Forced Induction Supercharger/Turbocharger

Forced Induction and the LT-1

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Old 12-24-2007, 01:25 PM
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Forced Induction and the LT-1...STICKY PLEASE

This thread was started so members that have forced induction LT-1 cars could ofter opinions and/or suggestions to other members that may be considering or are new to the boosted game. There are so many continous posts from people considering forced induction and seem to have lots of questions regarding their car and boost that it seems a thread like like may help to give them some reference. Although this site obviously applies to all years and engine types of F-bodies it seems that the majority of members that post in the section have LT-1 based cars and it also seems that most inquires regarding forced induction come from LT-1 owners. With this in mind, a "sticky" regarding information about LT-1 forced induction would seem appropriate. Please post some useful information and with any luck, a moderator will see this thread and deem it sticky worthy. Thanks.

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Old 12-24-2007, 02:48 PM
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When choosing the right blower be honest with yourself and sit down and think about what you want your goal to be. If you know you are the type of person who will only be happy with a certain power level for a few months, buy a SC that can grow with you. I bought a P1, a few months later I was buying pulleys and not even a year later I was looking at a D1. Now Im looking at a F1. Im glad I didnt buy the D1 yet.
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Old 12-24-2007, 06:43 PM
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Some basic LT-1 specific motor infomation regarding forced induction:

1. The stock LT-1 compression ratio is approx. 10.5 to 1. While this is one of the reasons why the LT-1 makes good power NA, it is a problem in a forced induction environment. Even with today's unleaded premium pump gas, the octane is not enough to completely prevent detonation when introducing boost into the motor. Although, there are several ways to lower the c.r. to make the motor more boost friendly.

2. The stock LT-1 uses hypereutectic style pistons and even though this style piston can be the material of choice in certain applications, it will have a short life span in a forced induction application due to elevated cylinder pressures and detonation. Pistons manufactured from a low silicon 2618 material are the ideal style piston for F.I. although there are other piston materials that are well suited for relatively low levels of boost.

These two reasons are mainly what make the stock LT-1 a less desirable motor to just bolt on some means of forced inducton and expect the motor to stay together for any reasonable amount of time. The above not withstanding, there are some excellent forced induction kits available for the LT-1 and with the proper planning, parts selection and tuning, a reliable F.I. LT-1 can be had.

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Old 12-25-2007, 01:36 PM
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One of the most frequently asked questions regarding LT-1 motors and forced induction is: How much boost can be safely applied to a stock LT-1?

The general consensus is: It depends

Taking into consideration that the weakest link of the LT-1 are the pistons, most will agree that 5-6lbs. of boost with a conservative dynotune and 93 octane gas will probably not cause any immediate engine damage and still provide a noticable improvement in performance. Intercooling the boosted intake charge and/or water/alcohol injection will probably allow for a few more lbs. of boost to be safely added. All of this requires additional fuel to be added to the motor and an adequate fuel delivery system to be able to supply the fuel when in the boost mode. Additional fuel is typically added one of two ways:

1. An additional in-line booster fuel pump and a "fuel management unit" that will substantially raise the fuel pressure accordingly, based upon boost.

2. Larger fuel injectors, a boost sensitive adjustable fuel pressure regulator, an upgraded in-tank fuel pump and a re-calibrated PCM.

It is always strongly suggested that the vehicle be tuned on a chassis dyno in order to achieve a safe air/fuel ratio, iron out any drivability issues with the car and provide a good conservative PCM tune to help ensure motor longevity.

Vehicle mileage alone doesn't seem to play a large role in determining if an LT-1 will hold together when applying boost to it, but the overall general condition of the motor does as common sense would dictate. A simple compression test and leak-down test will tell a lot about the condition of the motor and should be considered along with oil pressure, oil consumption and overall general condition /maintainance of the vehicle. A basic forced induction kit can add approx. 75-150 h.p. immediately to the car and will find the weakest link in a hurry, so in order to help the motor last, it needs to be in good running order before it even sees any boost.
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Old 12-25-2007, 03:28 PM
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Hard to believe that no one else has anything to add here...the more information and practical experiences that can be conveyed the better.
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Old 12-26-2007, 10:16 AM
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A quick fromula people use to calculate "overlap" @ .050 is the following:

intake duration + exhaust duration = A

A / 4 = B

B - LSA = C

C x 2 = overlap

Lets use a 218/224 112LSA cam

218 + 224 = 442

442/4 = 110.5

110.5 - 112 = -1.5

-1.5 x 2 = -3 degrees overlap (negative 3 degrees)

Some typical ranges of overlap from this calculation are as follows:

Turbo: -5 to 0 degrees
Supercharger: 0 to 5 degrees

When people spec out cams for there setups, this might be something you want to keep in mind.

**** Note**** - these ranges I gave above are the typical agreed upon range. However, if you are slightly out of this range, it doesnt mean its bad. A turbo cam with +2 degrees will still perform great.
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Old 12-27-2007, 08:17 PM
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My best advice to those considering going boosted is this; build your car for the boost.

