LS1 faster then TTA?
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 39
Originally posted by Freak
well documented hu? then how do you suppose the 78 and 86 Corvettes managed to slip by this "documentation"? they were both suposedly bone stock as well. dosent sound like your documentation is worth the paper its printed on
top speed has much more to do with HP to drag than with Tq to weight as in acceleration. Id bet the newer F bods are more aerodynamic than the 89's. and so far no one has disputed they make less HP than an LS1. so it simpy doesnt add up. unless they make more power at about 4800-5000 RPM than the LS1 does at 5200-5300 RPM (this is about what RPMs each car would be at at the indicated top speeds) and no one has spoken up about this yet.
and since we are talking about all LS1s vs the TTA, perhaps we should bring Corvettes into this discussion. they are even more aerodynamic, and lighter, so they should be both quicker int he 1/4 and have a higher top end than the f bodies
anyway, if top speed is as driver dependant as you would like us to belive, then we are going to have to wait untill someone with equal skills does a test of an LS1. Of course we could just use C&D for both of them. 153 for the TTA, 162 for the 99 WS6 Vert (banging the rev limiter)
well documented hu? then how do you suppose the 78 and 86 Corvettes managed to slip by this "documentation"? they were both suposedly bone stock as well. dosent sound like your documentation is worth the paper its printed on
top speed has much more to do with HP to drag than with Tq to weight as in acceleration. Id bet the newer F bods are more aerodynamic than the 89's. and so far no one has disputed they make less HP than an LS1. so it simpy doesnt add up. unless they make more power at about 4800-5000 RPM than the LS1 does at 5200-5300 RPM (this is about what RPMs each car would be at at the indicated top speeds) and no one has spoken up about this yet.
and since we are talking about all LS1s vs the TTA, perhaps we should bring Corvettes into this discussion. they are even more aerodynamic, and lighter, so they should be both quicker int he 1/4 and have a higher top end than the f bodies
anyway, if top speed is as driver dependant as you would like us to belive, then we are going to have to wait untill someone with equal skills does a test of an LS1. Of course we could just use C&D for both of them. 153 for the TTA, 162 for the 99 WS6 Vert (banging the rev limiter)
http://www.krif.com/tta/Movies/TTA.mpeg
http://www.krif.com/tta/TTA/Indy%20page%201.jpg
http://www.krif.com/tta/TTA/Indy%20page%202.jpg
Using your driver parity logic your driver with equal skills needs to drive cars equally optioned too. As stated before TTA's were all fully loaded with 4 speed autos (no choices but t-tops and leather seats). Grab a fully loaded non-vert, auto LS1 and top it out, it ain't hittin' 162. Believe the lower of the several documented tops speeds for the TTA top end, how very convienent. You're forgetting one important factor in your "logic".......gearing. Take a guess which car has the "highway" gear? I'll help you out, one has a 3.27:1 and the other has a 3.42:1. Strange thing is the car w/the highway gear also gets to the 1320' mark quicker. Hmmm.....
No sense in replying, you'd just be pandering to the non-beliving audience in here. We agree to disagree and you can't seem so believe videos and photos. You probably think OJ was innocent in the face of overwhelming physical evidence too.
Ciao....
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 348
From: Jonesboro, GA, USA
Manuals generally come in 3.42's, since we are making a comparison of automagics, the majority (possibly all) of those come with 2.73's and 3.23's. I am also a believer that the average running LS1 bone stock would outrun a bone stock TTA. I attribute some of this to tires.. but the car definately has less power. The gearing should be pretty similar. Take $200 and mod both cars though, and I think the TTA would be the winner.
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 404
From: rochester,MI, US
Basically, this boils down to the TTA being a faster street racer, and LS-1s being better in the high end. Even my 305 tpi Iroc when it was slightly modded (exhaust) would outrun my LS-1 in a street race. Torque rules the streets....so do the TTAs. But any race after 60, and an LS-1 will walk a TTA.
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Joined: Dec 1969
Posts: 376
From: Chandler, AZ
[QUOTE]Originally posted by TT/A1233
[B]My 12.93 and 1.83 60' was done with Firestone Firehawk FP street tires at standard tire pressure. No air was added or removed from that of everyday driving.
I hadn't owned my T/A long prior to it's run and I can't remember if I had the DP on it or not. It would have had 9k-10k on the clock and believe it had the computer chip. The listed mods are the ONLY performance mods on my car.
That's the only performance mods huh...well I ONLY have A lid, headers and a 150shot
Now you can't remeber if you had the DP....what
\
Your car was NOT stock when you dyno'd and 1/4'd that's the facts jack...so all bets are off.
Still you could post the dyno sheet, or better yet your times slip with the 1.8 60' (you must have had glue on your street tires).....
[B]My 12.93 and 1.83 60' was done with Firestone Firehawk FP street tires at standard tire pressure. No air was added or removed from that of everyday driving.
I hadn't owned my T/A long prior to it's run and I can't remember if I had the DP on it or not. It would have had 9k-10k on the clock and believe it had the computer chip. The listed mods are the ONLY performance mods on my car.
