What class are you planning to run next season?
12-09-2006, 06:23 AM
#31
Moderator
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Cinnaminson, NJ
Posts: 2,713
Just remember that although it's nice to go fast, speed means nothing in a bracket race. Most of the time, the slowest vehicles are also the hardest ones to beat. Newer vehicles with traction control are bracket racer's nightmares.
It's also nice to be able to go a few rounds. It doesn't take much to get in the top 10 or top 5 in the points standings to give you some bragging rights. You don't even need to win a race to be in the top 5. Just going more rounds than someone who's only won a single race and gone out in the first round every other race will keep you near the top in points.
Just because someone won a race doesn't mean they'll get past first round at the next race. Don't be intimidated by the vehicle beside you. When I'm in the water box, I look over at the car or look at the scoreboard just to see a dial in so I know if I launch first or not. Other than that I couldn't tell you who I race against nor do I really care. It can be just about anything. OK, one race I had to go up against the guy I pit with. I lost but we couldn't tell who won until we got the timeslips it was that close. I knew who I raced that time. Most of the time I'm asked who I raced and I usually say "I think it was a blue car"
Although you're racing someone, you're really racing your own race. You get a green light, one hurdle down. Was it a good light? You won't really know. If your opponent launches first, you may be able to see if he gets a good light or not. Once you're going down the track, you concentrate on your shifts. By half track, you should be in high gear. By the time you reach the 1000 foot mark you start to be aware of where your opponent is in relation to you and the finish line. If you're ahead, you need to decide within the next 2 seconds if you should stay in it or back out slightly to keep from breaking out. If you're behind you need to decide if you're going to catch up in time or if your opponent is going to break out.
There's so much happening that you don't really have time to see who or what you're racing. It takes time to get used to ignoring everything not related to what you're doing. After that it just becomes routine. Then you start relaxing and have fun. I still get the butterflies in the stomach sitting in the waterbox going over in my head everything I need to do but as soon as I turn on the prestage light I'm relaxed and concentrating on my procedures.
It's also nice to be able to go a few rounds. It doesn't take much to get in the top 10 or top 5 in the points standings to give you some bragging rights. You don't even need to win a race to be in the top 5. Just going more rounds than someone who's only won a single race and gone out in the first round every other race will keep you near the top in points.
Just because someone won a race doesn't mean they'll get past first round at the next race. Don't be intimidated by the vehicle beside you. When I'm in the water box, I look over at the car or look at the scoreboard just to see a dial in so I know if I launch first or not. Other than that I couldn't tell you who I race against nor do I really care. It can be just about anything. OK, one race I had to go up against the guy I pit with. I lost but we couldn't tell who won until we got the timeslips it was that close. I knew who I raced that time. Most of the time I'm asked who I raced and I usually say "I think it was a blue car"
Although you're racing someone, you're really racing your own race. You get a green light, one hurdle down. Was it a good light? You won't really know. If your opponent launches first, you may be able to see if he gets a good light or not. Once you're going down the track, you concentrate on your shifts. By half track, you should be in high gear. By the time you reach the 1000 foot mark you start to be aware of where your opponent is in relation to you and the finish line. If you're ahead, you need to decide within the next 2 seconds if you should stay in it or back out slightly to keep from breaking out. If you're behind you need to decide if you're going to catch up in time or if your opponent is going to break out.
There's so much happening that you don't really have time to see who or what you're racing. It takes time to get used to ignoring everything not related to what you're doing. After that it just becomes routine. Then you start relaxing and have fun. I still get the butterflies in the stomach sitting in the waterbox going over in my head everything I need to do but as soon as I turn on the prestage light I'm relaxed and concentrating on my procedures.
well said. I ran in Pro 2 years ago a Atco and got my butt handed to me for the 8 races I made it to. I only won a single round on the 7th or 8th race I made it to, but I had the time of my life! The funny thing is that after tha single round I won I was talking to this guy who pitted next to me and he told me the guy I beat was 2nd in points at the time. I kind of chuckled cause I have no clue who I am racing. Nor do I care.
When I pull up the only reason I look at the other car is to see what he or she is dialed in at so I know who is leaving first. Thats all I care about.
