EASY MegaSquirtII install? 9 wires. . .
11-19-2006, 12:43 PM
#1
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EASY MegaSquirtII install? 9 wires. . .
I've been looking into aftermarket ECM's and I'm just not willing to spend $2500. I started looking at MSII and was surprised to find some of the new features, such as WBO2 A/F ratio closed loop at full throttle, 2 bar map included, etc. . . and all for $400 assembled.
Since the factory computer contols the security, ABS, some HVAC, fuel pump, fans, and gauges, most people elect to run it in parallel with an aftermarket ECM. I was thinking that I could also let the stock ECM continue to control the ignition timing because a) knock sensing capabilities work well, and b) the opti pickup signals don't work well with MSII. To hook it up as described would require the following wiring:
GROUND: Ground wires 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, and 15 from the MSII.
POWER: Tie wire 28 from the MSII into wire B15 off the stock ECM.
BANK 1 INJECTORS: Cut wires A3, A6, A20, and A21 off the stock ECM and connect all together and to pins 34 and 35 on the MSII.
BANK 2 INJECTORS: Cut wires A4, A5, A19, AND A22 off the stock ECM and connect all together and to pins 32 and 33 on the MSII.
IAT: Tie wire 20 from the MSII into wire C21 off the stock ECM. Perform internal resister-mod on MSII for tapping into powered thermistors.
COOLANT TEMP: Tie wire 21 from the MSII into wire C25 off the stock ECM. Perform internal resister-mod on MSII for tapping into powered thermistors.
O2 SENSORS: Attach the signal wire from a wideband to wire 23 on the MSII.
TPS: Tie wire 22 from the MSII into wire C22 off the stock ECM.
RPM: Tie wire 24 from the MSII into wire A13 off the stock ECM.
This only requires that you cut the 8 injector signal wires and just strip and solder to the others. Then, you have full wide-band closed-loop tuning at full throttle, 2.5 bar speed density, real-time tuning, and retain all stock ECM functions all for $400 and not more than a couple of hours of wiring.
Thoughts?
Mike
Since the factory computer contols the security, ABS, some HVAC, fuel pump, fans, and gauges, most people elect to run it in parallel with an aftermarket ECM. I was thinking that I could also let the stock ECM continue to control the ignition timing because a) knock sensing capabilities work well, and b) the opti pickup signals don't work well with MSII. To hook it up as described would require the following wiring:
GROUND: Ground wires 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, and 15 from the MSII.
POWER: Tie wire 28 from the MSII into wire B15 off the stock ECM.
BANK 1 INJECTORS: Cut wires A3, A6, A20, and A21 off the stock ECM and connect all together and to pins 34 and 35 on the MSII.
BANK 2 INJECTORS: Cut wires A4, A5, A19, AND A22 off the stock ECM and connect all together and to pins 32 and 33 on the MSII.
IAT: Tie wire 20 from the MSII into wire C21 off the stock ECM. Perform internal resister-mod on MSII for tapping into powered thermistors.
COOLANT TEMP: Tie wire 21 from the MSII into wire C25 off the stock ECM. Perform internal resister-mod on MSII for tapping into powered thermistors.
O2 SENSORS: Attach the signal wire from a wideband to wire 23 on the MSII.
TPS: Tie wire 22 from the MSII into wire C22 off the stock ECM.
RPM: Tie wire 24 from the MSII into wire A13 off the stock ECM.
This only requires that you cut the 8 injector signal wires and just strip and solder to the others. Then, you have full wide-band closed-loop tuning at full throttle, 2.5 bar speed density, real-time tuning, and retain all stock ECM functions all for $400 and not more than a couple of hours of wiring.
Thoughts?
Mike
Last edited by engineermike; 11-19-2006 at 12:47 PM.
11-19-2006, 10:12 PM
#4
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Location: Kansas
Posts: 3,517
A couple of guys are actually using the MS system on this board... and I am pretty sure they have the spark controller too.
I had plans of doing this install just to see it in action on a car that doesnt necessarily need it. But money and time constraints right now prevent me from attempting to run my LT1 with a homebuilt ECM.
But the coolest thing about these systems is the people envovled. You have some of the most genius minds I have seen on a net so far writing code for all kinds of applications as well as developing ways to basically run whatever setup you can dreamup. Spend some time reading the forum and youll be amazed at the wealth of information and its ALL FREE! All the programs are free as well so you just download what you need and even have the ability to tailor them to your application. So again its a time consuming project but you have the potential to learn so much where FAST or other systems are simply plug and play... obviously you pay for the R&D and convenience.