That's the only performance mods huh...well I ONLY have A lid, headers and a 150shot
Now you can't remeber if you had the DP....what
\Your car was NOT stock when you dyno'd and 1/4'd that's the facts jack...so all bets are off.
Still you could post the dyno sheet, or better yet your times slip with the 1.8 60' (you must have had glue on your street tires).....
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 681
From: Republic of Korea
Originally posted by guywidiroc
Even my 305 tpi Iroc when it was slightly modded (exhaust) would outrun my LS-1 in a street race. Torque rules the streets....so do the TTAs.
Even my 305 tpi Iroc when it was slightly modded (exhaust) would outrun my LS-1 in a street race. Torque rules the streets....so do the TTAs.
Lemme get this straight, you think that a 305 TPI w/ exhaust is going to make more torque than an LS1 (stock)?
Not even an L98 would make the torque (peak) an LS1 does, it would probably be pretty close but the LS1 would come out on top. LS1 vs L98
An LS1'd 4th gen. would make a 305 TPI'd 3rd gen. look silly in a street race.
Last edited by 96SFLZ; Jan 13, 2003 at 08:40 PM.
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 404
From: rochester,MI, US
96SFLZ......Wooooaaaaaa....
I never said that I could ever out run my LS-1 in the high with my Iroc. But since my Iroc is a stick, and has about 360 ft/lb with a few mods (it has headers and more but I didnt want to get off the topic), and lots of gear it comes out of the hole way faster with a 3000 rpm dump. Do you know what a street race is? Its up to about 40 mph. Until about 30, my particular 13.4 Ls-1 doesnt do all that well(1.9 60 ft). But these cars are serious after that. So yes, my Iroc will hop out in front of my LS-1 with ease until 40 or so......then the lack of hp hurts big time.
Dont attack me, cause I love my LS-1 too, but you shouldnt talk without more knowledge. Despite the torque differences anyway....how could a car that traps at 13.4 @106mph car make any 14.4 @99.8 mph car look silly in only 4 seconds?? During my 98,00, and 02 Ls-1's, I happen to have a little experience with them.
THis is not a TPI vs LS-1....dont make it that. Just two diff cars with two diff advantages.
I never said that I could ever out run my LS-1 in the high with my Iroc. But since my Iroc is a stick, and has about 360 ft/lb with a few mods (it has headers and more but I didnt want to get off the topic), and lots of gear it comes out of the hole way faster with a 3000 rpm dump. Do you know what a street race is? Its up to about 40 mph. Until about 30, my particular 13.4 Ls-1 doesnt do all that well(1.9 60 ft). But these cars are serious after that. So yes, my Iroc will hop out in front of my LS-1 with ease until 40 or so......then the lack of hp hurts big time.
Dont attack me, cause I love my LS-1 too, but you shouldnt talk without more knowledge. Despite the torque differences anyway....how could a car that traps at 13.4 @106mph car make any 14.4 @99.8 mph car look silly in only 4 seconds?? During my 98,00, and 02 Ls-1's, I happen to have a little experience with them.
THis is not a TPI vs LS-1....dont make it that. Just two diff cars with two diff advantages.
Last edited by guywidiroc; Jan 13, 2003 at 10:00 PM.
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Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 167
From: Harrisville,RI,USA
Originally posted by TT/A1233
My 12.93 and 1.83 60' was done with Firestone Firehawk FP street tires at standard tire pressure. No air was added or removed from that of everyday driving.
The dyno was run at the Hot Rod Power Tour when they were in town. I hadn't owned my T/A long prior to it's run and I can't remember if I had the DP on it or not. It would have had 9k-10k on the clock and believe it had the computer chip. The listed mods are the ONLY performance mods on my car. A prior owner added a fuel rail FP gauge, but that's not a performance mod. The rest of the entire car is bone stock original even the restrictive air box. ****, it had the original 20th Anniversary spark plug wires. Here's an up close engine photo:
http://www.krif.com/tta/TTA/tta%20engine%203.JPG
The day of the dyno run the computer was pulling the throttle back at WOT. I later found out the O2 sensor was going bad and changed that so I believe my power #'s were low. The graph looked like Mount Everest (up-down) due to throttle being pulled, that's since been fixed.
On a side note I refuse to believe, as stated before in this post, that a Turbo T/A requires 17 more seconds to gain just 25 MPH. That's simply LAUGHABLE. Indy requires a superior level of acceleration from 80-120 mph to pace Indy cars when the green flag drops. The TTA was able to do it in factory stock trim, A/C included.
My 12.93 and 1.83 60' was done with Firestone Firehawk FP street tires at standard tire pressure. No air was added or removed from that of everyday driving.
