How rare are Firehawks? Are they worth it?
02-15-2003, 11:58 PM
#16
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Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: New Bedford,MA
Posts: 4
Originally posted by 2000Formula
I like how the Firehawks look more than the WS6's, but you can get the hood from Suncoast creations http://www.suncoastcreations.com/hoo...p_firebird.htm
I like how the Firehawks look more than the WS6's, but you can get the hood from Suncoast creations http://www.suncoastcreations.com/hoo...p_firebird.htm
02-17-2003, 01:21 PM
#18
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Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: God's Country (WI)
Posts: 63
Originally posted by 9T8W66
The Formula FireHawk IS the Rarest of the Performance Firebirds they made approx 100 per year since `99.
The Formula FireHawk IS the Rarest of the Performance Firebirds they made approx 100 per year since `99.
If you are a road racer, a 1LE-optioned car would be the one to get...if you can find someone willing to sell theirs
02-17-2003, 01:27 PM
#19
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Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Harrisville,RI,USA
Posts: 167
SPEAKIN' OF RARE BIRDS
02-18-2003, 12:39 AM
#21
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Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Illinois
Posts: 264
How about some facts?
1) They are much more rare than Ws6's. For 2002, there were 12,516 WS6's (not including CE's), 2390 Collector Editions and 1501 Firehawks (verts, formulas and T/A models combined). For rarity, the numbers speak for themselves.
2) Yes, the Firehawks have a unique hood only available to Firehawk owners
3) Firehawks are unique for several reasons, among them; rarity, the hood, suspension upgrades and optional suspension upgrades, factory installed higher flow cat-backs, optional rear differentials, the 17" wheels and wheel options, the optional 2002 spoiler and 2002 lid, and the little decorative extras.
4) A Firehawk is not a firebird with all SLP options. The Hawk comes with the hood, 17" silver wheels, Firestone Firehawk tires, the SLP dual/dual exhaust, some minor suspension changes, and for 2002, a new air lid. From there, for 2002, you can opt for chrome wheels, a Bilstein based suspension, or the Koni/1LE suspension, an Auburn differential, spoiler, and the extras like floormats, portfolio, deck mat, cover etc.
5) While there are an estimated 1501 Hawks in 02, roughly 200 of whcih are Formula based, only 540 last year, of which just 80 Formulas were made.
6) As noted, the Black Bird has nothing to do with Firehawks. The Black Bird is a dealership creation. It has comparative performance mods to the 2002 Firehawk, but gets a higher horsepower rating because it's left up to the dealer to decide what to rate it. We know our cars are underrated, and the Black Bird takes advantage of that in their rebadging. That's not to say it's not a desirable car, as it may well hold it's value as well or better.
7) The Firehawk does not automaticaly come with a lowered stance. The Bilstein optional suspension does lower the car a bit, but there are plenty of Hawks with the stock and 1LE suspensions out there.
8) The Suncoast Raptor Hood and the SLP H.O. hoods are not the same as the Firehawk hood. If you see them side by side, you can very easily see the differences.
9) For Collector's Edition totals, see #1. They are higher than Firehawk totals.
10) Whether one model is more valuable or a better value is very subjective. Owner's of one model often dismiss the other. Buy what appeals to you and you won't go wrong.
2) Yes, the Firehawks have a unique hood only available to Firehawk owners
3) Firehawks are unique for several reasons, among them; rarity, the hood, suspension upgrades and optional suspension upgrades, factory installed higher flow cat-backs, optional rear differentials, the 17" wheels and wheel options, the optional 2002 spoiler and 2002 lid, and the little decorative extras.
4) A Firehawk is not a firebird with all SLP options. The Hawk comes with the hood, 17" silver wheels, Firestone Firehawk tires, the SLP dual/dual exhaust, some minor suspension changes, and for 2002, a new air lid. From there, for 2002, you can opt for chrome wheels, a Bilstein based suspension, or the Koni/1LE suspension, an Auburn differential, spoiler, and the extras like floormats, portfolio, deck mat, cover etc.
5) While there are an estimated 1501 Hawks in 02, roughly 200 of whcih are Formula based, only 540 last year, of which just 80 Formulas were made.
6) As noted, the Black Bird has nothing to do with Firehawks. The Black Bird is a dealership creation. It has comparative performance mods to the 2002 Firehawk, but gets a higher horsepower rating because it's left up to the dealer to decide what to rate it. We know our cars are underrated, and the Black Bird takes advantage of that in their rebadging. That's not to say it's not a desirable car, as it may well hold it's value as well or better.
7) The Firehawk does not automaticaly come with a lowered stance. The Bilstein optional suspension does lower the car a bit, but there are plenty of Hawks with the stock and 1LE suspensions out there.
8) The Suncoast Raptor Hood and the SLP H.O. hoods are not the same as the Firehawk hood. If you see them side by side, you can very easily see the differences.
9) For Collector's Edition totals, see #1. They are higher than Firehawk totals.
10) Whether one model is more valuable or a better value is very subjective. Owner's of one model often dismiss the other. Buy what appeals to you and you won't go wrong.
