Anyone running SPEC stage 4?
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Registered User
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 699
From: Decatur, AL
Well Jose...one of the moderators has a SPEC stage 4 and says it is streetable...not hard to transition from regular 5 speed car to the SPEC clutch. Looks like i'll go stage 4 too. What material did you go with?
Joe
Joe
Last edited by FireAm94; May 5, 2003 at 11:43 AM.
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 366
From: austin, TX
I can't give any info on the stage 4 or even the stage 3, but I can comment on the SPEC stage 2. I've been beating on mine for nearly a year now. 1st six months was on a nx 125 shot, and now with my vortech. No problems to date, and it still doesn't slip (not that I can feel).
Like I said, I can't speak for the stage 3 and 4, but my stage 2 has held up thus far. And for what it's worth, I will go back with SPEC when this one perrishes.
I'm not trying to persuade you by any means. I'm just giving one persons experience.
Like I said, I can't speak for the stage 3 and 4, but my stage 2 has held up thus far. And for what it's worth, I will go back with SPEC when this one perrishes.
I'm not trying to persuade you by any means. I'm just giving one persons experience.
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Joined: Jun 1999
Posts: 329
From: TEXAS
I have a Stage III in my car and drove it with no problems. When I saw the ones flying apart I called them and they replaced it with the updated model free of charge (only had to pay shipping) so as far as customer service I have had no problems with them at all. The current clutch is behind a blowen 383, I haven't had that much time driving the car due to engine problems but it should be on the road within the next few weeks. I am also using a lightweight SLP billet flywheel.
The clutch is kinda grabby but as long as you know how to drive a stick good, its no problem. For those that like to just slip it...they will probably have problems with it.
My roomate has a Stage II in his 5.0 and has put 10,000 miles on it with no problems and a lot of track time. When we pulled it out, to fix a oil leak, it looked brand new, like it had never been used. Only thing he said he didn't like that much is that the pedal pressure sometimes varies a little, and engagement sometimes varies from the top to the bottom, but then again their clutches are also cable driven not hyd.
So far to this date I have not found a better street/road race clutch than the Spec...there are a couple others that I would like to try but this one is doing pretty good so far. The Twin is far far to heavy and I to me you are loosing to much responce and power just trying to spin that thing. My roomate last year has the twin in his '94 and it sure hits hard but it does not respond as quickly as it used to.
The clutch is kinda grabby but as long as you know how to drive a stick good, its no problem. For those that like to just slip it...they will probably have problems with it.
My roomate has a Stage II in his 5.0 and has put 10,000 miles on it with no problems and a lot of track time. When we pulled it out, to fix a oil leak, it looked brand new, like it had never been used. Only thing he said he didn't like that much is that the pedal pressure sometimes varies a little, and engagement sometimes varies from the top to the bottom, but then again their clutches are also cable driven not hyd.
So far to this date I have not found a better street/road race clutch than the Spec...there are a couple others that I would like to try but this one is doing pretty good so far. The Twin is far far to heavy and I to me you are loosing to much responce and power just trying to spin that thing. My roomate last year has the twin in his '94 and it sure hits hard but it does not respond as quickly as it used to.
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Joined: Feb 1999
Posts: 34
From: Fairfax, Virginia
Just for clarification, the Street Twin with the Aluminum flywheel weighs exactly the same as the stock setup. If you really think the weight is a concern, then go with that configuration. It won't "rev slower" by any means.
-Ernest
95 Z
-Ernest
95 Z
Registered User
Joined: Jun 1999
Posts: 329
From: TEXAS
My old roomates car has the steel flywheel so it was about 70lbs of rotating mass back there. Even with the Alum flywheel I can't see it being stock weight but if it is, that is still almost 2x the weight of what is on my car now...and that is a far cry from the 12lb clutches that most road racers use....but then again they are not exactly street clutches either. I don't drag this car so I can't really say what most of them use....but going from the article in last months MM&FF the lighter the clutch setup the better off you are going to be for lwer E.T.s and MPH.
