Open Loop VS Closed Loop
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 32
From: Dallas, georgia
Open Loop VS Closed Loop
Ok Here is my Question.. I have lt1 edit.. And have been trying for a few days of constant driving and programming to get my car from a stumble, I stumble real bad at cruise (Coming off of, and off idle) My fuel trims are at 108 cruisng, and 160 upon wot.. Myquestion lies here, when the car is in open loop..It runs great trims (Fuel) Stay right at 128, can I just enable it to stay in open loop all the time ? What are the down falls from doing so.. I have no emissions, And am running 8 psi, However I am really getting tired of having to burn the clutch just to be able to start off..
This little problem is making me want to throw the charger in the trash and just go nos.. Does anyone have any open loop files tey care to share? Could someone please tell me f they have had any of the same troubles.. I have tried adjusting injector size, Tried recalibrating the maf, tried adding and removing timing.. Anyone have any ideas? I will try to post some logs later.. . Thanks,
This little problem is making me want to throw the charger in the trash and just go nos.. Does anyone have any open loop files tey care to share? Could someone please tell me f they have had any of the same troubles.. I have tried adjusting injector size, Tried recalibrating the maf, tried adding and removing timing.. Anyone have any ideas? I will try to post some logs later.. . Thanks,
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 32
From: Dallas, georgia
here is part of my cruise log
17:08:57 48 2150 43 0.0 2.76 2.81 194F -40F 10% 31 35 3 84 75 108 108 104 99 7 124 4858 0.9 57 -34F
17:08:57 48 2175 43 0.0 2.96 2.66 194F -40F 10% 36 34 3 768 821 108 108 97 93 7 124 4858 0.9 57 -34F
17:08:57 48 2150 44 0.0 2.84 2.62 194F -40F 10% 36 34 3 741 710 108 108 97 92 7 124 4858 0.9 57 -34F
17:08:57 48 2175 43 0.0 2.85 2.67 194F -40F 10% 38 35 3 258 107 108 108 104 100 7 124 4858 0.9 57 -34F
17:08:57 48 2200 43 0.0 2.94 2.79 194F -40F 10% 38 34 3 80 493 108 108 104 92 7 124 4858 0.9 57 -34F
17:08:57 48 2200 43 0.0 3.02 2.85 194F -40F 10% 38 34 3 120 813 108 108 105 92 7 124 4858 0.9 57 -34F
17:08:57 48 2200 44 0.0 3.01 2.62 194F -40F 10% 38 35 3 648 129 108 108 98 99 7 124 4858 0.9 57 -34F
17:08:58 48 2200 44 0.0 2.79 2.81 194F -40F 10% 36 34 3 728 80 108 108 98 99 7 124 4858 0.9 57 -34F
17:08:58 48 2200 44 0.0 2.78 2.75 194F -40F 11% 36 34 3 377 408 108 108 105 100 7 124 4858 1.0 58 -34F
17:08:58 48 2200 44 0.0 3.02 2.94 194F -40F 11% 36 35 3 62 80 108 108 105 100 7 124 4858 1.0 58 -34F
17:08:58 48 2175 44 0.0 3.08 2.94 194F -40F 11% 39 35 3 89 275 108 108 106 101 7 124 4858 1.0 58 -34F
17:08:58 48 2175 44 0.0 3.16 2.73 194F -40F 12% 38 38 3 360 422 108 108 107 101 7 124 4858 1.0 59 -34F
17:08:58 48 2175 44 0.0 3.04 3.02 194F -40F 13% 34 38 3 737 44 108 108 99 102 7 124 4858 1.0 60 -34F
17:08:58 48 2200 44 0.0 3.04 3.22 194F -40F 14% 41 38 3 53 40 108 108 107 105 7 124 4858 1.1 61 -34F
17:08:58 48 2200 44 0.0 3.54 3.43 194F -40F 14% 41 42 3 67 608 108 108 108 95 7 124 4858 1.1 62 -34F
17:08:58 48 2225 43 0.0 3.57 3.20 194F -40F 15% 38 42 3 107 608 108 108 110 104 7 124 4858 1.1 62 -34F
17:08:59 49 2225 43 0.0 3.68 3.48 194F -40F 15% 45 44 3 80 40 108 108 112 105 7 123 4858 1.1 62 -34F
17:08:59 49 2200 43 0.0 3.56 3.23 194F -40F 17% 38 44 3 89 53 108 108 115 108 7 123 4858 1.2 64 -34F
17:08:59 49 2225 41 0.0 4.01 3.69 194F -40F 19% 44 47 3 49 36 108 108 117 110 7 123 4858 1.2 67 -34F
17:08:59 49 2225 41 0.0 4.15 4.01 194F -40F 22% 48 54 3 40 89 112 112 118 112 11 123 4858 1.3 69 -34F
17:08:59 49 2250 40 0.0 5.05 4.99 194F -40F 24% 47 58 3 36 31 112 112 120 114 11 123 4858 1.4 71 -34F
17:08:59 49 2225 39 0.0 4.97 4.46 194F -40F 25% 50 63 3 31 22 112 112 122 115 11 123 4858 1.4 72 -34F
17:08:59 49 2250 38 0.0 5.22 4.91 194F -40F 27% 48 66 3 27 13 112 112 124 117 11 122 4858 1.5 73 -34F
17:08:59 49 2250 38 0.0 5.28 5.02 194F -40F 27% 50 68 3 22 13 112 112 126 120 11 122 4858 1.5 73 -34F
17:08:59 49 2200 38 0.0 5.19 4.85 194F -40F 27% 51 69 3 22 18 112 112 128 122 11 122 4858 1.5 73 -34F
17:08:59 50 2275 41 0.0 5.29 4.75 194F -40F 21% 58 63 3 22 18 112 112 130 123 11 120 4858 1.3 73 -34F
17:09:00 49 2225 42 0.0 3.85 3.86 194F -40F 13% 40 48 3 31 22 111 111 132 125 7 120 4858 1.0 73 -34F
17:09:00 50 2225 44 0.0 3.94 3.66 194F -40F 7% 39 38 3 53 49 108 108 133 126 7 120 4858 0.9 72 -34F
17:09:00 50 2250 43 0.0 3.86 3.11 194F -40F 5% 36 33 3 826 844 108 108 120 114 7 120 4858 0.8 72 -34F
17:09:00 50 2250 34 0.0 3.45 3.10 194F -40F 0% 38 28 3 888 888 108 108 121 114 3 120 4858 0.6 71 -34F
