LT1 Based Engine Tech 1993-1997 LT1/LT4 Engine Related

94 T/A, Datamaster dtc 13,43,65

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Old Apr 3, 2010 | 11:49 AM
  #1  
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94 T/A, Datamaster dtc 13,43,65

My friend recently purchased this 94 and it seems to run rich and performance is lacking. I scanned with dm and pulled these three dtc 13,43,65. 13 is left 02 fail, 43 is knock sensor or ESC Fail, 65 Right 02 rich. Now a little background, the engine has alot of go fast goodies, L T headers, lt4 intake, Heads, Am throttle body, under drive crank, high lift cam, lt4 knock sensor. I know this is all pretty vague, but what I saw and told. Ok, we jacked up the car and checked wiring 02 sensers, knock, pm ground, all looked good. unpluged KS rerun on dm. both 02 sensor dtc's gone leaving KS alone. This probably normal. Now is the temptation to throw parts at it. Friend replaced engine KS, with no performance gains, He lives 15 miles away. I think we should replace left O2 senser, Verify PCM origins by VIN. I have already verified lt4 knock module in PCM. Friend also purchased DM and Tunercat. Question finally: How should we continue with repair?

Last edited by Amscram; Apr 3, 2010 at 05:00 PM. Reason: Changed sn to VIN
Old Apr 3, 2010 | 11:58 AM
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DTC 43 indicates there is a problem with the knock sensor circuit. If you simply unplug the sensor harness connector, the trouble code should not go away. When the code it set, the PCM used calculations based on engine operating conditions, to retard ignition timing almost all the time. No way that won't hurt performance.

To check the knock sensor problem, key on, harness connector off the sensor, you should get 5V when measured from the single wire in the connector to the block. With harness still off, measure the resistance from the single pin on the knock sensor to the block. Should be around 4,000 ohms. Reconnect the harness to the sensor. Measure voltage from the wire to the block. Should be in the range of 1.5 - 3.5V. Anything outside those limits sets DTC 43.

DTC 13 can be caused by on open circuit due to a sensor failure, or a harness wire failure. Swap the O2 sensors side-to-side. If the code stays on Bank 1, its a wiring problem. If the code follows the sensor to Bank 2 (DTC 63) its a sensor problem.

DTC 65 can be caused by a short in the wiring harness, dropping the voltage close to 0 mV. The side-to-sdie swap may uncover more info. If you cleared the codes, they are not going to reset until the PCM tries to go into closed loop.
Old Apr 3, 2010 | 12:36 PM
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Thank you Injuneer,
Sounds like a great start, will post with results.

Last edited by Amscram; Apr 3, 2010 at 04:58 PM. Reason: changed to upper case I and S
Old Apr 5, 2010 | 03:09 PM
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A fix indeed

Great news, We did all of your suggested testing, fixed a questionable O2 connector, the knock sensor tests all fell within limits, swapped the O2's back to originial positions. We then took the car on a test run, with DM hooked up, closed loop and all dtc's gone and the car is running GREAT. His Gas Mileage was down under 10 mpg and Idleing 1400. Everthing is now in normal specs. Now, baby steps through TunerCat.
Thank you Injuneer! and Z28.com!
Old Apr 10, 2010 | 07:01 PM
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In searching my DTC 43 problem.. I found this post.

Injuneer...

I tested the connector disconnected from the knock sensor and it read : 4.85 pretty consistently.

I test the connector connected to the sensor and it tested: 4.69 pretty consistently.

I was not exactly sure how to use my test meter to test the resistance...but it appeared that best I could get from the knock sensor to the block was 1200, but I am not sure I was testing it correctly.

With the information I have given...Does this appear to be just a bad knock sensor?

Thanks,

James
Old Apr 10, 2010 | 08:11 PM
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I may have found my problem.

I have a 93....and I think I installed a 95 knock sensor. I didn't realize they were different over the years.
Old Apr 10, 2010 | 08:25 PM
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Originally Posted by All_Z_Way
I may have found my problem.

I have a 93....and I think I installed a 95 knock sensor. I didn't realize they were different over the years.
They should be the same. 96-97s are different.

Originally Posted by shbox.com website
Key OFF. Connector off at the knock sensor. Measure the resistance between the KS terminal and ground. Resistance should be between 3300-4500 ohms (OBD-I) or 93k-107k ohms (OBD-II). If it is not, the sensor is faulty or the sensor is not making good contact with the block. Try another resistance reading from the sensor terminal to the outside metal of the sensor body.

Last edited by shoebox; Apr 10, 2010 at 08:27 PM.
Old Apr 10, 2010 | 10:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Injuneer
DTC 43 indicates there is a problem with the knock sensor circuit. If you simply unplug the sensor harness connector, the trouble code should not go away. When the code it set, the PCM used calculations based on engine operating conditions, to retard ignition timing almost all the time. No way that won't hurt performance.

To check the knock sensor problem, key on, harness connector off the sensor, you should get 5V when measured from the single wire in the connector to the block. With harness still off, measure the resistance from the single pin on the knock sensor to the block. Should be around 4,000 ohms. Reconnect the harness to the sensor. Measure voltage from the wire to the block. Should be in the range of 1.5 - 3.5V. Anything outside those limits sets DTC 43.

DTC 13 can be caused by on open circuit due to a sensor failure, or a harness wire failure. Swap the O2 sensors side-to-side. If the code stays on Bank 1, its a wiring problem. If the code follows the sensor to Bank 2 (DTC 63) its a sensor problem.

DTC 65 can be caused by a short in the wiring harness, dropping the voltage close to 0 mV. The side-to-sdie swap may uncover more info. If you cleared the codes, they are not going to reset until the PCM tries to go into closed loop.
Originally Posted by All_Z_Way
In searching my DTC 43 problem.. I found this post.

Injuneer...

I tested the connector disconnected from the knock sensor and it read : 4.85 pretty consistently.

I test the connector connected to the sensor and it tested: 4.69 pretty consistently.

I was not exactly sure how to use my test meter to test the resistance...but it appeared that best I could get from the knock sensor to the block was 1200, but I am not sure I was testing it correctly.

With the information I have given...Does this appear to be just a bad knock sensor?

Thanks,

James
It sounds like your sensor resistance is too high, or its not well grounded to the block through the threads. I suspect you measured something much higher than 1,200 ohms.... maybe it was more like 120,000 ohms. The 96/97 knock sensor has a resistance of about 100,000 ohms.
Old Apr 11, 2010 | 10:03 AM
  #9  
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I just took the sensor from a spare engine I purchased. I was told it was from a 95, but I am now thinking it is a 96-97.

I had another spare block from a 95, so I tried that one and this fixed the problem.

Thanks for the help,

James

Last edited by All_Z_Way; Apr 11, 2010 at 10:45 AM.
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