I'm looking to forge the insides of an LS1 to accept boost...I want to retain as close to stock as possible CR, though, to retain some measure of fuel economy...

Which assembly of their's is the best choice for me? Thanks!

 

Callies will sell you a complete, balanced RA with one of their cranks and the other components of your choice at a fair price. Give them a call.

Rich

 

okay, thanks...I only asked Lunati cause I heard good things about them. But thanks! I'll def. check them out!

 

http://www.probeindustries.com/index.htm


Check here too.

 

I know I originally asked for Lunati specifically, but in hindsight...that wasn't the best way to approach this, I think.

Callies, and Probe were thrown up there, but

Are there any other good companies who make rotating assemblies for the LS1? And what types of parts should I be looking for to accept around 800 hp(not that I'd use it)? I mean, I hear all this, "H-beam", and "I-beam", and "forged", and "cast", and 4340...can anybody explain some of this for me?

Thanks!

 

If you don't know what any of those terms mean, get someone you trust to buy the parts and build your engine for you.

 

"H-beam", and "I-beam": refers to the cross section of the rod. A largely irrelevant distinction.

"forged", and "cast": refers to the method of rough shaping parts. Cast means molten metal is poured into a form. Forged mean the metal is "pounded" into shape against dies. In very general terms, forged cranks, pistons, and rods are stronger (and more expensive) than their cast counterparts.

"4340" is an alloy steel well suited for rods and cranks. Most of the high quality forged rods and cranks are made of 4340. Not all 4340 is equal - the general specification refers the chemical composition and very broadly the method of manufacture. There are many more specific specifications which you can look at here: http://www.suppliersonline.com/prope.../4340.asp#Spec

In very general terms, a high performance build will have a forged crank and rods, typically of 4340, and forged pistons made of either 4032 or 2618 aluminum. 2618 is preferred for very high compression, boosted or nitrous use.

Rich

 

Compstar is sells some decent stuff made by Callies similar to what JE does with their SRP pistons. Should save you some money if you're interested in that sort of thing.

I beams are rods shaped like this:


H beams are shaped like this:


Cast means that the metal was liquefied then cast into its current shape, forged means the rods were machined from a piece of metal that was beaten into shape with a giant hammer. That's about as much as I can dumb it down, read about casting and forging on wikipedia.

H-beam rods are generally stronger (except for some of the really high dollar stuff), and forged cranks/rods/pistons are stronger. 4340 is a low alloy forged steel (meaning less than 10% other metals). 43 is the alloy group (in this case lots of nickel, chromium, and manganese, and some molybdenum), 40 is the carbon content, meaning .40% carbon by weight. 41 series steels are what is commonly referred to as "chromoly" because they are largely Chromium and Molybdenum alloys. When choosing a crank I would stick with the superior (in this application) 4340 alloy.

Long story short if you get a forged crank, and rods from a company like Callies and then some Probe/JE/Mahle/Ross/Diamond pistons you shouldn't have a problem surviving 800hp, assuming the short-block is assembled correctly.

I'd say let a pro choose your rotating assembly and put the motor together for you, but if you want to learn I won't stop you. I learned by doing it, but mistakes get costly.

Hope that helps,

Jeremy

 

Only thing in the above post I don't agree with: "H-beam rods are generally stronger ". Some people think so, others don't. Debating it is like debating religion, or rod length. Both (if correctly designed and manufactured) are fine. I have used both and would not select a rod based on H v. I beam.

Just IMHO.

Rich

 

I would say in general you midrange stuff in H beam will probly be a little better, but once you get into some money it does not matter just like you said....

a carrilo I beam would be better than a eagle h-beam.

If you don't know what this stuff is or means...then you need an engine builder.....If you want to "learn" then I would recomend learning on a clunker motor or some cheap old junk 350.......not on a high dollar project

 

I'm not a total idiot, It's just that I've only been meddling with this 'car stuff' for a little over 3 years now. I can recite lots of things about engines; function, parts, methodology, power, etc...(unfortunately), and just recently started poking my nose into full builds...

I knew that forged was stronger than cast, but wasn't sure by how much, or if it'd be worth it for a 800hp ceiling.
And I had a feeling that H v. I was a moot argument, 'cause if one was considerably better than the other, a company wouldn't make both versions of the same rod...

as for 4340. I'm no metallurgist, but I knew that that was the steel 'description' so to speak: What kind of steel it's made of. I just wanted to know it's significance, and if it's an important number to look for.

Just so you all don't lose sleep, though I'm not gonna be building an engine anytime soon, even anytime within a year, probably. I failed to mention that this was mostly hypothetical, trust me, I KNOW that I couldn't build my own engine tomorrow. But I WILL build my own engine.

Nevertheless, all my questions were answered for the most part. You guys never fail to amaze me with how much you know, and I appreciate it greatly.

 

"Generally" may have been the wrong word. Like mdacton said, if you mess around with the mid-range stuff that most of us mess with the manufacturers seem to put a little more into the H-beam rods. Whether it's worth the extra money or not I couldn't tell you.

Not all of us buy the high dollar Oliver and Carillo rods like you Rich.

 

The Lunati stuff is ridiculously expensive.

If you want serious quality without breaking the bank, I'd go with the Callies reciprocating assembly and Diamond pistons.

However, if cost is a factor and you still want some forged stuff, Eagle makes a nice forged 4340 crank setup with forged 4340 H-beam rods and forged JE pistons for under $2900 rated at 750 horsepower how it comes or up to 1500 horsepower with optional bolts.

Mike