CMotorsports recommended the stage 4 SPEC and SPEC said the stage 4 is more harsh on the street (releasing). The way the guy at SPEC explained the characteristics of the clutch it sounded like the way my Centerforce released. Any opinions? I don't wanna spend 1k on a clutch setup if I can spend $500 on a clutch and flywheel from SPEC. Centerforce is out of the question as I just smoked it and had alot of problems getting it in gear.

Thanx
Joe

 

Your stage 4 will have no "slip" when you let in the clutch. It's either in or out. It will be damn near impossible to drive in traffic, as you will have to goose it, then let in the clutch, then slam on the brakes to avoid crashing into the next car. If you live anywhere where there is any form of traffic, don't get this. However, if this is for a track only car, you won't care.

My personal opinion is that you stay away from SPEC clutches. I had a Stage 3 kevlar which barely lasted 1000 miles, and was down to the rivits. Then I had a stage 3 carbon, which engaged very roughly for 1000 miles, and then exploded, destroying the front of my transmission (bellhousing was blown completely apart), as well as other various parts of the car. So, yeah, I saved a few bucks buying the SPEC, but I spent a few thousand and doing 3 clutch installs inside of a year (I happen to be running a Street Twin now).

If you scan the message board, you will see several other members did not have the best of luck with the SPEC stuff. And I am not a superfast car, I'm running a mid 12 sec 95 z-28.

Pick something else.

-Ernest
12.2 @ 114

 

Atleast they seem to have corrected most of the problem. They've have many new revisions and haven't heard of many complaints. OTOH I heard more negative than positive about Centerforce. Go figure. The Centerforce lasted about 7k miles...but it was a POS still. I know alot of some mustang drivers locally who love their SPEC clutches and really haven't heard alot of bad things. Thanks for sharing your experience though. Have you ridden in or driven a stage 4?

Thanx
Joe

 

I looked at a Stage 4 originally. Have you seen a picture of it? It has an unsprung pressure plate. It will not slip. The closest you can come to it is to use a ceramic disc on a stage 3, and even that basically slips so little you won't like it, either. But, if it's something you think you can live with, then by all means get it. I really think you will hate it, anyone who wants to drive their car on the street will hate it. It's like saying you want a spooled rear installed instead of a limited dif. It's too harsh. But, again, maybe you have plans for something that I don't know about or maybe you don't drive it much. That's ok. I would love to be wrong, and have you post how great it was in your car, I'd consider buying it even. But, it's just plain physics, it's going to be awful, and I'm suprised that a shop would recommend such a thing for a street car.

As for the "improvements" they've made with the clutch, I would say that although it's possible, I still wouldn't trust them. I just changed out the last SPEC 3 less than 2 months ago, they must have *just* made their improvements. And you are right, I hear Mustang people say they like the SPEC clutch in their car. Maybe they had more practice before they starting making clutches for our cars, I don't know, but I still wouldn't try them again for awhile. You don't hear bad things about the Street Twin except that it sticks like glue.

If you do decide to get the SPEC, definitely post about the experience. I'd like to hear it.

-Ernest
95 Z

 

Nothing is set in stone yet....except for ruling out the possibility of purchasing a Centerforce. The guy at SPEC did recommend the Stage 3 ..... but recommended the Ceramic version. He said that is what he had in his car and loves it....but he works for them. I do like the idea that if all hell broke loose....they facility is close to 1 hour away from my house. Also....the McLeod is $900 right?

Thanx
Joe

 

A guy in my club had a McLeod in has car, but after tons of problems with it he finally gave up. McLeod gave him a total refund and paid for all the labor fees he had built up over the several months he dealt with it, which I guess does say good things about thier customer support. Now he has a carbon SPEC3 and says he loves it. I'm not sure if he's on this board but I'm pretty sure he's on LS1.com and LS1tech as andyws6. FWIW a large majority of the people in my club with aftermarket clutches have SPEC3s, and no one has had any problems with them(that I know of).

Next month I'm putting a T56 in my A4, and a ceramic SPEC3 will be going in at the same time. I plan on driving it daily. Granted, they don't like to slip, but all the guys I know who have them have no complaints after getting used to them.

 

If I were to do it all over again (I'm on aftermarket clutch #4, and on my second Spec Stage III Carbon), I would have went w/ the Street Twin in the first place. Sure, I hear the claims (from SPEC even) about all the fixes they have done with their stuff, which does jack for the large number of people suckered in by the hype of the original clutches. 10k miles on my Stage III Carbon, with not a lot of track use or abuse in general, pull it out for something totally not clutch related, and ended up w/ this.

