which would be better i know the older ones didn't have the letters at all and were a little smaller with the 74658a being a little beefier, but i've never seen a 74658c.

 

You want the borg warner 29 element dual cage sprag.I do not know what part numbers go to which not being at the shop right now.

 

The 74658C is the Raybestos SKF single cage late oem design. I use these in all of my performance buildups. Some people like the Borg Warner dual cage design. Both are good. I have seen both of them do well, and I have seen them both fail. Having torn down hundreds of units, the SKF sprag usually has less wear on them, and the inner race has less wear also. Your choice.

 

The SKF sprag is pure junk! DON'T BUY ONE!!! They won't handle very many good 60 ft. launches. Don't be misled by transmission builders who use them because they cut corners. The ONLY sprag that will hold up in a race 4L60E is the dual cage 29 element Borg-Warner sprag.
We see the SKF sprags fail at an alarming rate in units built by others who chose to use them!

Frank
CPT

 

so the 74658C is the skf single cage? i thought the 74658C was the dual cage 29 element Borg-Warner.

I just want to be sure.

 

I've had the SKF sprag for over 3YEARS now and it has held up to a 10.79 @ 128 mph with a 1.57 60ft on NOS, and also numerous 11.6 @ 117 mph passes with a 1.66 60ft. Yes I drive my car to and from the track, 1 hour both ways. So to say they are crap is not true. I guess we are all entitled to our opions. Just my 2 cents.

 

I would agree while I do preferr the Borg warner dual cage personally I do know of some fast cas running the SKF also , I think alot of times its a builder preference, Its like Zpack verse high enegry frictions or fairbanks verses the sonnax second servos , Its about what has worked for the individual. AS the say "Theres more that one way to skin a cat" lol and anyone can be just as good as anothers as long as it gets the job done and thats what counts.

 

Here's a typical picture of an SKF single cage sprag.


These will all end up like this with a car pulling good 60 ft. times on a regular basis (not one that has 60'ed in the 1.5's once or twice.)

I've been building Race 700's since the late 90's, when GM went to the single cage sprags, and then carried them over to the 4L60E's. We've ALWAYS replaced them with the MUCH BETTER dual cage design.

I'm not going to argue about theory. I will, however state a fact. The FACT is, the SKF is junk. They're not suited for a pick-up truck, let alone anything cutting good 60 ft. times.

If you've got one in a quick car, you're on "borrowed time". There's an old saying..."The sun even shines on a dogs *** every now and then."

Frank
CPT

 

I guess that sprag didn't make it? I know I said I had this tranny for over 3 years with numerous trips to the track and local street scene. And the best part is knowing I built it myself with some good advise from a friend or two. Like I said before the SKF can't be all that bad because I'm still driving my car. I also know of a couple guys that are running 9's with a SKF sprag.

But you know what? It doesn't matter, two each its own.

 

...And exactly how many 700/4L60E's have you built? Your sig says you've got a Pro Built transmission. You're Cardomain page says your car runs 11.27???

If you built a transmission with one of Danas kits, or bought a Pro Built unit, you should know that Dana is a "Minimalist". He puts as little money into a build as he can. Dana claims..."It works very well for me". Obviously, it doesn't, because I've had his transmissions in my shop. One only lasting 500 miles.

I'm not intentionally trying to "slam" anyone. My only objective is to keep people from buying junk parts. I don't want to see Criiter use an SKF sprag, because I know it's going to fail!


Frank
CPT

 

First off all I want to know is why are you attacking me?? I didn't do or say anything to offend you. Why would I? I don't even know you. That 11.27 was my first time using the juice 100 shot. My susp was not set up correctly and lack of experience didn't help either. I guess I need to update my web page too.

I'm just your average everyday car guy that likes to get his hands dirty, so yes I did build my own tranny. I've built about a hand full.

BY NO MEANS AM I TRYING TO COMPETE OR COMPARE MYSELF TO YOU, DANA, OR ANY OTHER BUILDER. I'm pretty sure you guys have more experience than I do because you guys do it for a living. I rarely reply to any thread and I've been a member on this board since 2001. And this is one of the main reasons why I don't reply or post anything.

I'll step up to the plate and say "hey your right and I'm outta here Peace"!!!

 

I was not intentionally trying to attack you. you replied to this thread, and were trying to argue against a FACT. I'm just protecting the other members from your lack of knowledge about these transissions. Why did I mention the other inconsitencies from your posts? I was trying to show that some other things you claim don't make sense, either. Why did you give Pro built credit for building your transmission in your earlier sigs? Obviously you've already proven you'vce lied about one or the other.
No, you didn't try to offend me, personally, but you're just giving out bad information. Somebody has to "police" it when someone does that here, so nobody ever uses junk parts...just because he's CLAIMED it's working for him! If I came on here and stated that my car runs 9's because I fill the tank with rubbing alcahol, you can bet that someone is going to try it. That doesn't make it true...Just as your CLAIM about getting a junk sprag to hold up.

Frank
CPT

 

Pretty much one of the main reasons CPT was never considered in my final decision for a transmission. I've noticed a pattern of subtle degrading comments to posters and against competing tranny builders. This might work fine for politicians, but it's bad business practice to expose yourself in this manner to the public. There are far better ways to state your opinion with a positive light and free from personal attacks.

 

LOL...Some people just can't handle the truth. I tell it like is. When I see someone giving bad information that is going to be counteractive to other members, I'm going to make light of it. So, you think it's OK for people to give out bad information on here? How would you feel if you were one of the one's who got burnt by someone elses bad information?
If me calling a spade a spade chased you to another builder, that's your perogative. There are many many others who appreciate my honesty.

Frank
CPT

 

I never stated that both car fanatics and professional builders shouldn't provide their [honest] opinions in these forums - after all, that's what these forums are for - for the exchange of information.

And yes, there is nothing rwong [sic] with being honest. But there is a difference between being honest and being honest via caustic replies. No, it's not always like that, but enough that led me, personally, to look elsewhere.

You can discuss how much better your builds are than XXX builder (or worse, to individuals), without having to revert to personal jabs - you do that by discussing what benefits you bring to the table, not how XXXX builder doesnt do something as well. Attempting to make yourself look better by belittling others only makes you look bad.

You might think you've only lost my business, but there may be others lurking and not participating, for which you may (or might have) lost business to. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying you don't do a great rebuild - I've seen many speak highly of your work. And that's not what this is about. It's about business practice and how you portray yourself to the public.

Here's a simple comparison. I ride bikes (my prized possession is a '99 turbo'd Hayabusa) and enjoy watching the bike-builder shows. I quit watching the one show (forget the name now), because all they did was bicker back-n-forth - it wasnt about building a bike anymore. (I know I know - the producers probably put them up to it). I watch the shows that stick to the program - building cars or motorcycles in a positive (or neutral) light. Which is what the forums should be about.