honestly....to my knowledge i can only think of 2:

job spetter
Mike Murillo

they did it on STOCK type suspension.....everyone else going those high 7s are LADDER-BARRED

 

29.5X10.5 ET Drag here on my buddies 95 z-28 (stock wheel tubs)

http://www.exit22.org/whfrontqtr.jpg
http://www.exit22.org/wrnside.jpg

...Soon to fit a 29.5X10.5W ET Drag on my 87 T/A w/factory wheel tubs....

------------------
1987 GTA- TH400 w/brake, 355, carbed, 11.3:1, TFS twisted wedge heads (non ported), Big Shot NOS, Lunati hyd roller .510/.525 lift 232/242 duration @.050, true dual 3" exhaust, hooker super comp 1 & 3/4" headers, flowmaster 2 chamber mufflers, no tailpipes, 6-pt roll bar strange 12-bolt w/ spool and 33 spline axles, BMR anti-roll bar, BMR LCA relocation brackets, BMR solid rod end panhard bar, PA tubular k-member and a-arms, PA coil over conversion, PA manual rack conversion, Weld Pro-Stars 15X10. Gonna try to fit 29.5X10.5W ET Drags out back, 15X3.5 up front

Best ET last year N/A,Stock suspension, on street tires, T56, stock rear end and 4.56's @ 3515 lbs: 12.44@115.1 (1/4) 8.15@90.5 (1/8)

drive it like you stole it!!

[This message has been edited by twistedwedge (edited September 15, 2002).]

[This message has been edited by twistedwedge (edited September 15, 2002).]

[This message has been edited by twistedwedge (edited September 15, 2002).]

 

Ah thats Jason Warren's rig ifI am not mistaken.

I am curious as to what he had to modify out back to make those tires work?

 

None. Unless they have something going on underneath the car that I don't know about.

I think I already metioned the lack of traction. That combined with the Excess weight in the F-Body Platform (at least when compared to a Fox Body Mustang) will always make it a tough battle. Note the fastest 4th gens on Stock Style Suspension on the list I've been keeping have HP to go Deep into the 8s, but yet why haven't they?
Guess I should ask Jerry (Bickel) why he only has about 2 sentances, on the Torque Arm Suspension in his chassis book, the surmise of it is, Don't bother.....

I Suppose you could ask Gene if you like, but I'd assume he's abit busy at the moment on a Motor for a Double Frame Rail Pro Mod.

I believe the GNX was an after Factory production put together by ASC (Not Buick)?? Beyond that my guess would be for bettery handling, but who knows... Why did they go to a TA Suspension back in 1982 in the F-Body?

Great! some basic info on his car and he's in. What class? Looking through the IHRA and NHRA record I didn't see anything to note.... Then again it could be he doesn't have the record in his particular class, but either way I'll give him/her props.

Daren its nice to know you care SO much. I'll ASSume you're looking at my webpage, and so I'll just leave it at, that theres alot more to the entire puzzle then is on those webpages.

For some reason I get the feeling from all of the posts I've seen from you that you feel like the people on this board leave out S/E Racers out of mind etc, and knowing that you are in those circles, I can just say that I myself personally have looked to the S/E Racers and Car builders numerous times for Insight and help.

ProchargedROC, I knew of those two in particular. 2 made it "multiple" (More then one) and I figured there may have been more as I'm not THAT heavy into the Mustang stuff.

 

Kurtis,

I first replied to your statement in regards to torque arm suspensions having a problem when sixty foot times are in the 1.30's. I pointed out that that statement is untrue, that is a fact.

As far as Gene is concerned, he is one of the best nitrous tuners in the country (as you probably already know). He will also build anything from a Stocker motor to a hot street motor. He has his hands in several local "Street" cars and very often comes out to our local track to tune them. I personally recomend his services based on a National Record holding LT-1 that he built for me a few years ago.

The Firehawk is also an after factory production vehicle, but the hood etc. still seems to work.

Al Corda, Top Stock, 10.0's (How he manages it, I don't know, but one very bad Stocker for sure).

Kurtis, I really am interested and hope that your endeavers are a success. You have a good web site and your car appears to be of very nice quality.

As far as Stockers are concerned I doubt that most of the people that post here care much one way or the other. When I run at my local track a lot of the F-body guys walk away shaking their heads when they can't find the nitrous bottle. I try to post here when I feel that the information that I post will be beneficial. It blows my mind at how much money these guys spend on parts that don't work any better than those that GM gave us.

As far as the Mustang versus Firebird thing goes, a few questions. What is the race weight on the Mustangs versus the Firebirds? How much of the weight on the Firebirds is over the front wheels? What is the total first gear ratio (rear and trans) on the Mustangs? I would be interested if anybody could answer these questions for me, because now I am really curious. I really want to know why an apples to apples F-body can't run with a Mustang.

Kurtis, I really enjoy this forum and have a bunch of non-Stocker F-body buddies, so please don't take my coments as anything other than light hearted.

