How to get in the 12 sec. class with stock LS1
10-26-2005, 06:30 PM
#1
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How to get in the 12 sec. class with stock LS1
How can you get in the 12's in the 1/4 mile with bolt-on's besides using headers and y-pipe,torque converter,and a cut-out. How about a ASP
underdrive pulley and a ported TB with a lid,mafs,k and n,TB bypass,high-flow bellow, GMMG exhaust, 160 stat and SLP CAI kit. The car is an auto. all stock with no tune,no slicks,and has low miles. What do you think I need to do to get into the high 12's to mid 12's in the 1/4 mile.
underdrive pulley and a ported TB with a lid,mafs,k and n,TB bypass,high-flow bellow, GMMG exhaust, 160 stat and SLP CAI kit. The car is an auto. all stock with no tune,no slicks,and has low miles. What do you think I need to do to get into the high 12's to mid 12's in the 1/4 mile.
10-26-2005, 07:07 PM
#4
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Re: How to get in the 12 sec. class with stock LS1
Depending on your elevation/weather, it's VERY simple.
My 99 auto TA was in the 12s with just a lid, drag radials, and sub-frame connectors, and a cutout. It was also in Maryland with decent weather (probably mid 70s)
Twelves with a manual should be easy with a lid and decent tires (whatever nets you a 1.9 60' or better)
My 99 auto TA was in the 12s with just a lid, drag radials, and sub-frame connectors, and a cutout. It was also in Maryland with decent weather (probably mid 70s)
Twelves with a manual should be easy with a lid and decent tires (whatever nets you a 1.9 60' or better)
10-26-2005, 08:15 PM
#5
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Re: How to get in the 12 sec. class with stock LS1
By looking at your name I'm guessing you have a 1999 Trans Am. With Lid, catback and SSRA I managed a 13.1 on street tires. If you add pulley and ported TB to that then you should be there. But it may or may not be consistant. Street tires suck at the track. There were lots of days I couldn't get better then 13.4 with those three bolt-ons because I couldn't get better then a high 2.1 60'.
But if your willing to compromise and put Nitto 555R drag radials on the back then your definately in the 12's. Traction is EVERYTHING. Well mostly everything
But if your willing to compromise and put Nitto 555R drag radials on the back then your definately in the 12's. Traction is EVERYTHING. Well mostly everything
10-26-2005, 08:37 PM
#6
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Re: How to get in the 12 sec. class with stock LS1
Learn to drive it and get some traction and you'll be in the very high 12s or close.
MAF-don't waste your $ on aftermarket. The stock unit is more than enough.
Ported TB-not at this point unless you DIY
UD pulleys-too much cash for minimal gains, at this point you can get more for the same money w/diff mods
lid- YES!
160* stat- pointless at this juncture
SLP CAI - overpriced and NOT the best system out there. SLP CAI is no better than just cutting out the bottom of your air box for free.
K&N- Its an AIR FILTER NOT A PERFORMANCE MOD!!!!
GMMG- I bought and had installed a complete exhaust sytem w/headers, highflo cats, Y, and catback for the price of a GMMG catback. Spend smarter unless you just want to brag that you have GMMG.
The biggest gain you'll get from your car w/out going cam and heads, boost, or a power adder is one you say you don't want. A converter regularly drops A4 ETs by .5 sec in the 1/4. It will really wake that car up. Might just want to consider it. Cost can't be a factor if you're thinking about GMMG.
I just gave you a list worth over $1000 of "don't buy", so go get you a converter, trans cooler, good tires, LS6 intake (if you don't have it) and a cutout with the cash you would have wasted for minimal gains.
BTW, if you do ANY mods to the car it is no longer stock. So for getting in the 12's stock...good luck
MAF-don't waste your $ on aftermarket. The stock unit is more than enough.
Ported TB-not at this point unless you DIY
UD pulleys-too much cash for minimal gains, at this point you can get more for the same money w/diff mods
lid- YES!
160* stat- pointless at this juncture
SLP CAI - overpriced and NOT the best system out there. SLP CAI is no better than just cutting out the bottom of your air box for free.
K&N- Its an AIR FILTER NOT A PERFORMANCE MOD!!!!
GMMG- I bought and had installed a complete exhaust sytem w/headers, highflo cats, Y, and catback for the price of a GMMG catback. Spend smarter unless you just want to brag that you have GMMG.
The biggest gain you'll get from your car w/out going cam and heads, boost, or a power adder is one you say you don't want. A converter regularly drops A4 ETs by .5 sec in the 1/4. It will really wake that car up. Might just want to consider it. Cost can't be a factor if you're thinking about GMMG.
I just gave you a list worth over $1000 of "don't buy", so go get you a converter, trans cooler, good tires, LS6 intake (if you don't have it) and a cutout with the cash you would have wasted for minimal gains.
