Max HP on pump gas
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,082
From: San Juan PR
Max HP on pump gas
Hell guys I was wondering how much power is capable a 383 s/c out of pump gas?
I am shooting for 700rwhp and somehow feel it will not be possible...
Today i saw a post on a local forum about a 3000gt that did 370 AWHP on a new AWD dyno that came here last week.
IT seems to me, via some differneces and examples seen that AWD will rob you of about 10% more than a 2wd.. so that means that he would have done 400whp if it where a 2wd... This is on a 3L engine... That looks pretty high for pump gas on a 3L engine...
Does it mean that theoretically one could do 800rwhp on a 6L engine or the relation is logarithmic? Or on the safe side.. 740?Given the same conditions of ambient temp, IAT, and the such...
He was using a Twin Turbo.. which may account for a bit more efficient system to the wheels, but still he is AWD.... and 370 on pump gas seems impressive for a 3l engine on pump gas.
I am shooting for 700rwhp and somehow feel it will not be possible...
Today i saw a post on a local forum about a 3000gt that did 370 AWHP on a new AWD dyno that came here last week.
IT seems to me, via some differneces and examples seen that AWD will rob you of about 10% more than a 2wd.. so that means that he would have done 400whp if it where a 2wd... This is on a 3L engine... That looks pretty high for pump gas on a 3L engine...
Does it mean that theoretically one could do 800rwhp on a 6L engine or the relation is logarithmic? Or on the safe side.. 740?Given the same conditions of ambient temp, IAT, and the such...
He was using a Twin Turbo.. which may account for a bit more efficient system to the wheels, but still he is AWD.... and 370 on pump gas seems impressive for a 3l engine on pump gas.
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,082
From: San Juan PR
Searching over the net i found these flow numbers for the vr4
0.100" 86 80
0.200" 165 164
0.300" 230 191
0.400" 246 195
0.500" 249 196
0.600" 251 196
These are very VERY good mid lift numbers..
0.100" 86 80
0.200" 165 164
0.300" 230 191
0.400" 246 195
0.500" 249 196
0.600" 251 196
These are very VERY good mid lift numbers..
Registered User
Joined: Jan 1999
Posts: 884
From: I reached back like a pimp and smacked that LS1....
The imports can make alot of hp and run alot of boost on pump gas because of
- small bores are much less prone to detonation
- 4 valve heads flow like a **** (as you've allready found out)
IMO, it is not worth trying to get every last bit of HP you can on pump gas, because if it's on the edge it's just a matter of time before it breaks.
Just switch to turbo. You're a push of a button away from safe boost on pump gas and crazy power on race gas
- small bores are much less prone to detonation
- 4 valve heads flow like a **** (as you've allready found out)
IMO, it is not worth trying to get every last bit of HP you can on pump gas, because if it's on the edge it's just a matter of time before it breaks.
Just switch to turbo. You're a push of a button away from safe boost on pump gas and crazy power on race gas
Registered User
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 702
From: Houston, TX USA
Max power will be set by your combo and tuning expertise. I feel like 800-900 crank HP is possible with 93 octane, intercoolers and alcohol injection.
I have actually seen some motors loose HP on race gas, with no tuning changes. The pump gas has more oxygen or something, but is more detonation sensitive.
I have actually seen some motors loose HP on race gas, with no tuning changes. The pump gas has more oxygen or something, but is more detonation sensitive.
Registered User
Joined: Aug 1998
Posts: 520
From: Perryopolis, Pa
Race gas, due to it's higher octane, generally burns at a slower rate. While high octane allows more timing, it also often requires more timing than pump fuel to extract maximum horsepower.
Therefore, by running a safe tune on pump gas & then switching to race gas, you may actually lose power unless you add some timing to compensate.
Therefore, by running a safe tune on pump gas & then switching to race gas, you may actually lose power unless you add some timing to compensate.
West South Central Moderator / Special Guest
Joined: Dec 1998
Posts: 1,650
From: Coppell, TX USA
its all about cubes and revs, and keep the power effcient (big turbo, big blower etc).
on a 6L motor, with a big blower/turbo I would aim for 650 as being a reliable number. yes, you can make more.. but its not worth the extra 50rwhp, for the danger.
on a 6L motor, with a big blower/turbo I would aim for 650 as being a reliable number. yes, you can make more.. but its not worth the extra 50rwhp, for the danger.
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,082
From: San Juan PR
Is the real limit max hp or max torque???
http://web.camaross.com/forums/showt...highlight=Fern
That guy did 780rwhp on pump gas with 3.2L????
its around 409lbs of torque @ 10000rpms... so... not that much torque really, but to be able to hold it that long is quite impressive...
What do you guys think?
http://web.camaross.com/forums/showt...highlight=Fern
That guy did 780rwhp on pump gas with 3.2L????
its around 409lbs of torque @ 10000rpms... so... not that much torque really, but to be able to hold it that long is quite impressive...
What do you guys think?