My biggest consern with that heavy of a clutch is that it breaks stuff....he has went thru more driveline parts than anyone I know. When that thing hits, it hits hard (as any stick car is going to do anyway) but with that much power stored in that much weight I think the clutch has had a lot to do with as much parts as he has broken in that 12 bolt. But there again this is just my own thoughts on the subject as most of the parts didn't break until that clutch went in....and the old single wasn't slipping. I have not had any problems with any other clutches I just didn't like the weight of the twin setup. The only clutch that any of my friends or myself had have problems with are the CenterForce clutches.
My friend with a '99 SS has a Cartec in his car...and he has been going thru some problems with something..we don't know if it is clutch related yet or not. If so then that would make the only 2 companies we have had problems with.
My biggest consern with that heavy of a clutch is that it breaks stuff....he has went thru more driveline parts than anyone I know. When that thing hits, it hits hard (as any stick car is going to do anyway) but with that much power stored in that much weight I think the clutch has had a lot to do with as much parts as he has broken in that 12 bolt. But there again this is just my own thoughts on the subject as most of the parts didn't break until that clutch went in....and the old single wasn't slipping. I have not had any problems with any other clutches I just didn't like the weight of the twin setup. The only clutch that any of my friends or myself had have problems with are the CenterForce clutches.
My friend with a '99 SS has a Cartec in his car...and he has been going thru some problems with something..we don't know if it is clutch related yet or not. If so then that would make the only 2 companies we have had problems with.
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 520
From: MD
Hum… a few interesting things here…
Ernest- you’ve got the puck explanation backwards. Generally, fewer pucks mean a grippier clutch. I think that Randy on mafb explained it best with it being the difference between putting your flat hand against someone’s chest and rotating vs digging a few of your fingers in and doing the same… which one will hurt more?
Second, are you saying that your street twin has sprung clutch hubs? Mine has solid hubs on both disks, and to be honest, I don’t know how you would put a real sprung hub in there, I don’t think that there is room.
Hum… actually, I’d love to go in a ride in someone’s street twin car that’s gotten it in the last year or so, since I’m starting to wonder if they’ve changed their clutch compound to make it engage softer. Maybe if you ever quit breaking your car
FWIW, Ernest is not the only one that has blown up a spec clutch. It’s common enough that last I heard SPEC is giving out replacements. Secondly, I haven’t heard of anyone getting over 10K miles out of them in any application.
I went with a street twin way back when no one was really running them, and got a lot of crap from the local guys about “why are you wasting your money on that” (I feel vindicated since pretty much all of them are now running street twins). I installed it and pulled it 7x before it was right (again, a pretty early model), McCleod express shipped stuff back and forth every time till it was right (I wish it was right to start with, but at least they stood behind their problems).
My opinion:
If you have a big HP street car, go for a steel flywheel street twin. It will be bullet proof and will feel the most like a stock clutch.
If you race the car (rr or drag) go with an aluminum flywheel street twin. It will again be bullet proof and it’s 3lb’s lighter then stock (the only problem with it in street use is that it’s really grabby which takes a lot of getting used to in traffic, it can be slipped, doesn’t really chatter, but the heavier mass of the steel flywheel lets you pull away slowly and smoothly).
If you have a SPEC, well, you’ll eventually end up with a street twin if you make any power or do any real racing. Hopefully you won’t be welding pieces of your transmission back together like Ernest before you ‘convert’
Ernest- you’ve got the puck explanation backwards. Generally, fewer pucks mean a grippier clutch. I think that Randy on mafb explained it best with it being the difference between putting your flat hand against someone’s chest and rotating vs digging a few of your fingers in and doing the same… which one will hurt more?
Second, are you saying that your street twin has sprung clutch hubs? Mine has solid hubs on both disks, and to be honest, I don’t know how you would put a real sprung hub in there, I don’t think that there is room.
Hum… actually, I’d love to go in a ride in someone’s street twin car that’s gotten it in the last year or so, since I’m starting to wonder if they’ve changed their clutch compound to make it engage softer. Maybe if you ever quit breaking your car
FWIW, Ernest is not the only one that has blown up a spec clutch. It’s common enough that last I heard SPEC is giving out replacements. Secondly, I haven’t heard of anyone getting over 10K miles out of them in any application.