17:09:00 49 2200 34 0.0 3.57 3.23 194F -40F 0% 33 27 3 892 897 108 108 121 113 17 120 4858 0.6 71 -34F
17:09:00 50 2250 34 0.0 3.23 3.33 194F -40F 0% 44 25 3 884 808 108 108 117 110 17 120 4858 0.6 70 -34F
17:09:00 50 2275 34 0.0 3.23 3.07 194F -40F 0% 34 25 3 848 817 108 108 114 108 17 120 4858 0.6 69 -34F
17:09:00 49 2250 34 0.0 3.14 2.91 194F -40F 0% 39 25 3 826 808 108 108 111 105 17 122 4858 0.6 69 -34F
17:09:00 49 2225 34 0.0 3.31 3.10 194F -40F 0% 37 25 3 852 848 108 108 109 104 17 122 4858 0.6 68 -34F
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17:08:57 48 2175 43 0.0 2.96 2.66 194F -40F 10% 36 34 3 768 821 108 108 97 93 7 124 4858 0.9 57 -34F
17:08:57 48 2150 44 0.0 2.84 2.62 194F -40F 10% 36 34 3 741 710 108 108 97 92 7 124 4858 0.9 57 -34F
17:08:57 48 2175 43 0.0 2.85 2.67 194F -40F 10% 38 35 3 258 107 108 108 104 100 7 124 4858 0.9 57 -34F
17:08:57 48 2200 43 0.0 2.94 2.79 194F -40F 10% 38 34 3 80 493 108 108 104 92 7 124 4858 0.9 57 -34F
17:08:57 48 2200 43 0.0 3.02 2.85 194F -40F 10% 38 34 3 120 813 108 108 105 92 7 124 4858 0.9 57 -34F
17:08:57 48 2200 44 0.0 3.01 2.62 194F -40F 10% 38 35 3 648 129 108 108 98 99 7 124 4858 0.9 57 -34F
17:08:58 48 2200 44 0.0 2.79 2.81 194F -40F 10% 36 34 3 728 80 108 108 98 99 7 124 4858 0.9 57 -34F
17:08:58 48 2200 44 0.0 2.78 2.75 194F -40F 11% 36 34 3 377 408 108 108 105 100 7 124 4858 1.0 58 -34F
17:08:58 48 2200 44 0.0 3.02 2.94 194F -40F 11% 36 35 3 62 80 108 108 105 100 7 124 4858 1.0 58 -34F
17:08:58 48 2175 44 0.0 3.08 2.94 194F -40F 11% 39 35 3 89 275 108 108 106 101 7 124 4858 1.0 58 -34F
17:08:58 48 2175 44 0.0 3.16 2.73 194F -40F 12% 38 38 3 360 422 108 108 107 101 7 124 4858 1.0 59 -34F
17:08:58 48 2175 44 0.0 3.04 3.02 194F -40F 13% 34 38 3 737 44 108 108 99 102 7 124 4858 1.0 60 -34F
17:08:58 48 2200 44 0.0 3.04 3.22 194F -40F 14% 41 38 3 53 40 108 108 107 105 7 124 4858 1.1 61 -34F
17:08:58 48 2200 44 0.0 3.54 3.43 194F -40F 14% 41 42 3 67 608 108 108 108 95 7 124 4858 1.1 62 -34F
17:08:58 48 2225 43 0.0 3.57 3.20 194F -40F 15% 38 42 3 107 608 108 108 110 104 7 124 4858 1.1 62 -34F
17:08:59 49 2225 43 0.0 3.68 3.48 194F -40F 15% 45 44 3 80 40 108 108 112 105 7 123 4858 1.1 62 -34F
17:08:59 49 2200 43 0.0 3.56 3.23 194F -40F 17% 38 44 3 89 53 108 108 115 108 7 123 4858 1.2 64 -34F
17:08:59 49 2225 41 0.0 4.01 3.69 194F -40F 19% 44 47 3 49 36 108 108 117 110 7 123 4858 1.2 67 -34F
17:08:59 49 2225 41 0.0 4.15 4.01 194F -40F 22% 48 54 3 40 89 112 112 118 112 11 123 4858 1.3 69 -34F
17:08:59 49 2250 40 0.0 5.05 4.99 194F -40F 24% 47 58 3 36 31 112 112 120 114 11 123 4858 1.4 71 -34F
17:08:59 49 2225 39 0.0 4.97 4.46 194F -40F 25% 50 63 3 31 22 112 112 122 115 11 123 4858 1.4 72 -34F
17:08:59 49 2250 38 0.0 5.22 4.91 194F -40F 27% 48 66 3 27 13 112 112 124 117 11 122 4858 1.5 73 -34F
17:08:59 49 2250 38 0.0 5.28 5.02 194F -40F 27% 50 68 3 22 13 112 112 126 120 11 122 4858 1.5 73 -34F
17:08:59 49 2200 38 0.0 5.19 4.85 194F -40F 27% 51 69 3 22 18 112 112 128 122 11 122 4858 1.5 73 -34F
17:08:59 50 2275 41 0.0 5.29 4.75 194F -40F 21% 58 63 3 22 18 112 112 130 123 11 120 4858 1.3 73 -34F
17:09:00 49 2225 42 0.0 3.85 3.86 194F -40F 13% 40 48 3 31 22 111 111 132 125 7 120 4858 1.0 73 -34F
17:09:00 50 2225 44 0.0 3.94 3.66 194F -40F 7% 39 38 3 53 49 108 108 133 126 7 120 4858 0.9 72 -34F
17:09:00 50 2250 43 0.0 3.86 3.11 194F -40F 5% 36 33 3 826 844 108 108 120 114 7 120 4858 0.8 72 -34F
17:09:00 50 2250 34 0.0 3.45 3.10 194F -40F 0% 38 28 3 888 888 108 108 121 114 3 120 4858 0.6 71 -34F
17:09:00 49 2200 34 0.0 3.57 3.23 194F -40F 0% 33 27 3 892 897 108 108 121 113 17 120 4858 0.6 71 -34F
17:09:00 50 2250 34 0.0 3.23 3.33 194F -40F 0% 44 25 3 884 808 108 108 117 110 17 120 4858 0.6 70 -34F
17:09:00 50 2275 34 0.0 3.23 3.07 194F -40F 0% 34 25 3 848 817 108 108 114 108 17 120 4858 0.6 69 -34F
17:09:00 49 2250 34 0.0 3.14 2.91 194F -40F 0% 39 25 3 826 808 108 108 111 105 17 122 4858 0.6 69 -34F
17:09:00 49 2225 34 0.0 3.31 3.10 194F -40F 0% 37 25 3 852 848 108 108 109 104 17 122 4858 0.6 68 -34F
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Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 32
From: Dallas, georgia
wot and cruise
I hope this h18:02:53 31 3850 37 0.0 22.71 20.74 203F -40F 100% 200 104 3 892 910 160 160 147 142 15 120 7517 4.5 72 -34F
18:02:53 34 4125 37 0.0 23.16 22.06 203F -40F 100% 208 104 3 919 924 160 160 147 142 15 119 7517 4.5 72 -34F
18:02:53 37 4425 37 0.0 22.81 22.17 203F -40F 100% 202 104 3 924 932 160 160 145 139 15 117 7517 4.5 72 -34F
18:02:53 40 4950 37 0.0 22.51 22.16 203F -40F 100% 243 104 3 919 937 160 160 141 136 15 115 7517 4.5 72 -34F