The dyno was run at the Hot Rod Power Tour when they were in town. I hadn't owned my T/A long prior to it's run and I can't remember if I had the DP on it or not. It would have had 9k-10k on the clock and believe it had the computer chip. The listed mods are the ONLY performance mods on my car. A prior owner added a fuel rail FP gauge, but that's not a performance mod. The rest of the entire car is bone stock original even the restrictive air box. ****, it had the original 20th Anniversary spark plug wires. Here's an up close engine photo:
http://www.krif.com/tta/TTA/tta%20engine%203.JPG
The day of the dyno run the computer was pulling the throttle back at WOT. I later found out the O2 sensor was going bad and changed that so I believe my power #'s were low. The graph looked like Mount Everest (up-down) due to throttle being pulled, that's since been fixed.
On a side note I refuse to believe, as stated before in this post, that a Turbo T/A requires 17 more seconds to gain just 25 MPH. That's simply LAUGHABLE. Indy requires a superior level of acceleration from 80-120 mph to pace Indy cars when the green flag drops. The TTA was able to do it in factory stock trim, A/C included.
I've read quite a few road tests back in '89 of TTA's and they ran mid 13's.No one even ran low 13's.
On the street Its a close call so it'll come down to better the driver
----------------
'88 Saleen- 9.3@145 shooting for 8's this spring
'89 Steeda- 12.5@112 N/A have 150hp NOS
'95 Saleen S351- stock
'00 T/A-M6,hurst,MTI lid,Borla,KB DD SFC's,17' TT II's
my site www.renegadesaleen.com
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 250
From: michigan
this sure doesn't boil down to the tta being a better street racer. ever tried to race with a turbo car without having time to boost it up first??? as for the dyno numbers on the torque side, as everyone into auto LS1's have found out, with a higher stall such as is on the TTA, your torque numbers are outragous. it's the tc that gains you most of that torque number. i've most certainly driven both and an auto LS1 equipped f body would outrun a TTA as well as obviously the m6. from a similar source, the ss camaro with an M6 and the rev limiter moved up (2000 year) was able to go 167mph top speed. btw, firestone's, are not factory on a tta so you can't call that stock. i'm sure there are many firehawk owners that would be all over volunteering to run anyone with a stock TTA.
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1
From: NJ
It's common knowledge that a TTA running equal 1/4 et's will trap about 3-5 mph less. I have no doubt the LS1 will pull in the mid to upper range(3rd gear is a killer), However a TTA at full boost for a sustained period will surpass the 160 mark easily. To those quoting et's from mags. Most of the cars run are broken in already(usually press cars) and when a mag does testing track prep is the utmost concern. 10 gallons of vht will do wonders for radials.
Two different engines making different power. The TTA is a TQ biased motor the LS1 is a tecnho marvel,the inherent make up of the LS1 should make a lot of tq, but the engineers managed to ring a lot of hp out of it as well(small bore long stroke).
Not to throw in the IF's! The TTA was meant to be a good performing 1/4 car and a decent top end. 2.77's would have added a few more mph up top. There is one at least that had the gears swapped for the silver state challenge and ran way past the claimed 162 mph top speed. The quickest et I've seen was a 13.4 at 104mph for the TTA. The quickest LS1 I've seen was a 12.983 by GMHTP mag.
I agree that with 2.73's I don't think an A4 LS1 will hit 162. As for the aerodynamics of the 3rd gen T/A body I remember reading an article about the Iroc series and they said that the new body style wasn't quite as aerodynamic as the 3rd gen t/a. The Camaro by comparison is quite dirtier by design(open fascia).
In the end you can't compare apples to oranges. As for the street I think the TTA wiould win(past an 1/8 mile the LS1 would definately start to gain though!!!!!!
Two different engines making different power. The TTA is a TQ biased motor the LS1 is a tecnho marvel,the inherent make up of the LS1 should make a lot of tq, but the engineers managed to ring a lot of hp out of it as well(small bore long stroke).
Not to throw in the IF's! The TTA was meant to be a good performing 1/4 car and a decent top end. 2.77's would have added a few more mph up top. There is one at least that had the gears swapped for the silver state challenge and ran way past the claimed 162 mph top speed. The quickest et I've seen was a 13.4 at 104mph for the TTA. The quickest LS1 I've seen was a 12.983 by GMHTP mag.
I agree that with 2.73's I don't think an A4 LS1 will hit 162. As for the aerodynamics of the 3rd gen T/A body I remember reading an article about the Iroc series and they said that the new body style wasn't quite as aerodynamic as the 3rd gen t/a. The Camaro by comparison is quite dirtier by design(open fascia).
In the end you can't compare apples to oranges. As for the street I think the TTA wiould win(past an 1/8 mile the LS1 would definately start to gain though!!!!!!
Last edited by Pete 548; Jan 25, 2003 at 08:37 AM.
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Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 97
From: fl
My 2cents
I ran a 02 TA wit my 02 Z28B4C if that even matter from 70 miles/hr he could not keep up when I hit 155 he was a least 2 football fields behind. now I do have a 6-speed and he had a auto but the look on his face with 2 girls hanging their heads out the window asking me what I had done to my car??? You see it has no Z28 emblems on it. Ha Ha::