Unfortunately I broke my car the end of that year and spent all of this year working on a new motor. Hopefully I will be back to run a few round this year. I do not plan to sign up for points but I will catch a few rounds in Pro(the old "heavy" class). If you can only make a couple races each year its not always worth it to join and accumulate points. But it has its benefits. If you join and win a race you can earn extra prize money. At Atco I think the local sponsor puts up an additional $250 to the winner if they are earing points.
12-09-2006, 08:47 AM
#32
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Moore Oklahoma
Posts: 1,388
yea i think im gonna sign up.... even though im only going to go to a few races.... it would be cool seein my name up there lol and also its 5$ cheaper if ur signed up...if i go 10 times it pays for itself..... God i can't wait for next season...points racing is going to be sooo fun! hopefully i have a beater by then so i can trailer my car up there instead of driving it and not have to worry about not having a DD
1. Attend a bracket race and spend “a lot of time” standing at the starting line watching the “experienced drivers" do their burn-out, pre-stage, stage and when they leave on the tree (last amber). Most tracks use “auto-start” during a race, so each driver must do a courtesy pre-stage before either car stages, or it messes-up everything.
2. After learning the “correct” starting line and track routine, it would probably be best to do some test-n-tunes before entering a race. This will give you an opportunity to practice some and become comfortable with the routine. Also, to check-out your car to learn what it will run (possible dial-in) and to make sure it can run consistent times before everything is on-the-line during a bracket race.
3. Also, if you have some friends who are experienced bracket racers, spend some time talking with them about racing. You can learn a lot from experienced racers, but seat-time (experience) is everything in bracket racing!
WD
Last edited by The Engineer; 12-09-2006 at 05:14 PM.
12-09-2006, 09:50 PM
#33
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Haverhill MA
Posts: 2,307
In an earlier post I believe you said, “you have never been to the track before with your car.” Here are some of my recommendations for learning the track routine before you enter your first bracket race. And, I’m sure it will help to make your first race more enjoyable and help your possibilities of winning some rounds (which often isn’t easy).
1. Attend a bracket race and spend “a lot of time” standing at the starting line watching the “experienced drivers" do their burn-out, pre-stage, stage and when they leave on the tree (last amber). Most tracks use “auto-start” during a race, so each driver must do a courtesy pre-stage before either car stages, or it messes-up everything.
2. After learning the “correct” starting line and track routine, it would probably be best to do some test-n-tunes before entering a race. This will give you an opportunity to practice some and become comfortable with the routine. Also, to check-out your car to learn what it will run (possible dial-in) and to make sure it can run consistent times before everything is on-the-line during a bracket race.
3. Also, if you have some friends who are experienced bracket racers, spend some time talking with them about racing. You can learn a lot from experienced racers, but seat-time (experience) is everything in bracket racing!
WD
1. Attend a bracket race and spend “a lot of time” standing at the starting line watching the “experienced drivers" do their burn-out, pre-stage, stage and when they leave on the tree (last amber). Most tracks use “auto-start” during a race, so each driver must do a courtesy pre-stage before either car stages, or it messes-up everything.
2. After learning the “correct” starting line and track routine, it would probably be best to do some test-n-tunes before entering a race. This will give you an opportunity to practice some and become comfortable with the routine. Also, to check-out your car to learn what it will run (possible dial-in) and to make sure it can run consistent times before everything is on-the-line during a bracket race.
3. Also, if you have some friends who are experienced bracket racers, spend some time talking with them about racing. You can learn a lot from experienced racers, but seat-time (experience) is everything in bracket racing!
WD
yea i def know what u mean....i've been to multiple bracket ravcing events and have studied it...i just need the track time...im gonna go to a few test and tunes early int he year next year....to get a lil expirence....and i figured i would just pick up the rest along the way u know?
01-07-2007, 02:38 PM
#34
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Moore Oklahoma
Posts: 1,388
The NHRA pro-teams are getting ready for the 2007 season.
http://www.nhra.com/content/news.asp...17756&zoneid=8
Personnally, Pro-Stock would be the pro-class I would like to run in. In Top-Fuel and Funny Car, they seldom have an all-out side-by-side race, whereas Pro-Stock is normally a close race every round.
WD
http://www.nhra.com/content/news.asp...17756&zoneid=8
Personnally, Pro-Stock would be the pro-class I would like to run in. In Top-Fuel and Funny Car, they seldom have an all-out side-by-side race, whereas Pro-Stock is normally a close race every round.