18:02:53 44 5350 38 0.0 22.20 20.80 203F -40F 100% 255 104 3 928 937 160 160 138 133 15 113 7517 4.5 72 -34F
18:02:53 46 5600 38 0.0 19.96 19.07 203F -40F 100% 262 104 3 910 924 160 160 136 131 15 111 7517 4.5 72 -34F
18:02:53 48 5750 35 3.0 18.40 17.61 203F -40F 90% 262 104 3 901 928 160 160 134 129 15 108 7829 3.5 72 -34F
18:02:53 48 5750 36 3.0 17.30 16.51 203F -40F 48% 262 97 3 928 946 160 160 133 127 15 107 7829 2.2 72 -34F
18:02:54 35 5175 37 0.0 9.00 6.29 203F -40F 0% 299 30 3 835 688 156 156 131 126 3 105 7829 0.6 72 -34F
18:02:54 37 4775 38 0.0 5.52 5.26 203F -40F 42% 94 36 3 719 675 151 151 129 126 18 107 7829 1.9 72 -34F
18:02:54 40 5225 35 3.0 14.65 14.42 203F -40F 100% 187 104 3 737 391 147 147 127 139 18 109 7829 4.6 72 -34F
18:02:54 52 4850 34 2.9 19.24 20.00 203F -40F 100% 259 104 3 826 892 143 143 126 127 18 108 7829 4.6 72 -34F
18:02:54 59 4800 34 2.3 18.39 17.94 203F -40F 100% 244 104 3 870 888 139 139 124 124 18 107 7829 4.5 72 -34F
18:02:54 59 4825 34 2.3 16.46 15.76 203F -40F 100% 237 104 3 786 635 134 134 123 121 18 105 7829 4.6 72 -34F
18:02:54 59 4750 35 1.8 15.24 15.32 203F -40F 100% 239 104 3 666 169 130 130 122 133 18 104 7829 4.6 72 -34F
18:02:54 58 4725 35 1.8 14.69 14.91 203F -40F 100% 237 104 3 195 84 128 128 133 133 18 103 7829 4.6 72 -34F
18:02:54 58 4625 35 1.4 15.84 15.87 203F -40F 100% 222 104 3 759 89 128 128 125 133 18 99 7829 4.6 72 -34F
18:02:55 57 4550 35 1.4 15.96 14.94 203F -40F 100% 220 104 3 129 444 128 128 133 126 18 97 7829 4.5 72 -34F
18:02:55 56 4500 36 1.2 15.53 15.75 203F -40F 100% 220 104 3 475 84 128 128 125 135 18 96 7829 4.6 72 -34F
18:02:55 54 4325 36 1.2 14.51 15.70 203F -40F 100% 216 104 3 666 231 128 128 125 136 18 95 7829 4.6 72 -34F
18:02:55 53 4325 36 0.9 15.37 15.61 203F -40F 100% 200 104 3 115 728 128 128 133 128 18 95 7829 4.6 72 -34F
18:02:55 55 4425 36 0.9 15.46 14.83 203F -40F 100% 213 104 3 626 120 128 128 126 136 18 93 7829 4.6 72 -34F
18:02:55 56 4475 36 0.8 14.79 15.01 203F -40F 100% 222 104 3 155 626 128 128 134 128 18 92 7829 4.6 72 -34F
18:02:55 57 4600 36 0.8 15.78 16.02 203F -40F 100% 225 104 3 422 151 128 128 135 136 18 90 7829 4.6 72 -34F
18:02:55 58 4725 34 3.0 14.94 15.23 203F -40F 100% 233 104 3 448 222 128 128 127 136 18 90 8204 4.6 72 -34F
18:02:55 59 4900 34 3.0 16.20 16.33 203F -40F 100% 233 104 3 746 626 128 128 127 128 18 89 8204 4.6 72 -34F
18:02:55 60 4900 34 3.0 15.20 15.47 203F -40F 100% 240 104 3 408 160 128 128 134 136 18 88 8204 4.6 72 -34F
18:02:56 61 4950 34 3.0 15.95 16.19 203F -40F 100% 242 104 3 151 524 128 128 134 129 18 86 8204 4.6 72 -34F
18:02:56 62 4975 34 3.0 15.11 16.54 203F -40F 100% 251 104 3 639 84 128 128 126 137 18 85 8204 4.6 72 -34F
18:02:56 63 5125 34 3.0 16.04 16.53 203F -40F 100% 259 104 3 519 662 128 128 126 130 18 85 8204 4.5 72 -34F
18:02:56 64 5250 34 3.0 15.17 16.37 203F -40F 100% 263 104 3 320 315 128 128 134 138 18 84 8204 4.5 72 -34F
18:02:56 65 5275 35 3.0 15.75 15.43 203F -40F 100% 250 104 3 178 741 128 128 134 130 18 82 8204 4.5 72 -34F
18:02:56 66 5325 35 2.6 15.91 16.19 203F -40F 100% 263 104 3 591 608 128 128 127 130 18 82 8204 4.0 72 -34F
18:02:56 67 5425 36 2.1 15.52 15.03 203F -40F 57% 263 104 3 169 764 128 128 135 129 18 81 8204 2.4 72 -34F
18:02:56 64 5150 37 0.0 8.64 4.78 203F -40F 0% 254 27 3 901 697 126 126 127 128 17 80 8204 0.6 72 -34F
18:02:56 65 4725 37 0.0 3.97 4.07 203F -40F 27% 103 27 3 777 537 122 122 126 128 18 82 8204 1.5 72 -34F
18:02:57 69 4850 35 1.8 12.51 11.66 203F -40F 100% 185 104 3 160 58 128 128 133 135 18 84 8204 4.6 72 -34F
18:02:57 70 4125 35 1.5 17.96 18.75 203F -40F 100% 231 104 3 817 830 128 128 125 127 18 85 8204 4.5 72 -34F
18:02:57 70 4150 35 1.5 15.47 15.30 203F -40F 100% 205 104 3 813 670 128 128 128 126 18 85 8204 4.5 72 -34F
18:02:57 70 4200 35 1.3 15.05 16.07 203F -40F 100% 206 104 3 733 488 128 128 128 126 18 84 8204 4.5 72 -34F
18:02:57 71 4250 35 1.3 14.92 14.77 203F -40F 100% 201 104 3 555 80 128 128 128 134 18 82 8204 4.5 72 -34F
18:02:57 72 4275 34 2.9 15.38 15.59 203F -40F 100% 203 104 3 573 293 128 128 128 135 18 82 8319 4.5 72 -34F
18:02:57 73 4300 34 2.9 14.92 15.87 203F -40F 100% 207 104 3 653 400 128 128 128 135 18 82 8319 4.5 72 -34F
18:02:57 74 4450 34 2.9 14.89 15.75 203F -40F 100% 210 104 3 670 626 128 128 128 127 18 81 8319 4.5 72 -34F
18:02:57 75 4500 34 2.3 15.01 14.86 203F -40F 100% 211 104 3 639 142 128 128 128 135 18 81 8319 4.5 72 -34F
18:02:57 75 4400 34 3.0 14.97 14.83 203F -40F 100% 217 104 3 630 484 128 128 128 135 18 80 8767 4.5 72 -34F
18:02:58 76 4525 34 3.0 15.35 15.82 203F -40F 100% 222 104 3 786 764 128 128 128 127 18 80 8767 4.5 72 -34F
18:02:58 77 4650 34 3.0 15.35 15.18 203F -40F 100% 222 104 3 595 568 128 128 128 127 18 78 9349 4.5 72 -34F