I had plans of doing this install just to see it in action on a car that doesnt necessarily need it. But money and time constraints right now prevent me from attempting to run my LT1 with a homebuilt ECM.
But the coolest thing about these systems is the people envovled. You have some of the most genius minds I have seen on a net so far writing code for all kinds of applications as well as developing ways to basically run whatever setup you can dreamup. Spend some time reading the forum and youll be amazed at the wealth of information and its ALL FREE! All the programs are free as well so you just download what you need and even have the ability to tailor them to your application. So again its a time consuming project but you have the potential to learn so much where FAST or other systems are simply plug and play... obviously you pay for the R&D and convenience.
11-19-2006, 10:37 PM
#5
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Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Baton Rouge, LA, USA
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A couple of guys are actually using the MS system on this board... and I am pretty sure they have the spark controller too.
. . . So again its a time consuming project but you have the potential to learn so much where FAST or other systems are simply plug and play... obviously you pay for the R&D and convenience.
. . . So again its a time consuming project but you have the potential to learn so much where FAST or other systems are simply plug and play... obviously you pay for the R&D and convenience.
I may be overlooking alot of stuff, but with the companies offering fully assembled MSII's for $400 and current version of Megatune, I don't see where this is any more complex and hard to install than the FAST and DFI.
Mike
11-21-2006, 08:35 PM
#6
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Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: West Plains, MO
Posts: 109
I've never had Megasqurit on a LT1, but these I have:
Vortec 8100
Vortec 6.0L
LS1
TPI 305
Vortec 5.3L
I have run Megasquirt, Megasquirt II, distributor, as well as coil pack ignition systems with MS. very easy, if you can assemble it your self you can get into the latest MS-II for $250.
Vortec 8100
Vortec 6.0L
LS1
TPI 305
Vortec 5.3L
I have run Megasquirt, Megasquirt II, distributor, as well as coil pack ignition systems with MS. very easy, if you can assemble it your self you can get into the latest MS-II for $250.
11-22-2006, 12:40 AM
#7
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Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: NASHVILLE, TN
Posts: 393
I've been reading about this too. Can it do WOT wideband closed loop???
If so, that might be what I try. There is so much stuff to read on there I get overwhelmed. I thought I might could at least do the fuel with Megasquirt and let the factory PCM and LTCC do the ignition and coil packs.
Megasquirt says maybe something to run coil packs mid-next year.
If so, that might be what I try. There is so much stuff to read on there I get overwhelmed. I thought I might could at least do the fuel with Megasquirt and let the factory PCM and LTCC do the ignition and coil packs.
Megasquirt says maybe something to run coil packs mid-next year.
11-22-2006, 06:13 AM
#8
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11-22-2006, 10:52 AM
#9
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Location: West Plains, MO
Posts: 109
There are a few different ways to achive coil pack ignition.
I have always used the FORD EDIS ignition module, with an external mounted 36-1 tooth wheel. This used GM DIS (two post) coil packs, and fired ignition in wasted spark mode.
MS Extra code, can drive up to 6 ignition channels. This would mean that on an LS1, you could run all 8 coil packs, in a wasted spark fashion.
http://www.msextra.com/manuals/MS_Ex...ual.htm#2coils
With this, you could mount an external 36-1 wheel on your LT1, (look at pictures here on my 6.0L) LS1 coils on a LT1 would be sweet.
http://www.lt1swap.com/vortec6l.htm
I have always used the FORD EDIS ignition module, with an external mounted 36-1 tooth wheel. This used GM DIS (two post) coil packs, and fired ignition in wasted spark mode.
MS Extra code, can drive up to 6 ignition channels. This would mean that on an LS1, you could run all 8 coil packs, in a wasted spark fashion.
http://www.msextra.com/manuals/MS_Ex...ual.htm#2coils
With this, you could mount an external 36-1 wheel on your LT1, (look at pictures here on my 6.0L) LS1 coils on a LT1 would be sweet.
http://www.lt1swap.com/vortec6l.htm
11-22-2006, 09:42 PM
#11
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Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: West Plains, MO
Posts: 109
36-1 wheel
1990+ 4.6L ford (mustang, crown vic, etc)
I got it at ford dealership parts department, $28.00 its called an Ignition Pulsator Ring. The first time they looked for it they had a hard time finding it because I didn't know what the ford parts programm called it.