I went with a street twin way back when no one was really running them, and got a lot of crap from the local guys about “why are you wasting your money on that” (I feel vindicated since pretty much all of them are now running street twins). I installed it and pulled it 7x before it was right (again, a pretty early model), McCleod express shipped stuff back and forth every time till it was right (I wish it was right to start with, but at least they stood behind their problems).
My opinion:
If you have a big HP street car, go for a steel flywheel street twin. It will be bullet proof and will feel the most like a stock clutch.
If you race the car (rr or drag) go with an aluminum flywheel street twin. It will again be bullet proof and it’s 3lb’s lighter then stock (the only problem with it in street use is that it’s really grabby which takes a lot of getting used to in traffic, it can be slipped, doesn’t really chatter, but the heavier mass of the steel flywheel lets you pull away slowly and smoothly).
If you have a SPEC, well, you’ll eventually end up with a street twin if you make any power or do any real racing. Hopefully you won’t be welding pieces of your transmission back together like Ernest before you ‘convert’
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 699
From: Decatur, AL
Why would you say that there is possibility of breaking your tranny with a clutch other than street twin when there are numerous posts of people breaking driveline parts with it. From what i've read on here people find out that the output shafts break along with aftermarket rears sometimes.
Joe
Joe
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Joined: Feb 1999
Posts: 34
From: Fairfax, Virginia
Mark,
Perhaps there is something to the theory of 4 vs 6, but (at least with the SPEC), the 4 puck design is for the stage 3, and the 6 puck design is for the stage 4, each puck is the same size on the 4 and 6 puck design. My thinking was "more surface area, more grip". Especially with that Kevlar or Carbon, I remember asking SPEC about it directly, and they didn't think it would work well on the street at all. I'll grant that if the spring pressure is different between the two, then all bets are off, either one could be grippier. But then, what do I know
As for the Street Twin being unsprung, I can't trust my memory clearly, I would have to go back and look at a picture of it open to see. I don't remember.
RichJ has a street twin, and he said after about 1000 miles it finally smoothed out and had no chatter anymore. The pressure of the clutch feels heavy than stock, but it's nice and smooth.
-Ernest
95 Z
Off to Indy tomorrow!
Perhaps there is something to the theory of 4 vs 6, but (at least with the SPEC), the 4 puck design is for the stage 3, and the 6 puck design is for the stage 4, each puck is the same size on the 4 and 6 puck design. My thinking was "more surface area, more grip". Especially with that Kevlar or Carbon, I remember asking SPEC about it directly, and they didn't think it would work well on the street at all. I'll grant that if the spring pressure is different between the two, then all bets are off, either one could be grippier. But then, what do I know
As for the Street Twin being unsprung, I can't trust my memory clearly, I would have to go back and look at a picture of it open to see. I don't remember.
RichJ has a street twin, and he said after about 1000 miles it finally smoothed out and had no chatter anymore. The pressure of the clutch feels heavy than stock, but it's nice and smooth.
-Ernest
95 Z
Off to Indy tomorrow!
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 147
From: Carlsbad, CA USA
Geeze, everytime we get on this topic it's the same old stuff!
No matter what part you want to dicuss, when you're dealing with modified motors, trannies, rearends & everything in between, there's going to be people happy and people pissed. Then add the abuse most of us put these cars through and you can take it to the bank!
I personally have the SPEC Stage III with the ceramic disk and the aluminum FW. I simply love it. It went in with my rebuild and probably has about 11k miles on it but only 15 - 20 1/4 mile passes. My car is not my daily driver but I put about 6K miles a year of pleasure driving. It was very grabby at first but has broken in quite nicely now. As a matter of fact, the more I abuse it the better mannered it seems. I run around 600 ft lbs of torque, launch at 5K and "power shift" without any slipping or other problems. No more smelly, difficult to shift clutch.
I went through a McCleod (NOT A STREET TWIN THOUGH) and a Centerfarce IN A 2 MONTH PERIOD before I went to this unit.