18:02:58 78 4650 34 3.0 15.18 15.96 203F -40F 100% 230 104 3 675 182 128 128 128 134 18 77 9349 4.5 72 -34F
18:02:58 78 4600 34 3.0 15.58 15.38 203F -40F 100% 229 104 3 804 750 128 128 128 126 18 76 9349 4.5 72 -34F
18:02:58 79 4750 34 3.0 14.97 15.00 203F -40F 100% 230 104 3 786 147 128 128 128 133 18 76 9349 4.5 72 -34F
18:02:58 80 4750 34 3.0 15.43 15.15 203F -40F 100% 237 104 3 706 129 128 128 128 133 18 76 9841 4.5 72 -34F
18:02:58 81 4875 34 3.0 15.35 14.95 203F -40F 98% 236 104 3 804 315 128 128 128 133 18 74 11128 3.7 72 -34F
18:02:58 82 4925 34 3.0 15.55 16.14 203F -40F 100% 251 104 3 737 702 128 128 128 125 18 74 11128 4.5 72 -34F
18:02:58 83 4950 34 3.0 15.55 16.24 203F -40F 100% 250 104 3 773 759 128 128 128 125 18 73 11325 4.5 72 -34F
18:02:59 84 4950 34 3.0 15.59 16.30 203F -40F 100% 255 104 3 768 120 128 128 128 133 18 72 11325 4.1 72 -34F
18:02:59 84 4975 34 3.0 15.40 15.99 203F -40F 60% 246 104 3 795 817 128 128 128 125 18 72 11325 2.5 72 -34F
18:02:59 83 4800 37 0.0 6.01 6.21 203F -40F 0% 89 25 3 813 537 125 125 124 124 17 72 11325 0.6 72 -34F
18:02:59 83 4325 37 0.0 4.06 4.24 203F -40F 0% 102 20 3 764 586 121 121 128 128 17 73 11325 0.6 72 -34F
18:02:59 83 3975 37 0.0 4.78 4.70 203F -40F 0% 95 20 3 737 448 117 117 124 128 17 76 11325 0.6 72 -34F
18:02:59 81 3750 37 0.0 4.68 5.39 203F -40F 0% 82 21 3 737 702 112 112 128 128 17 81 11325 0.6 71 -34F
18:02:59 82 3725 36 0.0 4.75 4.90 203F -40F 0% 74 20 3 733 670 108 108 128 128 17 84 11325 0.6 71 -34F
18:02:59 82 3750 37 0.0 4.33 4.38 203F -40F 0% 62 20 3 728 639 108 108 128 128 17 86 11325 0.6 71 -34F
18:02:59 82 3750 36 0.0 4.58 4.64 203F -40F 0% 78 20 3 733 666 108 108 128 128 17 89 11325 0.6 71 -34F
18:03:00 82 3700 36 0.0 4.84 4.75 203F -40F 0% 83 20 3 728 630 108 108 128 128 17 90 11325 0.6 70 -34F
18:03:00 81 3700 36 0.0 4.58 4.61 203F -40F 0% 84 20 3 733 519 108 108 128 128 17 93 11325 0.6 70 -34F
18:03:00 81 3675 25 0.0 4.41 4.64 203F -40F 0% 67 20 3 728 670 108 108 128 128 17 96 11325 0.6 70 -34F
18:03:00 80 3675 11 0.0 0.00 0.00 203F -40F 0% 75 20 3 728 639 108 108 128 128 17 97 11325 0.6 70 -34F
18:03:00 82 3800 33 3.6 12.08 9.69 203F -40F 100% 147 104 3 746 817 128 128 128 128 18 99 11325 4.5 84 -34F
elps.. I need soe advice.. Sorry for the long post.. 0
18:02:53 34 4125 37 0.0 23.16 22.06 203F -40F 100% 208 104 3 919 924 160 160 147 142 15 119 7517 4.5 72 -34F
18:02:53 37 4425 37 0.0 22.81 22.17 203F -40F 100% 202 104 3 924 932 160 160 145 139 15 117 7517 4.5 72 -34F
18:02:53 40 4950 37 0.0 22.51 22.16 203F -40F 100% 243 104 3 919 937 160 160 141 136 15 115 7517 4.5 72 -34F
18:02:53 44 5350 38 0.0 22.20 20.80 203F -40F 100% 255 104 3 928 937 160 160 138 133 15 113 7517 4.5 72 -34F
18:02:53 46 5600 38 0.0 19.96 19.07 203F -40F 100% 262 104 3 910 924 160 160 136 131 15 111 7517 4.5 72 -34F
18:02:53 48 5750 35 3.0 18.40 17.61 203F -40F 90% 262 104 3 901 928 160 160 134 129 15 108 7829 3.5 72 -34F
18:02:53 48 5750 36 3.0 17.30 16.51 203F -40F 48% 262 97 3 928 946 160 160 133 127 15 107 7829 2.2 72 -34F
18:02:54 35 5175 37 0.0 9.00 6.29 203F -40F 0% 299 30 3 835 688 156 156 131 126 3 105 7829 0.6 72 -34F
18:02:54 37 4775 38 0.0 5.52 5.26 203F -40F 42% 94 36 3 719 675 151 151 129 126 18 107 7829 1.9 72 -34F
18:02:54 40 5225 35 3.0 14.65 14.42 203F -40F 100% 187 104 3 737 391 147 147 127 139 18 109 7829 4.6 72 -34F
18:02:54 52 4850 34 2.9 19.24 20.00 203F -40F 100% 259 104 3 826 892 143 143 126 127 18 108 7829 4.6 72 -34F
18:02:54 59 4800 34 2.3 18.39 17.94 203F -40F 100% 244 104 3 870 888 139 139 124 124 18 107 7829 4.5 72 -34F
18:02:54 59 4825 34 2.3 16.46 15.76 203F -40F 100% 237 104 3 786 635 134 134 123 121 18 105 7829 4.6 72 -34F
18:02:54 59 4750 35 1.8 15.24 15.32 203F -40F 100% 239 104 3 666 169 130 130 122 133 18 104 7829 4.6 72 -34F
18:02:54 58 4725 35 1.8 14.69 14.91 203F -40F 100% 237 104 3 195 84 128 128 133 133 18 103 7829 4.6 72 -34F
18:02:54 58 4625 35 1.4 15.84 15.87 203F -40F 100% 222 104 3 759 89 128 128 125 133 18 99 7829 4.6 72 -34F
18:02:55 57 4550 35 1.4 15.96 14.94 203F -40F 100% 220 104 3 129 444 128 128 133 126 18 97 7829 4.5 72 -34F
18:02:55 56 4500 36 1.2 15.53 15.75 203F -40F 100% 220 104 3 475 84 128 128 125 135 18 96 7829 4.6 72 -34F
18:02:55 54 4325 36 1.2 14.51 15.70 203F -40F 100% 216 104 3 666 231 128 128 125 136 18 95 7829 4.6 72 -34F
18:02:55 53 4325 36 0.9 15.37 15.61 203F -40F 100% 200 104 3 115 728 128 128 133 128 18 95 7829 4.6 72 -34F
18:02:55 55 4425 36 0.9 15.46 14.83 203F -40F 100% 213 104 3 626 120 128 128 126 136 18 93 7829 4.6 72 -34F
18:02:55 56 4475 36 0.8 14.79 15.01 203F -40F 100% 222 104 3 155 626 128 128 134 128 18 92 7829 4.6 72 -34F