WD
01-07-2007, 07:14 PM
#35
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Tulsa, OK, USA
Posts: 738
Local Bracket Racing - No Electronics.
Running a series called CDRA, basically area tracks get together and compete against each other. Makes some nice long weekends being two days of racing not counting the Friday TnT. Also running the 12.0 index classes, won many of those.
Should be pretty good year, Tulsa is hosting an IHRA National Event this year.
Running a series called CDRA, basically area tracks get together and compete against each other. Makes some nice long weekends being two days of racing not counting the Friday TnT. Also running the 12.0 index classes, won many of those.
Should be pretty good year, Tulsa is hosting an IHRA National Event this year.
01-07-2007, 07:35 PM
#36
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Moore Oklahoma
Posts: 1,388
The past two years I've raced in all the CDRA events here in OKC. I won the Sportsmans class in here 2006 (got my picture in the CDRA news paper) back when my car was a low 12 second car. I'm not too big on 1/8 racing, but I've won several 1/8 mile events over the years.
This year I'll be running No-E (fast) and have a few upgrades to complete before the season begins. I guess they'll have a CDRA event here at OKC again this year. Possibly I'll see you there, or we could get paired-up during the race.
WD
This year I'll be running No-E (fast) and have a few upgrades to complete before the season begins. I guess they'll have a CDRA event here at OKC again this year. Possibly I'll see you there, or we could get paired-up during the race.
WD
01-08-2007, 04:10 AM
#37
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: GARDNERS,PA
Posts: 766
No points for me again this year. It's just too time consuming. If you miss a week you're toast in terms of making it to bracket finals. I'll run pro stick in spring and fall, some pro class brackets on the nicer summer days, the GM show race, and maybe I'll try some heads up pro tree Friday night stuff.
PS I hate being the slower car. Leaving first is a disadvantage IMO. If you're at all prone to red lights, these races are always lost.
Steve
PS I hate being the slower car. Leaving first is a disadvantage IMO. If you're at all prone to red lights, these races are always lost.
Steve
01-08-2007, 07:29 PM
#38
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Tulsa, OK, USA
Posts: 738
They have already posted the schedule for CDRA, looks like the expanded it to another track for both North and South Divisions. I have raced many of times at Thunder Valley, I'm pretty I have met you at least once or twice when I was down there. Chances are I might be down there once or twice this year, have a pretty light schedule this year compared to last year.
I keep track of my schedule on my site.
2007 Schedule
01-09-2007, 08:15 AM
#39
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: West Lafayette, Ohio
Posts: 111
Although my car remains street legal, I am going to run in IHRA Stock Eliminator under the Pure Stock class. I can run B-D/PS (depending on the weight I choose) or A-C/PS if I claim a Ram Air car. Will also bracket race at my local track in the no-box class (footbrake) class. Class racing in IHRA is basically bracket racing (as long as you are under the index) unless you run another car in eliminations in the same class as you. Most likely I'll stay in C/PS which has a 12.75 (8.30 1/8th mile) index and a race weight of 3320. Rules are pretty straight forward: can't touch the engine, headers allowed (with mufflers), any converter, any gear, slick or DOT drag tire, bolt-on suspension work, minor weight reduction, etc. Would love to dip into the 11s in this trim. We'll see ... 
01-09-2007, 11:00 AM
#40
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Moore Oklahoma
Posts: 1,388
Skaufman
How tall are your Hoosers and what kind of trap RPM are you turning with the 4.30s?
I'm planning to go to a Moser 12-bolt this season w/ 4.30s and 28" slicks. The best I can figure (using several methods), the new gear/slick combination (w/ converter slipage included) should be around 6380 at the trap.
WD
How tall are your Hoosers and what kind of trap RPM are you turning with the 4.30s?
I'm planning to go to a Moser 12-bolt this season w/ 4.30s and 28" slicks. The best I can figure (using several methods), the new gear/slick combination (w/ converter slipage included) should be around 6380 at the trap.
WD
01-09-2007, 11:34 AM
#41
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: West Lafayette, Ohio
Posts: 111
The Hoosiers are 28" and it's a new combination so I haven't been out with it yet. I did much reading on the subject, and some calculations, and I figured it more to be in the 5900 range through the traps. Since those tires are radials they won't grow either. We'll see how close I came when I run it here soon. I had to keep in mind that I have to run the stock cam and wanted to go through as close to maximum RPM that it would allow.
