ls2 goat or 02 ws6
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 989
From: Rochester, NY
Re: ls2 goat or 02 ws6
Originally Posted by Luna
The 05 a4 is faster than the M6 from the factory and putting a chip (tranny module actually) to remove TM will make that a greater advantage.
My younger brother got an 05 A4 recently. I like the feel of the interior. It is pretty quick but its power is really noticed as the speed increases. I just don't like the looks of it from the back.
My younger brother got an 05 A4 recently. I like the feel of the interior. It is pretty quick but its power is really noticed as the speed increases. I just don't like the looks of it from the back.
But again, most A4's are in the mid to low 13's. Not bad but not overly impressive either. TM is killing A4's and IRS is killing all GTO's.
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 627
From: Ft. Lauderdale, FL
Re: ls2 goat or 02 ws6
Originally Posted by JakeRobb
Has Evan Smith driven a GTO yet? We can't compare his time in an F-body to someone else's time in a Goat without compensating...
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Joined: Jul 1998
Posts: 6,247
From: Charlotte,MI USA
Re: ls2 goat or 02 ws6
Originally Posted by JakeRobb
Stock for stock, with equal drivers, the GTO wins the race pretty easily. The M6 GTO will hand you your ***.
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 404
From: rochester,MI, US
Re: ls2 goat or 02 ws6
Aside from speed, the GTO is simply a better car than ours. I was about to buy one, but then decided that I liked the looks of the Fbod, and I could sacrifice the better braking, handling, interior.
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 383
From: Goleta, CA
Re: ls2 goat or 02 ws6
Originally Posted by darrens99formul
That's the opposite of what they are saying at ls2gto.com. According to thier sigs and timeslip database the M6's are putting down better ET's and far better trap speeds then the A4's. I have heard about the A4's having huge TM issues that require that chip you mentioned to disable. Then I think they kind of level out the playing field. But most stock A4's (with TM) are running low to mid 13's and only trapping 103-105. M6's seem to be high 12's to low 13's @ 107-109. One guy over there couldn't get better then 13.9 @ 101 in his 2005 A4 GTO (OUCH!).
But again, most A4's are in the mid to low 13's. Not bad but not overly impressive either. TM is killing A4's and IRS is killing all GTO's.
But again, most A4's are in the mid to low 13's. Not bad but not overly impressive either. TM is killing A4's and IRS is killing all GTO's.
Charlie
...enough said.
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Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 1,449
From: Bentonville, AR
Re: ls2 goat or 02 ws6
If your looking for a daily driver, my vote is the GTO.
This is why:
Better built.
Better interior.
Better Motor.
Will have a Warranty.
Better stereo.
You won't see another GTO, like you would a Firebird, on the way home from work.
This is why:
Better built.
Better interior.
Better Motor.
Will have a Warranty.
Better stereo.
You won't see another GTO, like you would a Firebird, on the way home from work.
Last edited by Kris93/95Z28; Dec 15, 2005 at 08:42 PM.
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 989
From: Rochester, NY
Re: ls2 goat or 02 ws6
Originally Posted by dmnall
Actually the A4s are not the only ones getting hit with TM, even the M6s seem to have some problems with TM. I would love to get my gto programmed mainly to get rid of the torque management to see how the goat improves at all. The TM is evil for the fact that it cuts the timing and closes the throttle blade when shifting at high rpms (m6) to keep from destroying the drivetrain. The sad part is even the C6 M6 has TM . If you read at ls1gto forums, this has been talked about.
Charlie
Charlie
Originally Posted by monster5601
Torque management is defined as a request from the TCM (transmission control module) to the ECM (engine control module) for a reduction of torque. The TCM can request a torque reduction just before a shift and release the request once the shift is completed. TCM’s are only found on vehicles with automatic transmissions. The torque management program is located inside the TCM.
The vehicles with manual transmissions DO NOT have torque management. There is a ring that watches for abuse such as power shifting. All other power reductions are a product of the environment such as air temperature and on board sensors. This is controlled by the ECM.
The vehicles with manual transmissions DO NOT have torque management. There is a ring that watches for abuse such as power shifting. All other power reductions are a product of the environment such as air temperature and on board sensors. This is controlled by the ECM.
Originally Posted by monster5601
GM Powertrain defines a ring (the context here is on ECM software), as a collection of software algorithms which are scheduled to execute once every so many milliseconds. A ring can set and reset global variables or ask another ring or rings to take action when an abuse is detected or cleared. Examples of rings could be throtle positon calculation, throtle plate position, diagnostics, communications, etc.
In the abuse ring, there is a collection of algorithms that look for abuses in the powertrain, like power shifting.
In the abuse ring, there is a collection of algorithms that look for abuses in the powertrain, like power shifting.
Last edited by darrens99formul; Dec 16, 2005 at 08:18 AM.
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 383
From: Goleta, CA
Re: ls2 goat or 02 ws6
Originally Posted by darrens99formul
I do read there. And M6's don't have torque management according to them but they do have thier own version of it. My information is based on what I read over there. Here are the two most pertainable quotes from a thread I had read over there.