18:02:55 57 4600 36 0.8 15.78 16.02 203F -40F 100% 225 104 3 422 151 128 128 135 136 18 90 7829 4.6 72 -34F
18:02:55 58 4725 34 3.0 14.94 15.23 203F -40F 100% 233 104 3 448 222 128 128 127 136 18 90 8204 4.6 72 -34F
18:02:55 59 4900 34 3.0 16.20 16.33 203F -40F 100% 233 104 3 746 626 128 128 127 128 18 89 8204 4.6 72 -34F
18:02:55 60 4900 34 3.0 15.20 15.47 203F -40F 100% 240 104 3 408 160 128 128 134 136 18 88 8204 4.6 72 -34F
18:02:56 61 4950 34 3.0 15.95 16.19 203F -40F 100% 242 104 3 151 524 128 128 134 129 18 86 8204 4.6 72 -34F
18:02:56 62 4975 34 3.0 15.11 16.54 203F -40F 100% 251 104 3 639 84 128 128 126 137 18 85 8204 4.6 72 -34F
18:02:56 63 5125 34 3.0 16.04 16.53 203F -40F 100% 259 104 3 519 662 128 128 126 130 18 85 8204 4.5 72 -34F
18:02:56 64 5250 34 3.0 15.17 16.37 203F -40F 100% 263 104 3 320 315 128 128 134 138 18 84 8204 4.5 72 -34F
18:02:56 65 5275 35 3.0 15.75 15.43 203F -40F 100% 250 104 3 178 741 128 128 134 130 18 82 8204 4.5 72 -34F
18:02:56 66 5325 35 2.6 15.91 16.19 203F -40F 100% 263 104 3 591 608 128 128 127 130 18 82 8204 4.0 72 -34F
18:02:56 67 5425 36 2.1 15.52 15.03 203F -40F 57% 263 104 3 169 764 128 128 135 129 18 81 8204 2.4 72 -34F
18:02:56 64 5150 37 0.0 8.64 4.78 203F -40F 0% 254 27 3 901 697 126 126 127 128 17 80 8204 0.6 72 -34F
18:02:56 65 4725 37 0.0 3.97 4.07 203F -40F 27% 103 27 3 777 537 122 122 126 128 18 82 8204 1.5 72 -34F
18:02:57 69 4850 35 1.8 12.51 11.66 203F -40F 100% 185 104 3 160 58 128 128 133 135 18 84 8204 4.6 72 -34F
18:02:57 70 4125 35 1.5 17.96 18.75 203F -40F 100% 231 104 3 817 830 128 128 125 127 18 85 8204 4.5 72 -34F
18:02:57 70 4150 35 1.5 15.47 15.30 203F -40F 100% 205 104 3 813 670 128 128 128 126 18 85 8204 4.5 72 -34F
18:02:57 70 4200 35 1.3 15.05 16.07 203F -40F 100% 206 104 3 733 488 128 128 128 126 18 84 8204 4.5 72 -34F
18:02:57 71 4250 35 1.3 14.92 14.77 203F -40F 100% 201 104 3 555 80 128 128 128 134 18 82 8204 4.5 72 -34F
18:02:57 72 4275 34 2.9 15.38 15.59 203F -40F 100% 203 104 3 573 293 128 128 128 135 18 82 8319 4.5 72 -34F
18:02:57 73 4300 34 2.9 14.92 15.87 203F -40F 100% 207 104 3 653 400 128 128 128 135 18 82 8319 4.5 72 -34F
18:02:57 74 4450 34 2.9 14.89 15.75 203F -40F 100% 210 104 3 670 626 128 128 128 127 18 81 8319 4.5 72 -34F
18:02:57 75 4500 34 2.3 15.01 14.86 203F -40F 100% 211 104 3 639 142 128 128 128 135 18 81 8319 4.5 72 -34F
18:02:57 75 4400 34 3.0 14.97 14.83 203F -40F 100% 217 104 3 630 484 128 128 128 135 18 80 8767 4.5 72 -34F
18:02:58 76 4525 34 3.0 15.35 15.82 203F -40F 100% 222 104 3 786 764 128 128 128 127 18 80 8767 4.5 72 -34F
18:02:58 77 4650 34 3.0 15.35 15.18 203F -40F 100% 222 104 3 595 568 128 128 128 127 18 78 9349 4.5 72 -34F
18:02:58 78 4650 34 3.0 15.18 15.96 203F -40F 100% 230 104 3 675 182 128 128 128 134 18 77 9349 4.5 72 -34F
18:02:58 78 4600 34 3.0 15.58 15.38 203F -40F 100% 229 104 3 804 750 128 128 128 126 18 76 9349 4.5 72 -34F
18:02:58 79 4750 34 3.0 14.97 15.00 203F -40F 100% 230 104 3 786 147 128 128 128 133 18 76 9349 4.5 72 -34F
18:02:58 80 4750 34 3.0 15.43 15.15 203F -40F 100% 237 104 3 706 129 128 128 128 133 18 76 9841 4.5 72 -34F
18:02:58 81 4875 34 3.0 15.35 14.95 203F -40F 98% 236 104 3 804 315 128 128 128 133 18 74 11128 3.7 72 -34F
18:02:58 82 4925 34 3.0 15.55 16.14 203F -40F 100% 251 104 3 737 702 128 128 128 125 18 74 11128 4.5 72 -34F
18:02:58 83 4950 34 3.0 15.55 16.24 203F -40F 100% 250 104 3 773 759 128 128 128 125 18 73 11325 4.5 72 -34F
18:02:59 84 4950 34 3.0 15.59 16.30 203F -40F 100% 255 104 3 768 120 128 128 128 133 18 72 11325 4.1 72 -34F
18:02:59 84 4975 34 3.0 15.40 15.99 203F -40F 60% 246 104 3 795 817 128 128 128 125 18 72 11325 2.5 72 -34F
18:02:59 83 4800 37 0.0 6.01 6.21 203F -40F 0% 89 25 3 813 537 125 125 124 124 17 72 11325 0.6 72 -34F
18:02:59 83 4325 37 0.0 4.06 4.24 203F -40F 0% 102 20 3 764 586 121 121 128 128 17 73 11325 0.6 72 -34F
18:02:59 83 3975 37 0.0 4.78 4.70 203F -40F 0% 95 20 3 737 448 117 117 124 128 17 76 11325 0.6 72 -34F
18:02:59 81 3750 37 0.0 4.68 5.39 203F -40F 0% 82 21 3 737 702 112 112 128 128 17 81 11325 0.6 71 -34F
18:02:59 82 3725 36 0.0 4.75 4.90 203F -40F 0% 74 20 3 733 670 108 108 128 128 17 84 11325 0.6 71 -34F
18:02:59 82 3750 37 0.0 4.33 4.38 203F -40F 0% 62 20 3 728 639 108 108 128 128 17 86 11325 0.6 71 -34F
18:02:59 82 3750 36 0.0 4.58 4.64 203F -40F 0% 78 20 3 733 666 108 108 128 128 17 89 11325 0.6 71 -34F
18:03:00 82 3700 36 0.0 4.84 4.75 203F -40F 0% 83 20 3 728 630 108 108 128 128 17 90 11325 0.6 70 -34F
18:03:00 81 3700 36 0.0 4.58 4.61 203F -40F 0% 84 20 3 733 519 108 108 128 128 17 93 11325 0.6 70 -34F
