So, all in all, if I can get this thread back on track:

Has anyone read any "conclusive" test on these heads yet? (be it in 180cc or 195cc flavors?) Any mags? Engine shops???

The LT1 community complains about the lack of "new" technology, and when we finally get something that is benefiting from the LSx series, we slam it.

Sort of like the Edelbrock heads and intake. No one is bothering to test them, yet everyone is slamming them on all the boards because of past reputation. What a shame.


Hmmm...can't understand why performance manufacturers stopped pushing the envelope on the LTx engines

 

I dont know if the guys were "slaming" the heads. Atleast I know I wasnt. But I was saying that AFR is not known for their quickness. New technology or not it is worthless if you cant buy it.

My point is that the heads are probably very good. Nobody has any hard core test results out there yet because nobody has been able to buy them. If your willing to wait then you can probably get them. But I'll bet my paycheck that if you call AFR today with a credit card in hand... next month this same time you still wont have a set of heads in your hands. It would be nice for someone to prove me wrong. I called TEA with a CC in hand and I had a bad *** set of TF heads in my hand in less than 2 weeks.

There are guys out there with the Edelbrock intakes and so far there have not been any huge gains to report. So you cant say nobody is going for the new stuff. They have but the "new technology" has no major gains over the stock stuff. The real big advantage that Elelbroc has is that they are the only ones producing an intake to fit a head with a large LT4 port.

Performance manufactures have stopped pushing the envelope with the LTx stuff because they are busy working on the LSx stuff. Not because people are bashing them.


To my knowledge there are no results from any shops or people here with teh new Eliminator stuff for the LT crowd. Why don't you step up and be the first?

 

Check out Hot Rod mag march 2007. 615 HP 383 chevy power combo They have head flow data from Joe Sherman and a good artical about these heads.

 

Well stated. I completely agree with you. People bash companies that try to produce products for the LT1 and then wonder why no-one makes aftermarket blocks and other parts .....etc for LT1's. Because people think stock parts are superior and do not need to be changed. Yes stock heads can produce great power, yes stock intake can work well with different combos.......but better parts can and do get produced. Companies will soon give up on us and stop making new products. Then the LT1 will never improve beyond its point in time.

My AFR heads work great. 535 rwhp n/a with nitrous cam.
760 rwhp with 250 shot. 8xx??? with soon to be 350 shot or more.

Tony Shepherd

 

Its not a drivability discussion. Oh and if you want lets calculate the overlap Anyway the thing is he said with a 20* smaller cam he ran 2mph slower, so I said lsa affect the power too
It shouldn't become an LE vs AFR thread because you know an LE ported AFR heads will beat everthing

 

Just to address the availability question, there are a couple sets of 195 elims over on corvetteforum that guys have but are still getting motors together.

I have a set of 210 competition ported LT4 eliminators. I ordered them in July anticipating long lead times. I was shocked when I got them within three weeks. So they are indeed available. My problem is I won't have them installed and running until over the winter since I was planning the project around not getting the heads until the fall.

Obviously I can't speak to how they perform yet. However, the castings look very good in terms of casting quality and porting. The oil drainbacks have been significantly improved over the old AFR castings. I had my builder take a look at them and he was comfortable that the drainbacks would be more than adequate for roadracing and street (which is where I use my car).


If anyone is interested in pics or more info, I'd be happy to post some.

I'm definitely not trying to say they're the best or anything because I won't know until I hit the dyno -- just wanted you all to know that they are available.

 

I would like to have some pics to: f-body@welho.com

 

It shouldn't be a LE vs AFR thread but ultimately it is. Bang for the buck Lloyd wins everytime. I'm not saying the AFR'S AREN'T GOOD HEADS. Lloyd himself has told me that they are great heads but "Could use a lil attention here and there". For the record I do totally agree with Tony tho, If we don't quit fussing about what we get to work with, soon we won't have anything. Really, most of us end up modding old school 1st gen stuff because to work for us while the LSX engines are all the rage and have something new everyday, we get no attention. I'd kill to see a nice lightweight aluminum LT1 block but if there isn't a demand for it we'll never see it. How many business owners do we have here? Ask yourself what a pleasure it is to deal with customers that wouldn't be satisfied if they woke up with golden socks on their feet in the morning. I would personally like to have a set of AFR Eliminator bare castings ported by Lloyd to a LE3+ W/8MM valves. I feel it would be a real neat setup.

 

I'm not arguing saying they can't make power once they are ported. What I'm saying is a good set of ported stockers can and will make more power than AFR's portwork. That was the case with their old heads, but no one knows how their new ports work compared to their old ones yet. I wasn't about to take a $2000+ gamble and make less power than I could have with ported stock castings.

 

While you're stating my track times "aren't exactly impressive and I need to update my times" I don't see where you, yourself have posted any times, impressive or un-impressive for your car???

As a rule, I guess it's much easier to find fault with someone else's set-up than to articulate the merit of one's own.

WD

 

I went 12.0@118.3 with a high 1.9x 60' on my old setup in a full weight street car on heavy 17x11 and 17x9 wheels. I'm sure if I would have put skinnies on and an electric waterpump I would have been right at 120mph. I'm not going to post what I want to run with my new setup since that's just stupid I'll post the track results for it when I get it running again in a couple months. And I wasn't trying to bash or your car either and I had no idea you were in the high 10's since you listed 11.3@120 in yoru sig.

 

This sound like some one who wants to rant and rave. Not all stock castings are the same so you can't port them the same. What is considered a good port job and who is doing it. You are talking in general with out any thought in what you say. Compair APPLES to APPLES not apples to apple pie.

 

What I really appreciate about the "new" head design is the lightening of the valvetrain, without having to get into exotic alloys.

From what I've read, LT1's with hydraulic lifters are notorious for experiencing valve-float at high RPM's. Some have gone to expensive hydraulic lifters, some to the Hydra-Rev it, while others have spent big bucks on titanium. With the use of 8mm valves, and subsequent drop in weights with all of the parts used to work with these valves, we benefit from light weight without the added cost.

I'm going out on a limb, but my guess would be that under 6300 RPM, valve float would be nearly non-existent with stock Eliminator heads freeing up some extra cash to use elsewhere. I know AFR recommends the Hydra-Rev, but I wonder if it's necessary with these.

I'm still in the research phase, as all of my money has been spent over the years on the chassis. Unfortunately, with three kids, the projects don't come up very often. However, since I only have 42K on the engine, I'm approaching the time when a head and cam upgrade will help to pacify my need for speed for many more years. Not looking to get crazy...425hp at the flywheel is all I'm after.

Also, I second, third, and fourth the vote for an aluminum LTx block. Why no one has thought of this is beyond me. There are probably thousands of hot-rodders looking for an LTx based upgrade. Some have gone the LSx route, but with manufacturing of aluminum blocks happening so frequently, you'd think someone would b e able to do it cheaply.

Can you imagine World Products releasing an aluminum LTx block? I'm holding my breath

 

AFR

 

There have been several posts in the C4 section of the Corvette Forum about the Eliminators over the past couple of months. There are a few people over there that have them installed and are running them. They have also done some independent flow tests. Tony from AFR has also posted in a few of those threads. The people running them seem to be pretty happy. If anyone is interested go check it out. I can PM some links too.