And then this,
No one argued this so I assume this is all accurate information. The M6 does have it's own problems that can be tuned out but it doesn't appear to be quite as much of a hinderance as TM is on A4's. But then again the M6 also has the skip shift crap too. They both have problems.
And then this,
No one argued this so I assume this is all accurate information. The M6 does have it's own problems that can be tuned out but it doesn't appear to be quite as much of a hinderance as TM is on A4's. But then again the M6 also has the skip shift crap too. They both have problems.
I agree with what you are saying that the M6 does not have TM in the sense of having the TC Module, however, I was just stating that the M6 does have TM eventhough it is a form of it, not trying to get into an argument. I will agree that Skip shift Sucks badly. Don't forget to add that the stock GTO shifter just simply blows. I am going to order a GMM Rip Shift as soon as speedinc get them in stock. Interesting enough, I have done a little more digging and found out that the A4 has both versions of TM, the obvious TC Module and engine TM, which once these goats start getting hot, pulls the timing to reduce performance. Glad I did not get an A4. I will have my computer tuned in a few months and get rid of some of the annoyances.
Charlie
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Joined: Jul 1998
Posts: 6,247
From: Charlotte,MI USA
Re: ls2 goat or 02 ws6
Originally Posted by dmnall
which once these goats start getting hot, pulls the timing to reduce performance. Charlie
Registered User
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 989
From: Rochester, NY
Re: ls2 goat or 02 ws6
Originally Posted by dmnall
I agree with what you are saying that the M6 does not have TM in the sense of having the TC Module, however, I was just stating that the M6 does have TM eventhough it is a form of it, not trying to get into an argument. I will agree that Skip shift Sucks badly. Don't forget to add that the stock GTO shifter just simply blows. I am going to order a GMM Rip Shift as soon as speedinc get them in stock. Interesting enough, I have done a little more digging and found out that the A4 has both versions of TM, the obvious TC Module and engine TM, which once these goats start getting hot, pulls the timing to reduce performance. Glad I did not get an A4. I will have my computer tuned in a few months and get rid of some of the annoyances.
Charlie
Charlie
But for a daily driver that I can take the family on vacation in I sure wouldn't mind an 05+ M6 GTO for that duty
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 735
From: BTR, Louisiana
Re: ls2 goat or 02 ws6
Seems as though if you want a fast GenIII car you to drag with you better get used to doing a rear swap,
Fbody 7.5" ----> 12-bolt
GTO IRS ----> Solid rear axle
'09 Camaro ----> Solid rear axle
Ben T.
Fbody 7.5" ----> 12-bolt
GTO IRS ----> Solid rear axle
'09 Camaro ----> Solid rear axle
Ben T.
Registered User
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 170
From: Chicago
Re: ls2 goat or 02 ws6
Ws6 for me Gto's do look good from the front with that hood they got but that ws6 has that im gonna come up and kick your **** look, they are just meann looking cars. plus people want ws6's more therefore they are holding value better but when it comes to performance they are almost in the same boat for timeslips...... so ws6=
gl
gl
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 205
Re: ls2 goat or 02 ws6
The M6's do not have TM.
I say go for the GTO. I own a 05 GTO and love it. It's almost worth buying just for the interior. It's a lot more comfortable than any Camaro/Firebird I have been in. On top of that it's just a better built car. Has a better motor, and comes with a warranty. IMO
The only real drawback of the car is it's weight... which is right around 3800lbs. The IRS does have more of a drivetrain loss (M6-18% & A4-20%). Though the cars seem to be dynoing pretty good... on adv the A4's dyno 335-345RWHP & 325-335RWTQ. While the M6's dyno at 340-350RWHP & 330-340RWTQ from what I have seen and been told. My A4 with 900 miles on her dynoed at 330RWHP & 325RWTQ.
The best thing about having the goat is I have never seen another one in the last 2 months I have had it just driving around. Of course I have seen them at the track or at some shops. While I see Camaros/Firebirds all the time.
If you are looking for something different, fast with sleeper look I say go for the GTO. If you are looking for something common, fast and mean looking go with the WS6. Of course both cars have a lot of potential, so which ever one you pick is a good choice.
I say go for the GTO. I own a 05 GTO and love it. It's almost worth buying just for the interior. It's a lot more comfortable than any Camaro/Firebird I have been in. On top of that it's just a better built car. Has a better motor, and comes with a warranty. IMO
The only real drawback of the car is it's weight... which is right around 3800lbs. The IRS does have more of a drivetrain loss (M6-18% & A4-20%). Though the cars seem to be dynoing pretty good... on adv the A4's dyno 335-345RWHP & 325-335RWTQ. While the M6's dyno at 340-350RWHP & 330-340RWTQ from what I have seen and been told. My A4 with 900 miles on her dynoed at 330RWHP & 325RWTQ.
The best thing about having the goat is I have never seen another one in the last 2 months I have had it just driving around. Of course I have seen them at the track or at some shops. While I see Camaros/Firebirds all the time.
If you are looking for something different, fast with sleeper look I say go for the GTO. If you are looking for something common, fast and mean looking go with the WS6. Of course both cars have a lot of potential, so which ever one you pick is a good choice.