18:03:00 81 3675 25 0.0 4.41 4.64 203F -40F 0% 67 20 3 728 670 108 108 128 128 17 96 11325 0.6 70 -34F
18:03:00 80 3675 11 0.0 0.00 0.00 203F -40F 0% 75 20 3 728 639 108 108 128 128 17 97 11325 0.6 70 -34F
18:03:00 82 3800 33 3.6 12.08 9.69 203F -40F 100% 147 104 3 746 817 128 128 128 128 18 99 11325 4.5 84 -34F
elps.. I need soe advice.. Sorry for the long post.. 0
Administrator
Joined: Nov 1998
Posts: 71,103
From: Hell was full so they sent me to NJ
You might want to save your files in ".csv" format, and upload them to an FTP site, or e-mail them to people, so they can look at them. I don't even see any column labels on the data you posted???
Moderator
Joined: Dec 1969
Posts: 10,745
From: Buffalo, New York
If you want help trouble shooting you need to post a lot more detail. Examples of useful info: when did the car start this behavior (ie what did you do to it just prior), what mods do you have, etc. If the car was running right and now does not, either you f**ked something up or something broke/malfunctioned. This is not likely a tuning problem per se.
From what you posted there is nothing intelligent to say.
Rich Krause
From what you posted there is nothing intelligent to say.
Rich Krause
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 32
From: Dallas, georgia
OK, well let me try this.. The car just started running bad like this one day, It did it before I rebuilt the engine.. I thought maybe it was because I blew two pistons apart Meaning, two dead cylinders.. After the build same problem.. I do not think I had the idle problem then though.. I think thats mostly the cam..But this stumble has just kinda crept in. If the car would throw A check engine light, or anything I would be able to locate the problem easily. I am a mechanic (certified) but the problem I am having is kinda unusual. I am new to programming, and although am a good mechanic, this is kinda where you set the boys from the men, I-E.. Just cause I can work on the beast, dosent mean I understand all the parameters in the computer. I do NOT, I am simply trying to learn.. Reason I asked about open and closed loop is because when the car is in open loop, The trims are perfect. Car Idles great, no hesitation. As soon as it goes into closed loop, it will start hunting up and down, and eventually shut off. I was simply asking what is the difference between the two, Maybe some sensors are relied upon more in closed loop? I am just trying to narrow things down.. I am sure the problem is simple, but seems like I am chasing a needle in a hay-stack. I have no Vac. Leaks,have no fouled plugs, have removed the fmu, am running 36 pounds of fuel pressure at idle, the Iac is in the 30's at idle.. Maf is seeing 34 gps at idle.. no dtc's.. But yet once warm it dosent want to idle, nor come from a dead stop.. You have to feather it..
Here is a list of my mods..
I have 3 in exhaust, no cat, emissions removed (Air pump).. Bbk Headers, 30# injectors,Fmu, with ati dual fuel pump, maf is in front of the of the supercharger intake (Suction side).. I have a 350 bored .030 (355) Forged crank,rods,pistons have 22 cc dish. compression is 8.8-1.. 1.6 crane roller rockers, crane hi-moly push tubes, stock heads, intake, Comp cams, 214-212 510 gross lift cam, but with the 1.6's gross lift is 540.. Engine has the D-1 super-charger @ 8psi, Dual intercoolers.. Msd Ignition, 6a, and hi-output coil..Msd 8.8 plug wires..
Does this help?
Here is a list of my mods..
I have 3 in exhaust, no cat, emissions removed (Air pump).. Bbk Headers, 30# injectors,Fmu, with ati dual fuel pump, maf is in front of the of the supercharger intake (Suction side).. I have a 350 bored .030 (355) Forged crank,rods,pistons have 22 cc dish. compression is 8.8-1.. 1.6 crane roller rockers, crane hi-moly push tubes, stock heads, intake, Comp cams, 214-212 510 gross lift cam, but with the 1.6's gross lift is 540.. Engine has the D-1 super-charger @ 8psi, Dual intercoolers.. Msd Ignition, 6a, and hi-output coil..Msd 8.8 plug wires..
Does this help?
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,277
From: Phoenix, AZ
Here is my small input because I don't understand what is going on. Knowing that, here is my thoughts:
you say your car is running well in open loop. 128 BLM's should be seen in open because they are not utilizing the 02 sensors yet for feedback.
I am trying to remember, but I pretty sure that the only thing that changes in closed loop from open is the fact that the computer uses the O2's to determine correct A/F ratio. Knowing this, I would point initially towards bad 02's or 02 wiring.
How does the car run in PE mode where the 02's are also not being used?