Scott
01-09-2007, 03:08 PM
#42
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Moore Oklahoma
Posts: 1,388
The Hoosiers are 28" and it's a new combination so I haven't been out with it yet. I did much reading on the subject, and some calculations, and I figured it more to be in the 5900 range through the traps. Since those tires are radials they won't grow either. We'll see how close I came when I run it here soon. I had to keep in mind that I have to run the stock cam and wanted to go through as close to maximum RPM that it would allow. Scott
Currently I’m running 3.73s w/ small 26” ET Streets and a Vigilante 3200 convert. With this configuration I’m showing 6100 trap RPM on the factory tach, which is probably about 5950 RPM actual (as F-body factory tachs read about 150 high).
However, my launches and 60 ft times are not consistent with the 3.73s and small 26” ETs. Therefore I’m looking for some improved performance in this area and plan to go to a Moser 12-bolt w/ 4.30s and larger 28” slicks. Based on “several calculations” of my own using my current trap RPM (5950) as the “baseline” (which includes converter slippage), I have determined my new trap RPM w/ the 4.30s and 28” should be around 6380 RPM (6400 rounded-up) which would be “spot-on” for my 396 stroker power band. Although, some of my friends think the 4.30s will yield too much trap RPM. But they haven’t run the numbers, just their gut feeling for what’s that is worth.
Based on my calculations, I think your actual trap RPM will be above 5900. Did you allow for converter slippage? Most drive-train calculators that I’ve seen do not factor-in slippage. Also, I will be very interested to see exactly what your trap RPM is when you test-n-tune in the near future, so lets keep in touch. I’m still several weeks away from my 12-bolt/4.30 install (still working on the 6-point roll-bar and Racetronix fuel pump), but I’ll let you know what my trap RPM is when I get everything together and tested (before the NHRA season begins here in March).
Good luck with your new gear/slick setup and I’ll be looking forward to hearing back from you after your first test-n-tune.
WD
01-10-2007, 06:17 AM
#43
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: West Lafayette, Ohio
Posts: 111
Boy, I am sure glad that I didn't order the 4.56s like I was originally planning ...
I'll keep you up to date when I run it. Never having a F-body car before I wonder what the stock cam will pull to with good valve springs? Most of the class racing that I do will be 1/8 mile so that will be fine. If it becomes an issue (which was in the back of my head while ordering the 12-bolt) I'll do a H/C combo as that was my plan someday anyway. My long term goal is to have a H/C cam with nitrous that runs in the 9s which is why I went overkill on the 12-bolt and transmission.
01-10-2007, 06:58 AM
#44
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Moore Oklahoma
Posts: 1,388
Scott,
Good to hear back from you. One of the programmers (i.e. Brian Herter, PCMforLess) can tell you exactly what the shift points (RPM) should be with the stock head and cam, as-well-as the rev-limiter setting. Have you done any PCM reprogramming with your car? With the 4.30s you'll definitely need some reprogramming (particularly the shift points). At one point in time I knew all the factory preset WOT shift points (1-2, 2-3, around 5700 maybe), but can’t recall now.
WD
Good to hear back from you. One of the programmers (i.e. Brian Herter, PCMforLess) can tell you exactly what the shift points (RPM) should be with the stock head and cam, as-well-as the rev-limiter setting. Have you done any PCM reprogramming with your car? With the 4.30s you'll definitely need some reprogramming (particularly the shift points). At one point in time I knew all the factory preset WOT shift points (1-2, 2-3, around 5700 maybe), but can’t recall now.
WD
01-10-2007, 07:05 AM
#45
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: West Lafayette, Ohio
Posts: 111
Yeah, I had WAY too many changes to use the stock programming. I know also there is a lot left on the table from the factory even if you don't change anything. I prefer to use Ed Wright (bad experience with pcmforless once but that is another story ...) and in fact, just received the pcm back from him this week. Ed had my bolt-on Impala SS running 12.80s which, at the time, was around the 3rd quickest in the country. I requested that the rpm limit be bumped to around 6700 to be safe and let him figure out the shift points. He has forgot more about LT1s than I'll ever know. I just have some small things to do and hope to be out in early February when I pray that I can catch the DA well below sea level. 