22#s, pure meth and a 100 shot of juice I pull 4 degrees with the 100 shot this is more than I need but better safe than sorry. No intercooler. meth is awesome I was skepitcal untill I put it on and now I'm a beleiver. Jeff

 

So basically Jeff, your saying with the exception of the 4deg pulled for the nitrous, you'd be running full timing under boost with the meth? Dang! I'll only be running about 8psi with a 150 shot on my 9:1 383 and if I remember right, I think i pulled like 6 to 8 degrees or so in the high MAP's at WOT. Maybe i'm being a little too conservative. Guess i'll just have to wait to get on the dyno.

Ken R.

 

No not exactly I pull four additional degrees on top of what has been pulled for my blower only tune. My car likes lots of timing more so than most blower cars I have seen I think its due to the shape of my combustion chamber. I only run race gas in the car so my car likes the same timing with the meth as it did with the front mount intercooler. You don't want to try the stuff i do unless you are prepared to spend a bunch of time on a dyno making sure everything is happy. I hate to compare different set ups you realy need to tune your own package and not rely on what others have to say I have found that all cars are a little different and like different things. I have seen very similar setups to mine detonate on 5 degrees less timing than i run.

Jeff
96 SS BLOWN
96 TA 396 D1

 

I also run no intercooler, just water injection.

Rich

 

Thanks for all the info. So, when tuning a car that has methanol injection, whats the preferred method of the two below.
1. Tune for max power while injecting meth.
2. Tune without meth so that if you have an injection failure under
boost you don't place your engine at risk. In other words, tune without meth but use it.

 

Tune with the Meth and make sure you get a kit with a progressive controller ie boost referenced. it takes some fine tuning to get it all working well but when set up right it is great!

Jeff
96 SS BLOWN
96 TA 396 D1

 

There wouldn't be much point in having Meth if you tuned it this way.

The general rule of thumb is to pull out 15% fuel and replace it with Meth. However, the more Meth you run, the more boost/timing you can run and power you will make. The Turbo GN guys are runnig up to 30 psi boost with Meth/93, but they'll replace up to 50% of the gasoline with Meth.

 

So, if your meth pump fails under boost your safety net is gone? Good reason to buy a high quality kit with a good pump. Thanks again for the info.
Def. gonna add methanol injection to my already over-budget project.

 

Talk to Steve at http://www.smcenterprises.com/ or Julio at www.alkycontrol.com ,both of these guys over great kits and will work with you as far as your personal needs. I run the SMC kit and everything is top notch quality wise.

 

As far as Nitrous vs. Methanol for cooling a charge, if you have the nitrous injecting into the intercooler it will cool much better than methanol. Nitrous comes out of the bottle at around -22 degrees. Unless you can get methanol that cold, it's not going to cool as well. My buddy is currently running an STS turbo on his '97 Camero. He is running nitrous instead of an intercooler when he goes into high boost. So far, so good.

 

Do you honestly think that makes his engine safer???

 

Yes, it does make it safer (than running without an intercooler) - when you're only running a 30-shot of nitrous because with that small of an amount of nitrous, it is just for cooling the charge, which is exactly what an intercooler is for. You can also add more fuel on the nitrous nozzle to make the car run a little bit richer, which is always a good thing with forced induction. An intercooler can only cool so much. If your car detonates, you can always add a bigger nitrous nozzle to cool it even more even though an intercooler and a little bit of nitrous would probably be best. On his application, 5psi of boost is not enough to call for an intercooler but when he switches to 10psi, while racing, he can save money on an intercooler by just using the nitrous kit he already has.

 

So you actually believe that adding a shot of nitrous reduces the engine's tendancy to detonate???

 

Nitrous is not an "antidetonate".

rich

 

I'm all for nitrous on boost, but don't think you wanna just add nitrous for the cooling effect without retuning for it. True, the nitrous does cool the intake charge, but you probably don't want to be spraying without pulling a little timing and making sure your A/F's are in check while your doing it. I think one way to look at meth vs n20 would be with meth, you can get more agressive with your tune to make more power and go faster where as n20, you can't be as agressive with your tune, but will still go faster vs boost alone. When I started spraying under boost, i did it strictly for more power and tuned for it with that in mind (cut timing, readjusted my A/F for when i was spraying). The cooling affect was just an added bonus.

Ken R.