Finally, we assume you have an OBD-1 car because you say "no cat" as compared to "cats". If you have an OBD-II car, you also have the 02's after the cat that I know nothing about.
Keep up informed and if you want, send me another e-mail, but put it in Excel or .csv format. The last format you sent did not work.
Ben
you say your car is running well in open loop. 128 BLM's should be seen in open because they are not utilizing the 02 sensors yet for feedback.
I am trying to remember, but I pretty sure that the only thing that changes in closed loop from open is the fact that the computer uses the O2's to determine correct A/F ratio. Knowing this, I would point initially towards bad 02's or 02 wiring.
How does the car run in PE mode where the 02's are also not being used?
Finally, we assume you have an OBD-1 car because you say "no cat" as compared to "cats". If you have an OBD-II car, you also have the 02's after the cat that I know nothing about.
Keep up informed and if you want, send me another e-mail, but put it in Excel or .csv format. The last format you sent did not work.
Ben
Administrator
Joined: Nov 1998
Posts: 71,103
From: Hell was full so they sent me to NJ
OK..... let's start over again.
What year is your car? This makes a difference, because 93 is not the same as 94/95, is not the same as 96/97. This is BASIC data, and this is the kind of stuff that should be in your signature. It is almost impossible to accurately answer these questions without the basic data like "what year is the car?", is there any aftermarket programming? What are the engine related mods? We shouldn't have to guess the year of your car by whether you said "cat" or "cats".....
Then you need to record and post the data in meaningful form. So far, all we have is a lot of numbers..... we need to know the headings for each column of data..... e.g. BLM-L, BLM-R, ST-L, ST-R.... we can GUESS what each column is, but why should we take guesses when you have the data.... you just need to post it correctly. My suggestion.... save the data (by the way, what scanning software are you using?..... as a ".csv" file, and e-mail it to one of us, or post it on the web on an FTP server.
Not trying to bust your *****...... just trying to help you. But it is impossible to help without the basic information, and without seeing the data in the correct format.
You talk about BLM's in open loop.... which cells? You should see Cell 16 (idle), 17 (low load/decel) and 18 (higher load) in open loop. For each of these, unless you have "cleared" the computer (always a mistake when chasing a problem), you should see variable BLM's for each of these, and the short terms should be locked at 128. If you are seeing 128 for BLM's and ST's, you have cleared the PCM and lost valuable data.
The engine runs essentially the same in open and closed loop. In order to enter closed loop, three things have to happen 1) coolant temp must reach a pre-programmed value in the range of 120-140degF; 2) O2 sensors must reach approx 600degF, as evidenced by the mV's falling from 450mV at cold start to 0xxmV when they reach operating temperature; 3) the timer from startup must time out.. about 2-3 minutes.
Then, the only thing that changes is the PCM starts to accept the feedback values from the O2 sensors, and uses this feedback to alter the BLM's stroed in Cells 00-18, while operating primarily in Cells 00-15, as a function of rpm and MAP. So... it appears your feedback system is screwed up.
You also say at idle, the MAF is reading 34gps. Are you sure? That is not correct. At idle, you should see 6-9gps.
If you can organize your data, and provide us with all the info, we might be able to help...... otherwise we are just spinning our wheels - well, all of us except you....
.
Fred
What year is your car? This makes a difference, because 93 is not the same as 94/95, is not the same as 96/97. This is BASIC data, and this is the kind of stuff that should be in your signature. It is almost impossible to accurately answer these questions without the basic data like "what year is the car?", is there any aftermarket programming? What are the engine related mods? We shouldn't have to guess the year of your car by whether you said "cat" or "cats".....
Then you need to record and post the data in meaningful form. So far, all we have is a lot of numbers..... we need to know the headings for each column of data..... e.g. BLM-L, BLM-R, ST-L, ST-R.... we can GUESS what each column is, but why should we take guesses when you have the data.... you just need to post it correctly. My suggestion.... save the data (by the way, what scanning software are you using?..... as a ".csv" file, and e-mail it to one of us, or post it on the web on an FTP server.
Not trying to bust your *****...... just trying to help you. But it is impossible to help without the basic information, and without seeing the data in the correct format.
You talk about BLM's in open loop.... which cells? You should see Cell 16 (idle), 17 (low load/decel) and 18 (higher load) in open loop. For each of these, unless you have "cleared" the computer (always a mistake when chasing a problem), you should see variable BLM's for each of these, and the short terms should be locked at 128. If you are seeing 128 for BLM's and ST's, you have cleared the PCM and lost valuable data.
The engine runs essentially the same in open and closed loop. In order to enter closed loop, three things have to happen 1) coolant temp must reach a pre-programmed value in the range of 120-140degF; 2) O2 sensors must reach approx 600degF, as evidenced by the mV's falling from 450mV at cold start to 0xxmV when they reach operating temperature; 3) the timer from startup must time out.. about 2-3 minutes.
Then, the only thing that changes is the PCM starts to accept the feedback values from the O2 sensors, and uses this feedback to alter the BLM's stroed in Cells 00-18, while operating primarily in Cells 00-15, as a function of rpm and MAP. So... it appears your feedback system is screwed up.
You also say at idle, the MAF is reading 34gps. Are you sure? That is not correct. At idle, you should see 6-9gps.
If you can organize your data, and provide us with all the info, we might be able to help...... otherwise we are just spinning our wheels - well, all of us except you....
.Fred
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 32
From: Dallas, georgia
Thank you guys for your input, Yes the car is a 95.. I will try to get you some better data tonight when I get home.. Yes the car runs good at 128 but as soon as it starts reading the o2's I assume it starts running horribly, Yes I have lt1 edit.. Have changed a few things.. Yes at idle the car reads 34gps and goes up to 60gps upon wot, maybe this is a problem.. When reading in real time on pc-comm.. Thats what it says from the maf.. I will try to do better for the info.. Once again, I appreciate the help.. Oh and just fir sheats and giggles, All I do is spin wheels.. eheheheh
Registered User
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 1,081
From: Charleston, WV, U.S.
