Marc 85Z28

Give me an example... Show me one of these cams you speak of that you can PROVE that it's superior to the MS3. Like you said, similar duration and lift numbers. Don't differ so much that it would overlap into the territory of another TSP cam offering.

TSP was popular long before sponsoring that other site for a reason.

My stock bottom end 346 PRC heads and MS4 cam car has gone 125mph at 3700lbs on pump gas.

The only place TSP cams suffer is in low-midrange torque. If you've got a 6 speed car with stock gearing it's noticable, but not in a properly built car.

Finally, you can get a range of 109-114 on most TSP cams, regardless of what few options they offer on their website. Call and ask

Greed4Speed

I see what this is about. You want to defend your purchase. Have what you want, but the MS cams are not the end all be all grind and there are other options out there.

http://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1213394

Show me a 22x grind that can match 430/415 whp on stock LS6 heads. I know many magic stick cars that can't. I even know some with MS3 and MS4 6L cars that barely hit the 430 whp range. Actually I know one person with a TSP 6.0 abd their PRC stage 2.5 heads with a MS cam that only gets mere 10 whp more than that baby cam.

And something about that other site. They defend their sponsors like crazy. It doesn't matter if the shop is horrible or not, just so they get their $. I've also seen some great shops go to crap almost over night. I'm not saying thats the case here, but I've seen it happen. Just because you like TSP doesn't mean everyone has to, and we don't have to explain why. Again there are other options out there that I prefer.

Kraest

This thread is starting to smell like pee pee.

ALL big duration cams give up driveability and bottom-end/midrange for high-end horsepower. Those are exactly what the MS3/4 cams are all about -- big duration -- there's no secret about them.

Marc, that's a really good heads/cam MPH. My 471rwhp heads/cam Vette went 123 on a terrible 2.0 60' spinning and granny shifting 3rd gear on a much more friendly 236/239 duration F-15 (although it was still crap for bottom-end/midrange power on stock cubes). Did you have to flycut the pistons for that cam? I'd imagine so or it would be very very close......

Like I said, tho... Most people will want something more driveable than both of those cams -- You can get away with that on a stick car if you don't want to use a big gas-drinking converter in an auto, but you won't feel much until around 4500 rpm. That's why the auto is going to be more driveable with a big stall and you won't notice the lack of low-end power as severely.

Kraest

That dyno looks very very "happy" to me. Peak power at < 6000 rpm then it falls on its face, but still makes 430rwhp at 6000? AND 415rwtq with stock LS6 heads? I don't know........

FWIW, my cam-only car put down 415/395 on a Dynojet 248 using a 232/234 duration cam. I suspect with some LS6 heads, it would have gone around 10 rwhp/rwtq more. TONS of power all across the powerband, but a noticeable lope.

Marc 85Z28

I just KNEW he was going to link that EPS cam thread (the new flavor of the month). Seems he took the bait - mabye he'll put some truck coils on his ride too.

430rwhp by 6000rpm with that duration and a failing fuel pump is complete crap

Magic lobes

Marc 85Z28

Pistons were cut both intake and exhaust - .080" on both. Flycutting was required for several reasons: 2.04" intake valve, tight LSA, 862 heads shaved .020" and the .040" head gasket.

At 3700lbs the car has gone a best 60' of 1.51, best ET of 10.89 and a best MPH of 124.9 - I just say 125 Switching to some lightweight 15" drag wheels/tires might help, but this is a street car so it stays as is. Running a ported FAST 92 setup, custom 3" dual exhaust, a very loose PT4000 and 3.73 gears. Full suspension, stock K-member.. 420rwhp at 6800rpm through an unlocked converter on a conservative Mustang dyno. Results are pretty typical for what I have in it, as there are a few other similar cars around doing the same.

Jachin99

What would be a good LSA and pushrod length to choose if i wanted to stay on the side of driveability. Also, would this combo work as good with a manual tranny like it would with an auto with a converter?

Marc 85Z28

When it comes to drivability with the MS3, the most important factor is the tune, with proper gearing coming in a close second. LSA won't make much of a difference in an otherwise stock engine, and the pushrod length MUST be measured. TSP can give you a close estimate.

The MS3 cam only will work in a 6 speed car, but a 4.10+ gear ratio is pretty much mandatory. Evne with the proper gearing it will surge and buck a little under load at very low RPMs no matter who tunes it.

snakeatinZ

MS4@ 111lsa... Dont be scared of a lil cam surge.

Orr89rocz

You cant really tell much by lift and duration at .050". Theres so much more to a cam lobe than just those numbers. Rarely do you ever see advertised duration numbers and duration at various lifts like .100" .200", etc. All of this affects valve motion and can really be the difference in a few ponies over another cam with similar .050" numbers.

Having said that, I'm sure that most of the cams out there with similar durations and lifts that may have been designed for cam only type builds are going to be within few hp of each other. I'm sure some of those companies have spent time on the dyno with various cams to come up with a design to make best power.

Also remember peak power doesnt mean much. Its area under the curve that counts and truly makes the car go faster down the track as long as the gear/tire/suspension/converter if an auto are all dialed in to that specific combination of parts.

rthackwray

This is why I'm thinking Polluter cam.I was thinking of Ms3 or 4 too.

Marc 85Z28

Talk about a contradiction

Power under the curve is only beneficial when the gear/tire/suspension and converter are NOT dialed in. Want to go faster? Spend more time where the engine makes the most power.

Orr89rocz

Negative, you still have an operating range in which you leave the line at x rpm and shift by y rpm. You can still have a motor with similar peak hp/tq numbers at similar rpms and yet still have different curves all the way in between.

Marc 85Z28

As long as the rest of the car can take it, launch at a higher RPM, where more power is made, and you go faster. Again, spend more time where the engine makes the most power and you will go faster.

Take any two identical vehicles, one with a traditional automatic and the other with a CVT. The CVT will be substantially faster even with more parasitic loss because it keeps the engine RPM at peak power. Softloc/slipper clutches and high stall torque converters do nearly the same thing. The smaller the RPM window you use, the faster the vehicle will be.

Orr89rocz

IF that was the case, then why dont we all stall as high as our Peak hp?? If i peak at 6500, why dont I run a 6500 stall speed?