The Crank sensor is for a 1990 Ford Escort with a 1.9L, $15 at Autozone. The sensor for the escort has two tabs on the side, that make it easy to mount to a bracket. The sensor for the 4.6L is round and goes in through the timing cover. - hard to mount to bracket.
Here is what makes the EDIS ignition so easy to use.
It comes in 4, 6, and 8 cylinder versions. all use the 36-1 wheel. Some have the wheel inside timing cover like the 4.6L, others like the 4.0L ford have it pressed on back of the main pulley. I think I've seen a 5.0L ford engine that had it cast into part of the harmonic ballancer. Many options. Some even make their own.
The ignition module will work entirely on its own, with out any outside module commanding it. This serves as a limp home mode. The module will fire ignition locked at 10 degree advanced.
There is a single control wire. Depending on the signal sent to the EDIS module, will affect the timing the module provides. Unlike GM ignitions, the signal IN to the module is not timed to when spark is needed. A constant signal at a certain frequency will yeild 25 degrees advance, as long as the frequency remains the same, the module will provide the same advance.
On GM ignitions, the ignition module sends a reference pulse to the ECM. the ECM then caculates the time untill the engine is at the desired advance, at which time the ECM sends a signal to the module to FIRE at that time. This is an TIME based ignition. Under extreme engine accelration, timing can be off a few degrees.
EDIS is ANGLE based, no matter how fast the engine accelrates, timing will remain constant. LT1's OPTI-Spark are a ANGLE based ignition. This is what the HIGH resolution signal is used for. Thats why when the LT1 looses the HIGH resolution signal from the optispark, it will still run. The computer switches to TIME based ignition, using only the LOW resolution signal.
1990+ 4.6L ford (mustang, crown vic, etc)
I got it at ford dealership parts department, $28.00 its called an Ignition Pulsator Ring. The first time they looked for it they had a hard time finding it because I didn't know what the ford parts programm called it.
The Crank sensor is for a 1990 Ford Escort with a 1.9L, $15 at Autozone. The sensor for the escort has two tabs on the side, that make it easy to mount to a bracket. The sensor for the 4.6L is round and goes in through the timing cover. - hard to mount to bracket.
Here is what makes the EDIS ignition so easy to use.
It comes in 4, 6, and 8 cylinder versions. all use the 36-1 wheel. Some have the wheel inside timing cover like the 4.6L, others like the 4.0L ford have it pressed on back of the main pulley. I think I've seen a 5.0L ford engine that had it cast into part of the harmonic ballancer. Many options. Some even make their own.
The ignition module will work entirely on its own, with out any outside module commanding it. This serves as a limp home mode. The module will fire ignition locked at 10 degree advanced.
There is a single control wire. Depending on the signal sent to the EDIS module, will affect the timing the module provides. Unlike GM ignitions, the signal IN to the module is not timed to when spark is needed. A constant signal at a certain frequency will yeild 25 degrees advance, as long as the frequency remains the same, the module will provide the same advance.
On GM ignitions, the ignition module sends a reference pulse to the ECM. the ECM then caculates the time untill the engine is at the desired advance, at which time the ECM sends a signal to the module to FIRE at that time. This is an TIME based ignition. Under extreme engine accelration, timing can be off a few degrees.
EDIS is ANGLE based, no matter how fast the engine accelrates, timing will remain constant. LT1's OPTI-Spark are a ANGLE based ignition. This is what the HIGH resolution signal is used for. Thats why when the LT1 looses the HIGH resolution signal from the optispark, it will still run. The computer switches to TIME based ignition, using only the LOW resolution signal.
11-23-2006, 06:58 PM
#13
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11-29-2006, 10:58 AM
#14
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Location: Bridgewater, MA
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So it will be able to run BOTH closed loop (NB O2 sensor) and WOT (WB O2 sensor with feedback)? I keep seeing mention of closed loop WOT (which I guess you mean WOT with feedback adjustments). Just wanted to know if a NB O2 is still used for part throttle applications. I need to pass the sniffer, so part throttle tuning will be crucial.
Jon
Jon
11-29-2006, 11:04 AM
#15
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Nope, it does away with the NBO2 totally if you have a WBO2. You fill out a chart in MS saying what A/F ratio you want at different MAP and RPM. Just like the VE table, but it's A/F ratio instead. You can tell it to shoot for 15/1 at cruise, 12/1 at idle, and 12.5/1 at WOT if you like. MS will actually correct the VE table for you based on the WBO2 readings if it's off. You can also run it with 1 or 2 WBO2's (right and left bank).