Too many people (about one every couple weeks) come here and ask "how much boost can the stock LT1 handle? I am really getting tired of repeating myself and others and I truely do hope this gets posted as a sticky so people will read it first before asking.

The stock LT1, (or LS1, or LS2 for that matter) came from the factory with a high CR, and non forged internals. Not what you want for a boosted application. You can run 5-6 lbs of boost with all the supporting mods like intercooler, methanol injection, bigger fuel pump and injectors, tune, ect., ect., and it will probably last for a while. Even then, you will still be out thousands on the supercharger and thousands on the supporting mods, and not really make much extra power with that small boost amount, so its not really cost effective. Also, if you do this, you will never see the same mileage out of the motor that you would if you stayed N/A.

Some people want to run the risk with even higher stakes by running 8-12#'s of boost on the stock motor. Some will even swear that thier motor has been running great on it for years, but the truth is their time is coming, and eventually they will be looking at a rebuild. Your motor might make it 25,000 miles, or it might make it 2500 miles, but sooner or later, you will be looking into a rebuild, and you risk it every time you go to WOT.

The best way to go boosted is to just save up the money for a forged lower CR motor that will take the abuse that boost will put on it. Then you can run plenty of boost safely, and reliably knowing that your motor is built to last under boosted conditions. My motor for example I am confident will last 100,000+ miles boosted with 15#'s of boost and over 600 RWHP as long as I keep it well maintained like I always have. Even then, you still need to have all the supporting mods as mentioned earlier, and then have a tranny/clutch that will hold the power, not to mention a driveshaft, new rear end, and if you ever want to be able to harness all that power, you'll be needing a bit of suspension to be able to "try" to hook up to the street. All said and done, you are looking at $14,000-$20,000 just in motor, supporting mods, and blower alone (price depending on what parts you use as $14,000 would be using parts like Eagle and Summit, and $20,000 would be the more top notch parts such as Lunati, and Oliver). It's expensive to do it right, and the cost alone is what usually deters people, but IMO that is the only way to go, as going the other way will still cost thousands and leave you stranded sooner or later.

It makes more sense to just go with a killer heads cam and intake combo if you can't afford to go boosted the right way as it won't cost nearly as much, and be much more reliable on the stock bottom end.

Last edited by CALL911; 12-27-2007 at 08:20 PM.
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Old 12-27-2007, 09:06 PM
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Well put Ben!

The intent is not to discourge anyone from considering a forced induction set-up, but people should know what they are truely getting themselves in for, before making the jump. I couldn't agree more with CALL911 and his advice...Plan to build a forced induction motor that's capable of handling your needs. There is no doubt that a turbo or supercharger kit is an expensive investment, then couple that money with the cost of a forged, boost friendly motor and all the necessary supporting mods and everyone will agree that you're going to be spending a considerable amount of cash. But it's the right way to go about it. NOTHING is more fun than knowing you have an abundance of reliable horsepower that's always there when you need it or want it.
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Old 12-28-2007, 05:45 AM
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The block won't be a problem, but the pistons may be.

Rich
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Old 12-28-2007, 06:27 AM
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This is how my pistons look right now,after 15.000 KM lots of fun and 6psi on a stock internal engine with 80.000 km on the clock.
I was lucky "for about 1.5 year.
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Old 12-28-2007, 06:39 AM
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Call 911 you're right on the money man. That is why I have been detered from going to a SC/Turbo setup. I would if I had a brand new; fully built, and properly cammed LT1 engine sitting on the shelf. Then that might be a possibility . And for that matter my z28 is a daily driver, being a college student my budget is limited to a splurge of car parts every tax return. To fit my needs I'm building a naturally aspirated rocket looking for 360+ horses max. I find it remarkable to have the setup's that some people have here in the forum. I can still dream however...

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Old 12-28-2007, 08:26 AM
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You definitely want to set a budget for your project first. Then begin pricing the components it will take to reach your goal. If the total price of parts, labor (if you're not doing the work yourself), and extra money for whatever gremlins may arise, exceeds your goal, then either adjust your budget if possible, adjust your goal, or adjust one of the variables that make up the total cost. But do all that FIRST because the cash adds up very quickly.

Second, I built up the supporting mods (suspension, fuel, ignition, etc.) before doing the blower that way when you do bolt on the blower/turbo, your car will be ready for the performance and you won't be spending unplanned cash always fixing the next weakest link.
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Old 12-28-2007, 10:36 AM
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Shortblock: It is not necessary to spend $4000 on a shortblock. I recommend reusing the stock crank and rods. -20 cc forged "blower" pistons for a 355 can be had for around $400. So total for a 355 rebuild should be in the vicinity of $1500 with some quality machine work and assembly.

Heads: Ported LT1 heads need to be heavily ported in the chamber area to keep the compression down. Trickflows and AFR's have bigger combustion chambers and allow you to run more boost. I think cost vs performance the trickflows are the best compromise. The downfall to low compression is that the car will feel weak when not in boost (which is about 90% of the time). I recommend 9.0-9.5 for a street car and about 8.5 for a race car.