02-18-2003, 01:59 AM
#23
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Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 606
Originally posted by sleeperZ96BT
the Blackbird is a GMMG car, and can be viewed at www.gmmginc.net a firehawk is not as fast as a blackbird from the 'factory' (GMMG or SLP). the blackbird has ported manifolds, chambered exhaust, lid, short throw, and most importantly, 4.10s (among other little things), which is why it runs 12 all day from GMMG. both awesome cars, but the blackbird is faster than a stock hawk and also more rare, but also more expensive.
brian
the Blackbird is a GMMG car, and can be viewed at www.gmmginc.net a firehawk is not as fast as a blackbird from the 'factory' (GMMG or SLP). the blackbird has ported manifolds, chambered exhaust, lid, short throw, and most importantly, 4.10s (among other little things), which is why it runs 12 all day from GMMG. both awesome cars, but the blackbird is faster than a stock hawk and also more rare, but also more expensive.
brian
02-18-2003, 10:39 AM
#25
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Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Illinois
Posts: 264
LT1:
1992 25 Firehawks
1993 201 Firehawks
1994 500 Firehawks
1995 671 Firehawks, 72 Comp T/A
1996 524 WS6 Formulas 1996 41 Firehawks, 45 Comp T/A
1997 473 WS6 Formulas 1997 116 Firehawks, 47 Comp T/A
LS1:
1998 221 WS6 Formulas 1998 0 Firehawks
1999 175 WS6 Formulas 1999 106 Formula Firehawks
2000 232 WS6 Formulas 2000 62 Formula Firehawks
2001 0 WS6 Formulas 2001 70 Formula Firehawks
2002 0 WS6 Formulas 2002 200 Formula Firehawks (estimated)
All the numbers are out there to be found. There's a lot at Firehawk.com
1992 25 Firehawks
1993 201 Firehawks
1994 500 Firehawks
1995 671 Firehawks, 72 Comp T/A
1996 524 WS6 Formulas 1996 41 Firehawks, 45 Comp T/A
1997 473 WS6 Formulas 1997 116 Firehawks, 47 Comp T/A
LS1:
1998 221 WS6 Formulas 1998 0 Firehawks
1999 175 WS6 Formulas 1999 106 Formula Firehawks
2000 232 WS6 Formulas 2000 62 Formula Firehawks
2001 0 WS6 Formulas 2001 70 Formula Firehawks
2002 0 WS6 Formulas 2002 200 Formula Firehawks (estimated)
All the numbers are out there to be found. There's a lot at Firehawk.com
02-18-2003, 01:11 PM
#26
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Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Harrisville,RI,USA
Posts: 167
Originally posted by GrdLockV6
First, all the GMMG cars (excluding the ZL-1) aren't any faster then any typical LS1 really. Their only performance modifications include chambered exhaust and a lid. Sure, they look nice, but they aren't gonna push NEAR the 380hp/400tq that GMMG advertises them at, not even at the fly! I dunno where the hell they get off putting them at those #'s.
First, all the GMMG cars (excluding the ZL-1) aren't any faster then any typical LS1 really. Their only performance modifications include chambered exhaust and a lid. Sure, they look nice, but they aren't gonna push NEAR the 380hp/400tq that GMMG advertises them at, not even at the fly! I dunno where the hell they get off putting them at those #'s.
Also FYI 310rwhp is roughly 362 flywheel hp using 17% for the drivetrain loss. Since most '01-02 LS1's make that off the showroom floor it is'nt to hard to get one to make 380 flywheel hp.
02-18-2003, 06:29 PM
#27
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Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: God's Country (WI)
Posts: 63
Thanks for the numbers Shempy. Do you have the 2002 totals for 1LE cars? The 1LE site doesn't have them yet, but for comparisons sake, there were only 769 1LE cars built in the fourth generation total (excluding 2002 numbers), with only 123 of them being Pontiacs.
Shempy is clearly correct. The definition of "rare" itself can vary based on who you ask and just because a car is "rare," doesn't necessarily mean it's desirable. Certain cars like the LT4s were limited in their production, but others like the SSs and Firehawks, to a certain extent, had no set production limit. More people and dealers could have ordered those cars, but chose to order Z28s, Formulas, TAs and WS6s instead. Some of the reasons for this were mentioned in this thread already and others may include perceived value for the money spent. After all, these cars targeted the more budget-conscious performance enthusiast. In their later years, prices on loaded SSs and Firehawks were creeping into Corvette territory and folks that could afford to spend that much may have decided to move up to the next level for a relatively nominal increase in price.
Shempy is clearly correct. The definition of "rare" itself can vary based on who you ask and just because a car is "rare," doesn't necessarily mean it's desirable. Certain cars like the LT4s were limited in their production, but others like the SSs and Firehawks, to a certain extent, had no set production limit. More people and dealers could have ordered those cars, but chose to order Z28s, Formulas, TAs and WS6s instead. Some of the reasons for this were mentioned in this thread already and others may include perceived value for the money spent. After all, these cars targeted the more budget-conscious performance enthusiast. In their later years, prices on loaded SSs and Firehawks were creeping into Corvette territory and folks that could afford to spend that much may have decided to move up to the next level for a relatively nominal increase in price.
02-19-2003, 12:05 AM
#29
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Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Illinois
Posts: 264
Originally posted by XH2Oskier
Thanks for the numbers Shempy. Do you have the 2002 totals for 1LE cars? The 1LE site doesn't have them yet, but for comparisons sake, there were only 769 1LE cars built in the fourth generation total (excluding 2002 numbers), with only 123 of them being Pontiacs.
Thanks for the numbers Shempy. Do you have the 2002 totals for 1LE cars? The 1LE site doesn't have them yet, but for comparisons sake, there were only 769 1LE cars built in the fourth generation total (excluding 2002 numbers), with only 123 of them being Pontiacs.
Your assessment on rarity was right on the mark.
