Actually, I think ford said that they will only make these cars for 3 years. (note that they said that up front, so don't call it a failure when they stop building them )

 

As a car enthusiast, I'd hate to see DC pounded completely into dust. I WANT A BIG THREE AGAIN.

This is my dream scenario...(please humor me).

1) Diamler can't figure out how to make Chrysler work in the US, and becomes weary of bleeding red ink.

2) Diamler decides to spin off Chrysler quickly...before it brings the parent company down with it.

3) Kerkorian (and...oh what the heck....Lee Iococca too), get enough investors and raise enough cash to BUY BACK Chrysler.

4) Chrysler merges with Mitsubishi.

5) A strategic alliance is formed with BMW at the top and Hyundai at the bottom....strengthening all these companies.

6) Plymouth is reinstated.

7) Plymouth releases the 2010 HEMI 'Cuda.

 

Which in this perfect world of yours still gets it's @$$ handed to it by the 2010 Z28, of course.

By the way, the Cherokee was replaced by the Liberty.

 

Since this is now a phantasy thread......Ill add....

Crysler adds to the jeep dealers line Eagle and AMC again. Jeep/eagle/AMC make a return to the performance market with a modern "dog leg 401" in a new Javlyn, AMX and Rebel to go head to head with the next Mustang, Camaro, GTO, Cuda, Charger, CTSv and CTCv.

 

It might be close.

The 'Cuda would have the 6.1L version of the HEMI and be available with the road race AAR package. The 2010 Z/28 of course, will always edge it out......as it is the segment benchmark.

 

if chysler was to be run into the ground and sold off...here is the question..

could Lee I or some investors bring the AMC name back??? or does D/C own that too???

would be cool though!!

 

1.) People are not going to leave BMW in droves. Get real. Out of all the luxurey car makers in the world, I believe that they have the best lineup with Audi at #2. The new 5 series, is going to sell big. That car is friggin awesome.
It's not about the size of the company, it's about how resourceful they are with their money. BMW may not be as big as GM, but they are more efficient spenders.

2.) You get what you pay for.

3.) I give you that.

4.) BMW is not going to screw up. Yes, the 1 series maybe a bad idea in the long run, but it'll sell because its a bimmer.

5.) I'll give you that one two.

 

It's ok to be upset, but let's not get carried away. German != ****.

 

http://www.detnews.com/2003/insiders...c01-285896.htm


An interesting line from that story:

"OK. But such decisive moves -- and the perception that Zetsche is less prominent in the community than he used to be, witness Monday's head-of-state dinner at the U.S.-Arab Economic Forum -- can be interpreted another way. They also can be a prelude to an end game that might conclude with Chrysler's dismemberment or sale to the highest bidder."

 

I've believed this has been Mercedes endgame since they came to the realization that they simply couldn't run Chrysler with next to no investment, and was faced with reversing themselves. Even Ron Zarella would have reacted better in bringing Chrysler back, and he never had a automotive background till he headed GM!

Personally, I think Chrysler will be either sold or will follow the same path of Chrysler Australia within 3 years. Mercedes quality rating is now worse than Cadillac, BMW is more stable, and taking serious bites out of them, and Chrysler hasn't had a serious infusion of product since the the late 90s. Better motives don't exist.

When Chrysler went under in Australia in the 70s, it simply became Mitsubishi and began selling cars under that name. Local products (including the worlds fastest accelerating 6 cylinder....it was a straight 6 HEMI engine! ) were discontinued, and eventially cars like the Mitsu Magna (Diamante here... yes it's made down under) are produced instead of Chrysler.

If Daimler decided tomorrow to cut Chrysler in favor of expanding Mitsubishi, at least in theory they could.

Consider:
*They already have minimal investment in it
*Last I heard they were sitting on final product approvals
*I'm guessing all UAW contracts are to produce Chryslers and probally have a F body-like clause on sales related closures specific to that brand
*All future front drive Chryslers are based on Mitsubishis.

Change the Dodge Viper & Ram Truck to the Mitsubishi Ram and the Mitsubishi Viper, sell the Chrysler 300 (the nose fits on the upcomming Dodge Magnum wagon) as a Mitsubishi 300 to compete with Toyota, Honda and Nissan's entries (sold as Lexus, Acura & Infinity here), and the Dodge version as a more "American" car to compete with Crown Vic and the new Caprice and that about covers it.