Cam: Get the cam that is right for you. Dont get into the bigger is better mentality. Decide if it is a Daily Driver or a Race Car. There is no such thing as a "blower cam" Almost all cams will work with a blower. Get the cam that works best for your style of driving. Choose your powerband. My choice for a fun street car is stump pulling low and midrange torque. This is where LT1's can crush LS1's.

Blower: Get the big blower and not the small one. Boost is addictive and sooner or later you will want to up boost level. Its better to have a big blower and a big blower pulley. A small blower and small pulley equals belt slip. Vortech YSi and Procharger F1A both make good choices. Both of these blowers have a more modern impellor and will make more power at the same boost level than the entry level blowers.

Pulleys: Make sure you spend time to line up all the pulleys. SDCE is good at this and also machining spacers for the crank pulley. This is tedious work but it will make your pulleys and blower last longer. Spend some money on the big block ati hub and balancer setup. Once you see that the hub only engages on the crankshaft about 1 inch then you will see that the stock hub or regular ati hub is a dangerous gamble.

Intercooler: Either do a big front mount or don't use an intercooler at all. The small twin intercooler and 3 core procharger and Vortech setups are very restrictive. You can fab up a front mount intercooler for half of the cost of a procharger or vortech setup. Whether you use an intercooler or not a Methanol Injection kit will improve both power and reliability. It is a must have in my book.

Bypass Valve: Get a quality mondo or ati race bypass valve. It will provide a smooth transition from vacuum to boost to prevent wheel spin. It will also last longer and not leak.

Computer and Tuning: This is the life of your engine and all the money you spent. I recommend the dynojet wideband commander be mounted in a guage pod so you can monitor your engine all the time. Tuning software is a must have so you can tweak the air fuel ratio and timing to make the engine run top notch. Also a boost referenced(msd btm etc.) ignition box will help to keep the timing correct at all throttle positions and rpms. It will also ensure a good strong spark at the upper rpms. You should tune for appoximately 11.5-12.0 AFR to keep the engine running strong and have good longevity.

Fuel Pump and Injectors: Dual Walbro and stock lines/rails/regulater is a simple cost effective solution for all but the wildest of setups. 60 pd mototron injectors have proven themselves to work well with the stock computer and will provide enough fuel for 95% of setups.

MAF or Speed Density: I recommend the MAF be used and placed on the pressure side. Easy to tune and can be compensated for when it maxes. The restriction is negligible if it is descreened. The Maf on the pressure side and the bypass dumping to atmosphere will help to cool the head unit and intake air. Speed Density is a constant battle to keep the AF ratio right with changing atmospheric condition.

Cost: Don't get into a bigger is better mentality. Do some research on setups that are powerful and reliable. Use the for sale section. Have a plan from start to finish and stick to it.

Results: Forced induction is the most gratifying thing I've done to my car. How else can you have 700 hp and be a daily driver? I can't wait to drive my car everyday it is so much fun to drive. Better than nitrous because its there all the time. I've got 30,000 miles on my car and its still amazes me how much power and torque it makes. It also doesn't require much maintenance now that all the bugs are worked out. Gas mileage is about 14 in the city and 25 on the highway which is only a little worse than stock numbers. Try getting that kind of mileage on a big heads and cam race car.

Thanks CZ28 members for all the help.

Steve

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Old 01-04-2008, 03:14 PM
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this needs to be a sticky

What i've learned
READ READ READ!
just because you know how ot build a N/A motor, does NOT mean you know how to build a boosted motor.
Also, you CAN buy cheaper stuff that works just as good. I.E. speed pro or srp pistons vs ross and diamon.
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Old 01-04-2008, 04:06 PM
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Stock LT-1 with boost

For those who want to know what to expect when you put a forced induction kit on a stock LT-1 motor:

I ran about 10 lbs. of boost from a P600-B Procharger and their intercooler (single unit that mounted under the vehicle) on a stock '96 LT-1 that had approx 18,000 miles. Nothing internal was done to the motor and only had a set of long-tube headers and a Muflex exhaust system. I upgraded the stock 24 lb. injectors to 42 lb. injectors and replaced the stock fuel pump with a Walbro 255. I also replaced the stock AFPR with an Aeromotive boost sensitive AFPR and had a VERY conservative tune in the PCM. With a set of ET Streets mounted on stock salad shooter rims, the car went 12.20's at the track. I'm sure with some tuning, the car would have been very close to making an 11.9x pass.

Not wanting to hurt the low mileage motor and the fact that boost is about as addictive as heroin, I started a new project consisting of a 383, F1-A, FMIC, BS-3 w/8 coils, single plane, a small shot of nitrous, upgraded 6-speed, etc. etc. Hoping to make it to the LTx Shootout if I can finish it in time.

Last edited by Boosted_Z28; 01-05-2008 at 12:16 AM.
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