My best friend runs the Street Twin and is equally enamored with it. He had his before I got the SPEC and I probably would have got it but I had SUCH bad luck with my previous McCleod product, I wanted to try something different.
I may sing a different song if problems develop down the road but that's possible with every part in my car. Heck, I remember when everyone with a Crane ignition box thought they were the biggest POS but there are tons of them out there working flawlessly (not for me though, I love my MSD) ;-)
Anyway, just adding my .02. YMMV
Oh, one more thing ..... why are you thinking about the Stage 4? The question has been asked and I haven't heard an answer. I would think that's a pretty serious setup for a street car. I think my unit is supposed to hold 700 rwhp. Is it a race only car? If that's the case, get an auto ;-)
No matter what part you want to dicuss, when you're dealing with modified motors, trannies, rearends & everything in between, there's going to be people happy and people pissed. Then add the abuse most of us put these cars through and you can take it to the bank!
I personally have the SPEC Stage III with the ceramic disk and the aluminum FW. I simply love it. It went in with my rebuild and probably has about 11k miles on it but only 15 - 20 1/4 mile passes. My car is not my daily driver but I put about 6K miles a year of pleasure driving. It was very grabby at first but has broken in quite nicely now. As a matter of fact, the more I abuse it the better mannered it seems. I run around 600 ft lbs of torque, launch at 5K and "power shift" without any slipping or other problems. No more smelly, difficult to shift clutch.
I went through a McCleod (NOT A STREET TWIN THOUGH) and a Centerfarce IN A 2 MONTH PERIOD before I went to this unit.
My best friend runs the Street Twin and is equally enamored with it. He had his before I got the SPEC and I probably would have got it but I had SUCH bad luck with my previous McCleod product, I wanted to try something different.
I may sing a different song if problems develop down the road but that's possible with every part in my car. Heck, I remember when everyone with a Crane ignition box thought they were the biggest POS but there are tons of them out there working flawlessly (not for me though, I love my MSD) ;-)
Anyway, just adding my .02. YMMV
Oh, one more thing ..... why are you thinking about the Stage 4? The question has been asked and I haven't heard an answer. I would think that's a pretty serious setup for a street car. I think my unit is supposed to hold 700 rwhp. Is it a race only car? If that's the case, get an auto ;-)
Last edited by Blown 96 WS-6; May 6, 2003 at 04:13 PM.
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 520
From: MD
Heh, I don’t know that mine has ever exactly chattered, but it does engage so positively that it’s very difficult to drive as smoothly as a stock clutch. It’s nothing like some of the Kevlar clutches floating around there, which seem to chatter if you look at them funny…
Funny, I put the car back on the road last week and found that the thing is much smoother then I remembered it.
Funny, I put the car back on the road last week and found that the thing is much smoother then I remembered it.
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 96
From: Westminster, MD
I owned the older version of the Street twin. After the install, it would not disengage. I'm positive that it had to do with the shims but I didn't feel like dishing out another $350 to have the tranny removed again, so I bought a SPEC stage V. Worked great for awhile, then the disc fused to the pressure plate and flywheel. I It was streetable too IMO. So now I'm out $700 for labor on 2 clutches and SPEC sent me a replacement clutch, with the stage V pressure plate and stage IV ceramic disc since I didn't want to take chances with the iron discs anymore. I just installed this one myself. I still haven't had any time to drive it since the heads are off the car.
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 96
From: Westminster, MD
I owned the older version of the Street twin. After the install, it would not disengage. I'm positive that it had to do with the shims but I didn't feel like dishing out another $350 to have the tranny removed again and again (and keep taking my chances), so I bought a SPEC stage V. Worked great for awhile, then the disc fused to the pressure plate and flywheel. It was streetable too IMO. So now I'm out $700 for labor on 2 clutches and SPEC sent me a replacement clutch, with the stage V pressure plate and stage IV ceramic disc since I didn't want to take chances with the iron discs anymore. I just installed this one myself. I still haven't had any time to drive it since the heads are off the car.
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