Why I have another one in there. Friend had many problems w/ Star and ended up going back to stock, not trusting his new Stage III Carbon he got (that his car didn't need). Just gave it to me basically.

 

I also want to be clear on two different trains of thought.

1. This one is the most important. Whichever clutch you choose to go with, for a street car, you want to stay away from anything saying that it has an unsprung pressure plate. It doesn't matter who makes it, you don't want it for a street car, it won't allow you to gradually move. Another pratical matter is to stay away from ceramic, even in a sprung (i.e. street) pressure plate, it's just a little too rigid. Kevlar is really smooth, carbon takes a while to break in (probably about a 1000 miles to get it smooth), but it can be good. Of course, organic is the smoothest

So, with that said, if you are going to pick a SPEC, pick a stage 3, not a stage 4 or 5.

2. This part is just my experience and opinion, SPEC does not appear to be making parts that keep up with real racing. I suppose if I just drove around, my SPEC's might have been ok, but I'm not, I'm drag racing all season long (7 months of the year), at least twice a month, figure 6 passes on average each time I go. It's not a heavy schedule, and it's not the fastest car, but their products couldn't keep up with me. I would not trust them again until I saw someone say that they had raced on it for a year, running low 12's or faster with ET streets or something similiar.

I just wanted to be clear that the first issue is drivability, and the second is a separate issue with SPEC themselves.

As you can see, already one other person who has actually used the product is supporting my belief that they are not as good a product as believed and has posted above. I'm not into "my friend has one and it's great" or "Lots of peoplehave them and they seem happy". It doesn't tell me anything. I need to hear "I used it, beat on it, and this is what happened". Good or bad.

Like I said earlier, if you do a search on SPEC in the message forums, you'll find lots of information and pictures.

-Ernest
95 Z

 

You really need to do a search. Go with the Street Twin. I didn't the first time, and was sorry. It ends up being more expensive to go with an inferioir product and then having to replace it. Do yourself a favor.

Rich Krause

 

Well I have a poll going in lt1 tech and 3 said it held up great with none dissatisfied so far. It's easy to say "go with the street twin" when I have only seen 2 that werent satisfied with SPEC.....and 1 with Street Twin (lots less of them sold). I just spent $2400 on a 12 bolt so if the majority of the people had a SPEC that holds then so be it. I'm not going to just jump in .... but if there aren't that many people that had problems....and much more that were happy...then seems like the way to go.

IF YOU'VE HAD PROBLEMS WITH YOUR SPEC PLEASE POST

Thanx for the opinions guys.

Joe

 

I'll post one last time, and then I'll stop.

I took a look at your poll (I didn't vote, I don't want to skew your results, and I've already voiced it here), and the people who responded that it was "great" are running high 13's and low 14 second quarter miles. My stock clutch ran great with those times also.

-Ernest
95 Z
12.2@114

 

When searching I only found some word of mouth experiences that were bad about SPEC...for the most part...maybe 1 or 2 direct. I think one guys name is Brook...aggiez28....loves his stage 3 along with others when I searched. You don't think the 6 puck design helps at all?

Joe

 

I have the STG 4, but have no idea how it drives yet.

Jose

 

OK, I broke my promise. I'll post a response.

Concerning your question: a 6 puck design vs a 4 puck could make it more grippy. When the clutch worked, it worked well, it's the reliability that's a concern here. 6 pucks just distributes the force around a little more and reduces the amount of slip you will get when putting in or taking out the clutch. The reason 4 pucks were used in the street version originially was because the 6 puck design didn't have enough slippage for the street. However, I really think the design flaw exists in the pressure plate, not the amount of pucks, though. Because a non-standard material is used (kevlar, ceramic, carbon), the thickness is drastically different from the stock material (asbestos-like). It's a much thinner thickness than stock, so the pressure needs to be adjusted a little differently coming on and off against that material. This is why there are so many problems with it. They have to guess a little here, so they try some pressure, it wears down too quickly in the real world, they try a little different spring rate, it's clamping too hard, shattering items, etc. Perhaps they tried using the stock settings, but that won't work because of the extra distance it has to travel to close on the disc, making it feel sloppy.

-Ernest

 

I really wish someone who has ridden or driven a stage 4 would "chime in". If it is at all tolerable I will get the stage 4.....pretty much the same cost anyway.....and if it will hold....screw it. My centerforce chattered and was pretty much either "on or off".

Joe