shoebox

Enough! Get 'em in there and cough up the results. You can't compare a plug used in lawn equipment and motorcycles to what it will do in a car engine. Heck, not even all car engines like the same plug.

Kevin Blown 95 TA

Well I work in an ignition lab and I told you what I thought of them. I got probably 1000 various spark plugs in and around my desk from all the years of evaluating them. Yeah they sell them for outdoor equipment and for other uses, but I know the engineers at NGK and Champion and we have all tested these things as well as many other types of spark plugs, and they are just a gimmik to sell an expensive plug. You go to Toledo where Champion R&D is and they have a wall of all kinds of spark plugs and there are all the types of plugs you can imagine as well as some that look like ones they are still selling with multiple electrodes only the designs date back to the 1930s. I'm not saying they don't work adequately as a spark plug in some applications, but most applications work well with a single ground strap electrode or a cut back one. F1 uses a gapless plug with no electrode because of the way the combustion chamber and piston is shaped. So, if it happens to work OK in your application, the only real damage is to your wallet, but don't kid yourself that they somehow enhance performance.

Injuneer

The e3 advertising indicates the shape of the gap in the ground electrode somehow "aims" the spark at the piston.... but they don't mention that this requires indexing the plugs..... a bit of an oversight. Most of the "feedback" that is posted on the 'net is from people using them in lawn mowers ("I used to mow my lawn twice on one tank of gas, and now I can mow it 4 times") and farm equipment. Auto users claim up to a 100% increase in fuel mileage. It has to be obvious to anyone that this kind of claim it totally ridiculous.

Mystery Bird

I too don't buy into the gimmiks but suppose because the E3 plug has multiple electrodes compared to one strap of a common plug, is it possible at all that the extra material in the combustion chamber could raise compression a mirco amount to gain the few ponies they claim?

razor02097

Thank you. But you said yourself you did not test them nor would you even want to try them. I just wanted to know if anyone has tried them in their LT1.



I'm not trying to put anyone down but it is clear that the only people posting about the E3 plug is only their opinions about the them and not someone who has actually tried the product. Some products considered to be a "gimmick" actually work.

• I was skeptical about Flitz... always downplayed it with my analytical opinion. A polish you don't have to worry about getting it on plastics or paint...yeah right ... finally tried it and I can't live without it now.
  
• Mr. Clean magic eraser... Again being a skeptic. A product that cleans crap off any surface... yeah right ... tried it and it worked great!

I have tried gimmick products that didn't work so well. Simply put, you won't know for sure unless you try it.



^^ Thank you shoebox! This is the whole reason for this thread. ^^

Unfortunately unless the results are bad, any tests I do won't be valid with a stock engine because I am doing this spark plug swap with other upgrades. Unless someone wants to compare results that is using normal plugs with long tubes, MSD coil and 8.5mm wires.

Kevin Blown 95 TA

I never poked a sharp stick into my eye, either, but I know damn well it would hurt.

BTW, I don't have a problem with Flitz - it's been around forever and is a valid product, not a gimmick like your new plugs.

razor02097

Not a valid analogy. Injuring yourself isn't the same thing as knowing results of product testing without actually testing it.

At one time Flitz was a new product and I'm sure it was considered a gimmick.

Kevin Blown 95 TA

You win. We were just trying to save you some money. You could have had a good set of iridiums, platinums or two sets of racing plugs for what you spent on your junk.

Oh, and I found this which you may be interested in.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eU09efiXLoY

mzgp5x

I use the "Zex" power racer series plug. About $5+ dollars each. I've used alot of NGK and Champion on a 97ss 383 D1 (14psi) MM6 application, but, the Zex plug runs the cleanest. The Zex reduced plug fowl, and, I'm happy about that. PCM tuning is always the key for FI applications. B.

Kevin Blown 95 TA

The factor that determines whether or not your plugs foul or not is heat range, unless you ahve some mechanical problem like worn rings or valve guides or it's dumping fuel in there or has a bad coil or something. The temp of the plug needs to be between 475°C and 775°C to burn off the deposits. I can sympathize with the difficulty of finding the right heat range though. We expect our engines to run at light cruising speed most of their lives but then to make 700 hp on demand. So guys find a plug that works, they stick with it. As hard as they are to change.

One of my beefs with E3, besides quality, funky electrode configuration, and not being able to gap it, is their limited heat range choices. As a matter of fact they only have 14 part numbers for all the auto spark plugs they sell. 14. Let that sink in for a while.

koolaid_kid

I worked with an engineer who tested all the various flavors of plugs on an engine mounted on an engine dyno, so all other variables were eliminated. He informed me that if the plug is gapped correctly and is the correct heat range, there was no difference in any of the plugs, no matter what configuration of the electrodes.

Kevin Blown 95 TA

What did he test them for? Performance? Durability? Emissions?

koolaid_kid

Certainly performance and emissions. The test equipment in those engine dyno rooms are very extensive as to the data outputs they can monitor. I would say horsepower and torque output, efficiency, fuel mileage, etc. The equipment is also extremely accurate, since it is all computer based and has been refined for many years. It also eliminates any outside influences, such as transmission inefficiencies, brake drag, road surface differences, etc. that are variables in an actual vehicle.
If by durability you mean life, as in how many miles they would last, I doubt it. They don't do life testing in those rooms AFAIK. They save that for the real world, which is much more realistic for that parameter.

Kevin Blown 95 TA

We do much the same tests, but we find some differences in emissions ageing and durability but that is usually related to gap erosion. We also find differences in startability depending on which plugs are used. Performance wise I would say no real difference if, like you say, the heat range and gap are correct. Even the guys at Champion say plugs don't improve performance or give you horsepower, but that is qualified by replacing a good plug with another good plug. We are seeing defects in the plugs made in China and other screwey problems due to poor QC and lack of engineering vs. copying existing products. E3 we have seen welding defects and slag and core porosity.

koolaid_kid

I have stopped by the dyno rooms, and their parameter list is extensive.
I do know this, I brought in a set of E3s that I had purchased for my DD, and he burst out laughing. Not a good sign. That is when he told me he was on a team that tested all the various types and there was no difference, they were just gimmicks.