

Good luck, keep us updated.
Old Jun 20, 2006 | 09:50 AM
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Re: Anybody got a clue to why my car is running very very rich (datalog inside)..

If you post the file in ".csv" format, those of us without DataMaster can look at it using Excel.
Old Jun 20, 2006 | 10:53 AM
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Re: Anybody got a clue to why my car is running very very rich (datalog inside)..

I'd get the IAC counts in the range of 20-40 and then check the vacuum. If that still doesn't help, add some timing and lean it out some. Basically similar stuff that 96ZRDR said. Then post the file back up in .csv format.
Old Jun 20, 2006 | 11:15 AM
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Re: Anybody got a clue to why my car is running very very rich (datalog inside)..

One possibility could be the temp sensor (to the PCM) failing. I just ordered a new one from Dal.

I have almost the exact same problem. I will be keeping an eye on this thread.
Old Jun 20, 2006 | 03:40 PM
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Re: Anybody got a clue to why my car is running very very rich (datalog inside)..

Originally Posted by Injuneer
If you post the file in ".csv" format, those of us without DataMaster can look at it using Excel.
How do you convert it to a .csv file?..

datamaster is a free download and pretty small program for anyone who wants it.. go here:
http://www.ttspowersystems.com/softw...A/setup-DA.exe
Old Jun 20, 2006 | 03:41 PM
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Re: Anybody got a clue to why my car is running very very rich (datalog inside)..

Originally Posted by Black_95Formula
One possibility could be the temp sensor (to the PCM) failing. I just ordered a new one from Dal.

I have almost the exact same problem. I will be keeping an eye on this thread.
not sure if you looked at the datalogging file but the ECT sensor was at 78 degree farenheit and rising..
Old Jun 20, 2006 | 03:48 PM
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Re: Anybody got a clue to why my car is running very very rich (datalog inside)..

Originally Posted by 96ZRDR
You have a big problem keeping a steady idle, obviously one problem you have are you IAC counts whom stay up close to max of 160 cts. Crack open the TB blade a little, but make sure it does not affect your TPS % or drill out the TB idle hole in small increments to see if there is a change. (this is risky, do not get carried away). The file is pretty much useless, since it seems that you have to keep "revving" the engine to maintain idle. Try to maintain a constant idle, and then scan it again. Send us a new file.

I cant tell how much vaccumm you average because of the constant revving, but a quick look it seems very low for a "smaller" cam. The high map condition your PCM sees will make the car run rich, as it thinks its under load. You need to adjust your tables to compensate for high map (Less VE efficiency, maybe a tad more timing,) under those ranges. I hope its not mechanical. Given that your compression test checked out good, you should now try a leak-down test, that will tell you if your cylinders can hold compression, which if bad, will play a significant role in your richness problem.

Good luck, keep us updated.
How do you crack open the blades without changing the TPS %? I had the blades cracked a bit before (1.03 V) but the tps % was at 2% and it still would idle.. (I really don't want to drill the idle bleed hole into the throttle body quite yet.)

I highly highly doubt the vacuum loss has anything too do with holding compression.. when the heads and cam on the shortblock was entirely refreshed (professionally) with all new and better rings, bearing, and bolts and since then the motor has only been run to break in the cam and then a couple min runs here and there like the one I did yesterday.
Old Jun 20, 2006 | 04:26 PM
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Re: Anybody got a clue to why my car is running very very rich (datalog inside)..

You might have to drill the TPS screw holes out so you can adjust it after you open the blades up a little bit.
Old Jun 20, 2006 | 05:37 PM
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Re: Anybody got a clue to why my car is running very very rich (datalog inside)..

Originally Posted by 93camaroLT1
How do you convert it to a .csv file?..

datamaster is a free download and pretty small program for anyone who wants it.. go here:
http://www.ttspowersystems.com/softw...A/setup-DA.exe
I know its free, but I have no use for it - I don't even use the stock PCM. Just thought if I was going to take the time to look at your file, you could use the "export as .csv" option in Datamaster.
Old Jun 20, 2006 | 05:41 PM
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Re: Anybody got a clue to why my car is running very very rich (datalog inside)..

If it's running rich I'd also check for leaking injector seals. That could be a reason for gas in the oil, was for me.
Old Jun 20, 2006 | 05:48 PM
  #12  
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Re: Anybody got a clue to why my car is running very very rich (datalog inside)..

Originally Posted by Mike96z
If it's running rich I'd also check for leaking injector seals. That could be a reason for gas in the oil, was for me.
naw, it was running so rich that it would just flood out the engine with the 42# injectors so I just threw the stock injectors back in (which I know have good seals) and it still runs very very rich..
Old Jun 20, 2006 | 06:03 PM
  #13  
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Re: Anybody got a clue to why my car is running very very rich (datalog inside)..

Originally Posted by Injuneer
I know its free, but I have no use for it - I don't even use the stock PCM. Just thought if I was going to take the time to look at your file, you could use the "export as .csv" option in Datamaster.
OK, here it is in .CSV format with short term fuel trims
http://www.yourfilehost.com/media.ph...e=datalog8.csv
Old Jun 20, 2006 | 06:04 PM
  #14  
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Re: Anybody got a clue to why my car is running very very rich (datalog inside)..

Originally Posted by Injuneer
I know its free, but I have no use for it - I don't even use the stock PCM. Just thought if I was going to take the time to look at your file, you could use the "export as .csv" option in Datamaster.
and here it is one more time with long term fuel trims (I could only use up to 32 slots on excel and there were 36 total)
http://www.yourfilehost.com/media.ph...e=datalog9.csv
Old Jun 20, 2006 | 06:22 PM
  #15  
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Re: Anybody got a clue to why my car is running very very rich (datalog inside)..

You definitely have to get those IAC counts down. The car is starving for air with the throttle closed. Boy those are some ugly log tables .



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