Sincerely,

Daren

 

You guys evidentally from what I read do not put to much into what Darren has to say. Well I will chime in here, he is very knowledgeable with this series and knows as much as anyone I know about LT1 motors. I am a personal friend of his and he has helped me with allot of things. Although I am not running in the series he does, he offers me allot of suggestions and ways to cut cost. The way I look at it is why blow my money on stuff thats not really needed. These stocker guys from my understanding have very strict guidlines and must use mostly stock parts. So who better to know what they can and will hold up to. By the way Darren that 99 will never get done if you do not get out there working on it LOL...... I would hate to be there and you not run........ See ya Wed. 12:00 sharp

Mark

 

Daren,

I think somewhere in the mix I took some of your comments the wrong way, as though they were Snide/Sarcastic. (Don't you love trying to communicate through type instead of spoken words. ).

Nonetheless I understand what yo're saying. I myself when I go to a Division or National event love roaming around the S/E and SS/E guys trailers. Doin alot with a little. We all know just because S/E cars are using alot of stock parts doesn't make them cheap to build but it definetly gets my respect due to the restrictions. Top Fuel, Funny Car, TAD, etc? I can go to the Theater if I wanna watch Paid Entertainers.

I think there's probably some differences in the type of cars being raced here. A ~500hp S/E car (Beit Fox Body or F-Body) has a different load to take then a 900-1300hp car of the same chassis. I really don't know alot of the specifics on their chassis setups (Mustangs) honestly so I could only speculate...

The one thing I do see that has probably helped push the Mustang guys "ahead" so to speak, is the organization of their "Ford Only" and "Mustang Only" Groups. Cars with slightly more HP, Cars with aftermarket trannies (Liberty, Lenco, etc). Solid competition of course only furthers the technology and the way things are done. Ya think the engineer that designed the Fox chassis in the mid-late 70s ever thought about 1500hp Turbo Motors going over 170mph in the quarter? LOL.

Good luck to you also on your new car. I hope it brings you even more records.

Take care,

Kurtis

 

There have been quite a few more in the 7 second zone but not on a stock style suspension and i kinda keep up with it because i love that class

Most of the other guys who have gone in the 7 second zone on true 10.5 on a stock style mustang suspension are ladder-barred cars. Coil overs too

Another person that has a possible 7 second ride on true 10.5 and stock suspension was Lee Howie's old car. It was going 8.20s@172 in wilde street on 12.50 Hoosier Quicktimes

The was sold though, but i think he had the power to do it

 

I'll add in my in-sight and see if it helps you at all:

Most of the Fox-body stangs that are heavily into the NMRA are usually 3000lbs with driver, if not lighter. Now since the SS/0 guys are going sooooo fast they are upgrading to 25.1 spec chassis' and are even lighter. Just a moot point though....when Spetter and Murillo did go their 7 second passes i am 95% sure that they were in the 3100-3200lbs range with driver

I dont know how you would calculate the weight over the front of the car of each, but with all the lightweight stuff available i bet it cant be a big difference. If ANYTHING, the mustang guys are heavier in the nose due to large heavy *** turbos

From what i've gathered.....they all run powerglides and run gears in the 3.50 to 3.73 gear range.

Hope i helped answer some of your questions.....if you have anymore go ahead and ask and i'll see if i can give you anymore insight.

One trick i did learn about the SS/O guys were doing is mini-tubbing their cars and running 15x12" rims with true 10.5 tires to get a wider footprint

 

ROC,

Good information.

If the Mustang guys weigh 3100-3200 lbs that is an easy goal to reach. I run my Firebird in S/GTB at 3275 lbs (with me in it). It is my first F-body and has a bad front to rear bias, a little over 1700 lbs on the front end! The Camaro will not be so far off. There are a lot of light weight parts out there that are not legal for Stock (Hoods, brakes, K-members, etc.) and I have to run my bumpers.
What I am getting at is that 3000 lbs is easy with a newer F-body and it is also possible to balance the car pretty well. If you have to run extra weight to be legal you add it over the rear wheels.

There is a picture of my car at http://ihra.com/photos/2002/pro_am/m...rren_adams.jpg
That is a run on Radials that had a 1.41 sixty foot time. Note that the front tires are barely off the surface. Now imagine if I took 100 lbs off the front and put it in the back!

As far as the gearing is concerned, it is right where I figured it would be with small tires and lots of horsepower. Stockers are opposite, we have a lot of gear and a little horsepower, sixty foot times are everything.

A very important thing to note about the Mustangs is the use of a powerglide. They are light weight internally (free horsepower) and launch easier (a lot less gear).

Running the tires on wider rims is the best way to get as much contact area as possible. Look at that picture and notice that I have my 9 inch tires on 10 inch rims.

Something to note from the fastest F-body list is the mph's. I don't believe that these powerplants are quite there yet (or the cars are very heavy).

The next time that the "Fastest Street" stuff is at our track I will try to steal a time slip from one of the Mustang guys, because that would tell a lot.

Mark, thanks for the kind words. Yes I am going to try to get something done on the Camaro today. It is scheduled to go for paint the end of next week!! (All I have to do is Install the drivetrain, wire it, interior, etc!!).

Kurtis, your list and some of our discussions have really gotten me interested in this stuff. I'll have to say that I will stick to building Stockers myself and leave this "Fastest" stuff to you guys!! Good Luck!