BTW, if you do ANY mods to the car it is no longer stock. So for getting in the 12's stock...good luck
Last edited by Greed4Speed; 10-26-2005 at 08:41 PM.
10-27-2005, 07:45 AM
#7
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Location: Rochester, NY
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Re: How to get in the 12 sec. class with stock LS1
I wouldn't call porting the throttle body and ASP pulley a waste of money guys. It's dyno proven that the pulley can add 10 rwhp and porting the TB is good for about 7 rwhp. That's 17 rwhp I would rather have then not have.
But I would save those as finishing bolt-ons. Lid, catback, torque converter, Drag radials & headers are much better mods. Then when those are in I would finish up with pulley, TB, SFC, suspension goodies and a dyno tune. And what the heck, maybe a 100 wet shot of N20 just for fun
But I would save those as finishing bolt-ons. Lid, catback, torque converter, Drag radials & headers are much better mods. Then when those are in I would finish up with pulley, TB, SFC, suspension goodies and a dyno tune. And what the heck, maybe a 100 wet shot of N20 just for fun
10-27-2005, 08:06 AM
#8
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Re: How to get in the 12 sec. class with stock LS1
I ran a 13.2 on some pretty hard tires with just a lid and catback. I'm pretty sure a set of sticky tires would get me into the 12's. Mine's an M6 with factory LS6 intake, though.
LS1's vary a lot from the factory. Some have run 12.7's completely stock; others run 13.7's. The only way to know how much work you need to do to yours to get it in the 12's is to take it to the track and see how you're doing so far.
I agree with most of the above posters -- don't waste your time on the little stuff yet. Get a converter and a pair of drag tires, and then say hello to the 12's. They're worth roughly half a second each over a stock car. K&N, pulleys, and ported TB will net you 0.2 seconds combined if you're lucky.
LS1's vary a lot from the factory. Some have run 12.7's completely stock; others run 13.7's. The only way to know how much work you need to do to yours to get it in the 12's is to take it to the track and see how you're doing so far.
I agree with most of the above posters -- don't waste your time on the little stuff yet. Get a converter and a pair of drag tires, and then say hello to the 12's. They're worth roughly half a second each over a stock car. K&N, pulleys, and ported TB will net you 0.2 seconds combined if you're lucky.
10-27-2005, 08:39 AM
#9
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Re: How to get in the 12 sec. class with stock LS1
why not a torque converter? that will do it by itself of you put some slicks on as well. i ran a 13.023 in 106 degrees on some 245 50 16 BFG KDWS's, mines a 02 Z28 and i have a TCI SF3000 and its perfect for how i use my car cause its my everyday car. it revs a little higher to shift gears but it still locks up over 40mph when im just cruisin to save gas, i'd reconsider that if i were you.
10-27-2005, 09:47 AM
#11
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Re: How to get in the 12 sec. class with a slightly modded LS1
I was just curious to see would it be possible to get in the 12's with stock tires and a few bolt on's. Some people may say that some mods aren't worth it but every little bit helps out though. I don't have the mechanical knowledge as far as putting in a torque converter,gears,ASP pulley and the LS6 intake.
Simple bolt-on's aren't a problem to do like a lid,free ram air,exhaust,the SLP CAI, high flow bellow,and mafs using a socket set. I'm not trying to break any records or anything I'm just curious to see if this could be done on a lightly modded automatic car. Does any of these things here help at the track?
1. Hypertech programmer
2. No K&N air filter in box (just for 1/4 mile time trials,few passes)
3. air/temp resistor/chip (advances the spark a little by a few degrees)
4. premium 91 or more octane
5. lower the tire pressure a little on the 275-40-17 inch Goodyear Eagle F1's
I have a 1999 30th Anniversary Ram Air T.A.(coupe)(auto.) w/ 20K miles.
1000 coupes and 500 convt. made in that option that year. I've had it for almost 5 yrs. and draws alot of attention especially with the blue tinted wheels and the blue stripes with the white leather interior and the WS-6 Pkg.
I just want to say thanks alot to you all for the information on this topic because without sites like these and others, all the ?'s will remain to be unanswered about the LS1. Being helpful to others is what counts alot.
Simple bolt-on's aren't a problem to do like a lid,free ram air,exhaust,the SLP CAI, high flow bellow,and mafs using a socket set. I'm not trying to break any records or anything I'm just curious to see if this could be done on a lightly modded automatic car. Does any of these things here help at the track?
1. Hypertech programmer
2. No K&N air filter in box (just for 1/4 mile time trials,few passes)
3. air/temp resistor/chip (advances the spark a little by a few degrees)
4. premium 91 or more octane
5. lower the tire pressure a little on the 275-40-17 inch Goodyear Eagle F1's
I have a 1999 30th Anniversary Ram Air T.A.(coupe)(auto.) w/ 20K miles.