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Joined: Dec 1969
Posts: 10,745
From: Buffalo, New York
Originally posted by The Highlander
Is the real limit max hp or max torque???
http://web.camaross.com/forums/showt...highlight=Fern
That guy did 780rwhp on pump gas with 3.2L????
its around 409lbs of torque @ 10000rpms... so... not that much torque really, but to be able to hold it that long is quite impressive...
What do you guys think?
Is the real limit max hp or max torque???
http://web.camaross.com/forums/showt...highlight=Fern
That guy did 780rwhp on pump gas with 3.2L????
its around 409lbs of torque @ 10000rpms... so... not that much torque really, but to be able to hold it that long is quite impressive...
What do you guys think?
If a 383 could achieve the same thing, it would have over 1,500hp. But it can't. The 2-valve heads will never flow as well as multivalve setups, the large bore size is an impediment to efficient combustion, the long stroke and basic design limit reves, etc.
Anyway, I am in near 800rwhp through an automatic with a loose converter on pump gas and cats. That's as high as I have seen, but I am using both N2O and a blower. I think the same or more could be achieved with a huge blower with no nitrous. A ice water cooled intercooler would be needed though. If exotic heads were used, there might be even more hp to be had. So, I'd say the answer to the question "how much power is capable a 383 s/c out of pump gas?" is somewhere in the 900-1000hp range. But I can't see doing it as it would be a time bomb and not very drivable - a huge cam and heads would certainly be needed.
Rich Krause
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,082
From: San Juan PR
Originally posted by rskrause
Are you discussing specific output (power/displacement) or a 383SBC? The answer is quite different. As you know, a small bore/short stroke/multivalve engine has a lot more potential in terms of specific output. F1 cars don't run on "pump gas", but they do run on 100 octane unleaded and make in excess of 4hp/ci NA from a 3L V-10.
If a 383 could achieve the same thing, it would have over 1,500hp. But it can't. The 2-valve heads will never flow as well as multivalve setups, the large bore size is an impediment to efficient combustion, the long stroke and basic design limit reves, etc.
Anyway, I am in near 800rwhp through an automatic with a loose converter on pump gas and cats. That's as high as I have seen, but I am using both N2O and a blower. I think the same or more could be achieved with a huge blower with no nitrous. A ice water cooled intercooler would be needed though. If exotic heads were used, there might be even more hp to be had. So, I'd say the answer to the question "how much power is capable a 383 s/c out of pump gas?" is somewhere in the 900-1000hp range. But I can't see doing it as it would be a time bomb and not very drivable - a huge cam and heads would certainly be needed.
Rich Krause
Are you discussing specific output (power/displacement) or a 383SBC? The answer is quite different. As you know, a small bore/short stroke/multivalve engine has a lot more potential in terms of specific output. F1 cars don't run on "pump gas", but they do run on 100 octane unleaded and make in excess of 4hp/ci NA from a 3L V-10.
If a 383 could achieve the same thing, it would have over 1,500hp. But it can't. The 2-valve heads will never flow as well as multivalve setups, the large bore size is an impediment to efficient combustion, the long stroke and basic design limit reves, etc.
Anyway, I am in near 800rwhp through an automatic with a loose converter on pump gas and cats. That's as high as I have seen, but I am using both N2O and a blower. I think the same or more could be achieved with a huge blower with no nitrous. A ice water cooled intercooler would be needed though. If exotic heads were used, there might be even more hp to be had. So, I'd say the answer to the question "how much power is capable a 383 s/c out of pump gas?" is somewhere in the 900-1000hp range. But I can't see doing it as it would be a time bomb and not very drivable - a huge cam and heads would certainly be needed.
Rich Krause
Heads flow pretty darn well compared to my 190lt1 heads i had before (300s vs 250)... Better cam.. a MUCH MORE EFFICIENT Supercharger... I did 607 with the S-trim on a damaged impeller... I have coatings ALL OVER practically, and will be using alcohol injection....
F1 cars run 100 octane fuel, but they use a very expensive one
Wow rich 800rwhp on pump gas is AWESOME!!! what a true street car should be.
How much advance are you running if you dont mind
Last edited by Highlander; Jun 20, 2004 at 12:36 PM.
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,082
From: San Juan PR
Yeap Manny Tranny with MCleod ST.
ANd on the max advance... I thought max advance was relative to the setup... and that max HP on X advance was also relative to the setup... Hmm... Or I didn't understood....
ANd on the max advance... I thought max advance was relative to the setup... and that max HP on X advance was also relative to the setup... Hmm... Or I didn't understood....
Last edited by Highlander; Jun 20, 2004 at 08:18 PM.
Moderator
Joined: Dec 1969
Posts: 10,745
From: Buffalo, New York
Originally posted by The Highlander
Yeap Manny Tranny with MCleod ST.
ANd on the max advance... I thought max advance was relative to the setup... and that max HP on X advance was also relative to the setup... Hmm... Or I didn't understood....
Yeap Manny Tranny with MCleod ST.
ANd on the max advance... I thought max advance was relative to the setup... and that max HP on X advance was also relative to the setup... Hmm... Or I didn't understood....
Rich