If you don't have a bypass valve that could be contributing to the problem. My tuner couldn't keep my car from overheating the exhaust at low load in closed loop due to the air charge being heated so much at low load as well as the O2's "hunting around" so much in closed loop and adding too much fuel. It was actually running rich because so much air was getting past the throttle blades due to lack of a bypass valve that the O2's thought they were reading "extra" air and adding too much fuel in integration (closed loop), heating up the headers till my coating was cooking off. It doesn't make sense to me becuase the MAF still measured the proper amount of air regardless. None the less when the bypass valve was installed it helped considerably. Of course, it reduced air intake temps too which may have helped some. Anyway.......I think he pretty much tricked the ECM to stay in closed loop during low load cruise because it stays steady at about 890 ~ 920 mv's during cruise rather than searching around so wildly from 200 ~ 950 like before. He said he raised the temperature setting to accomplish this but it's still actually in "closed loop".....I don't know about that, seems like it's really in open loop to me as my BLM's are 128 on both sides in the cruise cell. Despite that it still gets great MPG on the 12.9:1 cruise A/F that he got out of it by doing this. I mostly posted because you might want to try that if you just want to give up on closed loop. I notice it still integrates (searches) at idle with the o2's going from 100 ~ 850 ....so either the temp goes up high enough at idle or he didn't reset the temperature in that cell.....not sure, but seems like it's really in closed loop at idle....it's still a wide search but it's much slower, not up and down so fast. Anyway, try tricking it to stay in open loop by raising the temperature setting with LT1 Edit or Tunercat and see if the problem completely goes away. If it does there could be a problem with your O2 sensors or in the fact that you don't have a bypass valve (if you don't have one that is....."not enough info" again...lol).
"Injuneer" ....I have some questions about this:
"You talk about BLM's in open loop.... which cells? You should see Cell 16 (idle), 17 (low load/decel) and 18 (higher load) in open loop. For each of these, unless you have "cleared" the computer (always a mistake when chasing a problem), you should see variable BLM's for each of these, and the short terms should be locked at 128. If you are seeing 128 for BLM's and ST's, you have cleared the PCM and lost valuable data."
Which are which on the Scanmaster (short and long term)? "Integrator" or "block learns" ? I think mine said "BLM 128" in cell 17 and the integrator said the same (I think, anyway) .....would that mean I'm really in open loop? My O2's go from about 880 ~ 920 while cruising. He said he raised the temp setting so didn't he basically take it out of closed loop? Why does everyone call block learns "BLM's" anyway? Perhaps it's just as well that I'm in closed loop......I've got fantastic MPG on the interstate where it stays at 880-920 mv's. Could it be that even if it runs a little rich it will still get better mileage than it would via searching around like mad "trying" to maintain a stoich A/F? According to the tuner that's what was happening......computer just adding too much fuel during integration. Unless I've misunderstood something but I don't think so......looks like he rigged me to stay in open loop during cruise but it works great anyway.
"Injuneer" ....I have some questions about this:
"You talk about BLM's in open loop.... which cells? You should see Cell 16 (idle), 17 (low load/decel) and 18 (higher load) in open loop. For each of these, unless you have "cleared" the computer (always a mistake when chasing a problem), you should see variable BLM's for each of these, and the short terms should be locked at 128. If you are seeing 128 for BLM's and ST's, you have cleared the PCM and lost valuable data."
Which are which on the Scanmaster (short and long term)? "Integrator" or "block learns" ? I think mine said "BLM 128" in cell 17 and the integrator said the same (I think, anyway) .....would that mean I'm really in open loop? My O2's go from about 880 ~ 920 while cruising. He said he raised the temp setting so didn't he basically take it out of closed loop? Why does everyone call block learns "BLM's" anyway? Perhaps it's just as well that I'm in closed loop......I've got fantastic MPG on the interstate where it stays at 880-920 mv's. Could it be that even if it runs a little rich it will still get better mileage than it would via searching around like mad "trying" to maintain a stoich A/F? According to the tuner that's what was happening......computer just adding too much fuel during integration. Unless I've misunderstood something but I don't think so......looks like he rigged me to stay in open loop during cruise but it works great anyway.
Last edited by canbaufo; Nov 11, 2002 at 07:06 PM.
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 32
From: Dallas, georgia
Well I have never seen a blm, I guess maybe I am clearing them out? I keep hearing people speak of them.. I am using lt1 edit. How do you know if you have cleared them out? Yes I am useing a bypass valve..
Administrator
Joined: Nov 1998
Posts: 71,103
From: Hell was full so they sent me to NJ
Which are which on the Scanmaster (short and long term)? "Integrator" or "block learns" ? I think mine said "BLM 128" in cell 17 and the integrator said the same (I think, anyway) .....would that mean I'm really in open loop? My O2's go from about 880 ~ 920 while cruising. He said he raised the temp setting so didn't he basically take it out of closed loop? Why does everyone call block learns "BLM's" anyway? Perhaps it's just as well that I'm in closed loop......I've got fantastic MPG on the interstate where it stays at 880-920 mv's. Could it be that even if it runs a little rich it will still get better mileage than it would via searching around like mad "trying" to maintain a stoich A/F? According to the tuner that's what was happening......computer just adding too much fuel during integration. Unless I've misunderstood something but I don't think so......looks like he rigged me to stay in open loop during cruise but it works great anyway.
SCANNER WRITEUP
BLM = Block learn multiplier. It is called this, I would assume because the data is stored in "blocks".... a grid of RPM and MAP, and because the resulting number is used as a "multiplier" in the pulse width calcualtion.
Another name for BLM is "long term fuel correction". These are the only fuel corrections that are "stored" in the PCM. The PCM uses "short term fuel corrections" first. These are also called "integrators" or "INT". The PCM looks for the short term fuel corrections to vary uniformly on either side of 128. If the PCM sees that the INT is always below 128, it will put a number higher than 128 in the corresponding BLM storage register. That should be enough to bring the INT's back so they vary uniformly on either side of 128. It the INT's don't vary uniformly, it keeps adjusting the BLM's until the INT's do vary on either side of 128, and average out to 128 over a large number of readings.
Essentially, pulse width (PW) is adjusted to reflect the BLM's. The pulse width is calculated as a function of the air flowing thorugh the MAF (94+), the target A/F ratio, and the assumption that the "multiplier" is "1". To get the multiplier, it puts the BLM over 128. 128/128 = 1. If the PCM needs to add 4% more fuel, it moves the BLM up to 133, and the multiplier becomes 133/128 = 1.04.
It sounds like your engine is running in open loop, and running excessively rich if you see those kind of O2 mV's at "cruise". That will waste fuel, foul the plugs, and wash the lubrication off the cylinder walls...... not good.
If he raised the "closed loop enable" temp above what your cooling system runs at, it will stay in open loop, and you will only see cells 16, 17 and 18. And the INT's (short term corrections) will stay locked at 128. If it never enters "closed loop", it will never be able to develop BLM's, since it never gets any feedback from the O2 sensors.
Yes at idle the car reads 34gps and goes up to 60gps upon wot, maybe this is a problem..
If your MAF readings are way to high, it would explain why the BLM's are at 108, and why the car would stumble badly coming off idle. Try substituting an MAF sensor that you know is good. May solve all your problems.
Have you checked for DTC codes? You should be getting codes for the MAF if those are the numbers you are seeing.
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 32
From: Dallas, georgia
I have no dtc's other than low oil temp.. That one still kinda confuses me.. Yeah my readings are 28gps-30gps at idle.. I was wondering why so hi.. But I figured the charger was doing it.. Should I try another maf? I dont have one handy, but I need an aftermarket one anyway...
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