1000 coupes and 500 convt. made in that option that year. I've had it for almost 5 yrs. and draws alot of attention especially with the blue tinted wheels and the blue stripes with the white leather interior and the WS-6 Pkg.
I just want to say thanks alot to you all for the information on this topic because without sites like these and others, all the ?'s will remain to be unanswered about the LS1. Being helpful to others is what counts alot.
Last edited by 30thTA; 10-27-2005 at 06:11 PM.
10-27-2005, 11:36 AM
#12
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Re: How to get in the 12 sec. class with a slightly modded LS1
1 & 4: I'm not familiar with the HyperTech in particular, but reprogramming for 93 octane does help a little over the stock programming (which is for 91 octane, and kicks back to 87 if the knock sensor sees anything).
2: I don't think this would help much at all.
3: Should be able to achieve the same effect with programming; I'd recommend against this one for that reason.
5: Definitely. Get yourself a nice digital pressure gauge. Lower the rears to 28 psi, make a few runs. Get your launch technique down. Note your best time. Lower them 2 psi, make a few more runs, experiment with slight variations in launch technique. Did your time improve? Good, then lower them 2 more psi and repeat until your time stops improving. Then add 3 psi. Then continue testing, lowering 1psi at a time until you find the optimal pressure.
-Jake
2: I don't think this would help much at all.
3: Should be able to achieve the same effect with programming; I'd recommend against this one for that reason.
5: Definitely. Get yourself a nice digital pressure gauge. Lower the rears to 28 psi, make a few runs. Get your launch technique down. Note your best time. Lower them 2 psi, make a few more runs, experiment with slight variations in launch technique. Did your time improve? Good, then lower them 2 more psi and repeat until your time stops improving. Then add 3 psi. Then continue testing, lowering 1psi at a time until you find the optimal pressure.
-Jake
10-27-2005, 12:06 PM
#13
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Re: How to get in the 12 sec. class with a slightly modded LS1
1. People have seen losses from their tuning. They're ok for shift point adjustments and speedo calibrations. For the cost, just get a mail order tune.
2. why risk it for maybe a couple HP?
3. I'll sell you an electric turbo, and a tornado air if you wanna buy into that too. Just give me the $ for nothing and you'll go faster from a lighter wallet.
4. Definately run premium for a race, but going higher will not give you any power unless you are detonating w/premium. Just stepping up to 100 octane does not guarantee hp gains. All higher octane fuel does is resist detonation, not burn more powerful, hotter, cleaner or anything else. I say run the 93 because the ECU will use the fuel map w/more agressive timing.
5. The thing about radials is that if you run lower pressure in them the tread will cup. This means that the inside tread will bow in and you'll be requiring the edges of the tires to provide all your traction. If this were bias ply tires than yes. Radial, no.
You also mentioned bellows, this is purely an appearance mod.
Take the $ you're willing to blow on all these little mods and you can pay someone to install something that'll really give you gains.
Here is some free stuff you can do. Learn the best way to launch your car. Go to the track when its cool and its well prepped. Lose weight!!! Take out the jack, spare, and anything else you don't need. Also take off your front swaybar for the track.
Not free, but make sure plugs, wires, filters etc are still in top shape.
2. why risk it for maybe a couple HP?
3. I'll sell you an electric turbo, and a tornado air if you wanna buy into that too. Just give me the $ for nothing and you'll go faster from a lighter wallet.
4. Definately run premium for a race, but going higher will not give you any power unless you are detonating w/premium. Just stepping up to 100 octane does not guarantee hp gains. All higher octane fuel does is resist detonation, not burn more powerful, hotter, cleaner or anything else. I say run the 93 because the ECU will use the fuel map w/more agressive timing.
5. The thing about radials is that if you run lower pressure in them the tread will cup. This means that the inside tread will bow in and you'll be requiring the edges of the tires to provide all your traction. If this were bias ply tires than yes. Radial, no.
You also mentioned bellows, this is purely an appearance mod.
Take the $ you're willing to blow on all these little mods and you can pay someone to install something that'll really give you gains.
Here is some free stuff you can do. Learn the best way to launch your car. Go to the track when its cool and its well prepped. Lose weight!!! Take out the jack, spare, and anything else you don't need. Also take off your front swaybar for the track.
Not free, but make sure plugs, wires, filters etc are still in top shape.
10-27-2005, 06:55 PM
#14
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Location: Sac, CA
Posts: 674
Re: How to get in the 12 sec. class with a slightly modded LS1
Originally Posted by Greed4Speed
1. People have seen losses from their tuning. They're ok for shift point adjustments and speedo calibrations. For the cost, just get a mail order tune.
He should be able to pick up a used HP fairly cheap. Push the rev limiter out to 6500 and the shift points to around 6300
2. why risk it for maybe a couple HP?
Agreed, I ran w/o a filter one time when I was still stock. My MAF screen was full of crap. A track is about one of the filthest environments for running a car
3. I'll sell you an electric turbo, and a tornado air if you wanna buy into that too. Just give me the $ for nothing and you'll go faster from a lighter wallet.
The timing tricker may provide some benifit ... but only in a very narrow temp range. Too warm out and you will start pinging, to cold and it will be retarding your timing instead of advancing it. Personally it's more trouble than it's worth
4. Definately run premium for a race, but going higher will not give you any power unless you are detonating w/premium. Just stepping up to 100 octane does not guarantee hp gains. All higher octane fuel does is resist detonation, not burn more powerful, hotter, cleaner or anything else. I say run the 93 because the ECU will use the fuel map w/more agressive timing.
Ditto
5. The thing about radials is that if you run lower pressure in them the tread will cup. This means that the inside tread will bow in and you'll be requiring the edges of the tires to provide all your traction. If this were bias ply tires than yes. Radial, no.
Yes do reduce the pressure, even on radials. Traction isn't a function of just contact. It's also a function of suspension and your tires are are very large spring when launching. Even though a radial will cup when under inflated, you generally still get better traction by taking the bounce out of the rear
You also mentioned bellows, this is purely an appearance mod.
Take the $ you're willing to blow on all these little mods and you can pay someone to install something that'll really give you gains.
Here is some free stuff you can do. Learn the best way to launch your car. Go to the track when its cool and its well prepped. Lose weight!!! Take out the jack, spare, and anything else you don't need. Also take off your front swaybar for the track.
Agreed .... weight, weight, weight ... it's the quickest and easiest route to reducing your times
Not free, but make sure plugs, wires, filters etc are still in top shape.
He should be able to pick up a used HP fairly cheap. Push the rev limiter out to 6500 and the shift points to around 6300
2. why risk it for maybe a couple HP?
Agreed, I ran w/o a filter one time when I was still stock. My MAF screen was full of crap. A track is about one of the filthest environments for running a car
3. I'll sell you an electric turbo, and a tornado air if you wanna buy into that too. Just give me the $ for nothing and you'll go faster from a lighter wallet.
The timing tricker may provide some benifit ... but only in a very narrow temp range. Too warm out and you will start pinging, to cold and it will be retarding your timing instead of advancing it. Personally it's more trouble than it's worth
4. Definately run premium for a race, but going higher will not give you any power unless you are detonating w/premium. Just stepping up to 100 octane does not guarantee hp gains. All higher octane fuel does is resist detonation, not burn more powerful, hotter, cleaner or anything else. I say run the 93 because the ECU will use the fuel map w/more agressive timing.
Ditto
5. The thing about radials is that if you run lower pressure in them the tread will cup. This means that the inside tread will bow in and you'll be requiring the edges of the tires to provide all your traction. If this were bias ply tires than yes. Radial, no.
Yes do reduce the pressure, even on radials. Traction isn't a function of just contact. It's also a function of suspension and your tires are are very large spring when launching. Even though a radial will cup when under inflated, you generally still get better traction by taking the bounce out of the rear
You also mentioned bellows, this is purely an appearance mod.
Take the $ you're willing to blow on all these little mods and you can pay someone to install something that'll really give you gains.
Here is some free stuff you can do. Learn the best way to launch your car. Go to the track when its cool and its well prepped. Lose weight!!! Take out the jack, spare, and anything else you don't need. Also take off your front swaybar for the track.
Agreed .... weight, weight, weight ... it's the quickest and easiest route to reducing your times
Not free, but make sure plugs, wires, filters etc are still in top shape.
10-28-2005, 09:43 AM
#15
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 67
Re: How to get in the 12 sec. class with stock LS1
I'm curious to why so many people don't use the HT Programmer? Is is good for just the rev limiter and shift points for automatic cars? How would just by increasing them help get more HP? Is the adjustment noticeable? I have seen HT programmers go up for sale barely used for $75-$100 shipped. Would that be a good buy at that price? Torque converters (Yank SS 3000-3600) is very costly and not including to have it installed. So no one here recommend mods like ported TB,ASP pulley and the HT Programmer handheld tuner. Let me ask you all this, then why does GMMG uses the ASP pulley and port their TB and uses a tune(which is more likely done with a lap top knowing them.) on all of there cars like the Berger 380-475 HP Camaro SS,Tom Henry SS,The Hot-Rod Edition Camaro,Carl Black Blackbirds,'02 ZL1 Supercar and the 600 HP Dick Harrell "Mr.Chevrolet" Supercar. If they use these mods then they must work well or they wouldn't be doing it then. So if I found them at a good price then why not buy them? I forgot about the '01 Dale Earnhart "INTIMIDATOR" SS. 
Last edited by 30thTA; 10-28-2005 at 09:45 AM.