Daimler has a model for every market, bypasses a 25% truck tariff, has a RWD luxury car priced and aimed at a Lexus level, shed the huge headache of needing to actually creating new Chrysler products, and finally all those years of shedding jobs to the point where the remaining skeleton crew enables them to finally finish Chrysler as a independent company (or in this case, division) without throwing tens of thousands of people out of work at one time and creating a big stink with us here in the US.

Sounds so true and possible it's scary isn't it?

 

BMW has a loyal group of customers, though, and I think their smaller mass is much less of an issue than you make of it. Honda's much smaller than GM, Ford, DCX, or Toyota, and yet I don't see them worrying too much.

They've got a foothold in the US, though.

By far and away the biggest concern, IMO. The dollar ain't done with its slide yet.

I don't know where they're at with regards to cash at this exact moment, but they've historically kept a lot of it on hand. Plus, they don't tend to screw things up.

VW? Ha! They own a lot of nameplates and sell a lot of cars, but that's about it. They're the European Ford.

Where does Hyundai fit into your plan? Don't forget that they do a hell of a lot more than just cars, so their mass is a bit larger than it may appear. How about DCX? And I'd like to know how you see Honda's demise occuring.

 

I think personally that BMW's core demographic is the most disloyal group of customers. Late 30's to middle age, fairly well off, and concerned more about image than content.

The next "image" machine comes down the pipe in the US, and they get hurt bad.

Furthermore, look at the simple economies of scale. GM provides BMW automatic transmissions because BMW can't afford to develop them. GM can, and does... do you think NAO pays Powertrain more or less than BMW for the same 5L40E transmission? The answer there is an easy one...

GM, at times, CHOOSES not to produce powertrains, but not because of reserves. Examine a component like automatic transmissions for a second...

GM amoritizes the tooling for the 4l60/65E over a large part of the GMT-800 line, Trailblazer/Envoy/Ranier, the CTSv, Corvette, the Holden cars, SSR... ad infinitum. That's serious volume.... 2,000,000? 2,500,000? 4L60/65E equipped GMT-800's probably outsell BMW worldwide on their own.



Oh yes they do...

Grenading M3 motors?
5-series electrical problems?
JD Powers has been laying the hurt on them for a few years now.



Actually, they are the European GM. They outsell everyone else in Europe. Audi is a pretty strong marketing group with good cars.



They don't. They'll be acquired as the market begins to toughen on them. Good fit with VW.



They'll revert to what they know, or suffer badly. DCX has consistently proven that they can't make money selling inexpensive cars. My opinion is that GM will acquire Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep, close the passenger cars out, fold the Jeep/Truck unit into NAO truck and go on with their day - putting everyone else under crushing pressure in the truck market. My guess is that Ford would buckle under at that point.



A continuing collapse of the Japanese economy and domestic market, coupled with the yen beginning to rise against the dollar and a limited scope within the market that is under considerable pressure - particularly in Asia and via Toyota and a resurgent GM in North America.

Artificially propping the yen against the dollar is merely delaying the agony - and making it worse in the long run.

 

Pacer you need to get those GM colored contacts outta yer eyes before they fuse in permanently. Seriously.

Toyota, Honda and Fiat(Nissan) are demolishing the U.S. passenger car domestics. End of story. They actually make money on each car they sell. The kind of money GM makes on trucks. No need for 0% or 3000 cash back. And they do it because of product. They make better cars for less. They have NOTHING to fear from GM and Ford's rental fleet special lineup.

BMW is doing the same thing on the luxury performance front. They havn't done a thing wrong in the past 10 years. And don't believe the 1 series waters down anything. It simply makes U.S. dealerships like those around the rest of the world, where you can buy a 20K car or a 120K car.

It's GM's and Ford's cash cow that on the chopping block. TRUCKS The Japs are going to walk right over to the Big3 truck table and take their handful right out. Maybe not with the Tundra and Titan. But they'll get it right sooner probably than later. Then it's same story of the car market of the 80s all over again. Ford just did what it had to to survive. Which is make the best fullsize truck in the world, development costs be damned. We'll see if GM and Dodge can do the same thing when their turn comes. First who fails gets chewed up bad.

Reminds me of a story about 2 hunters. One was wearing track shoes. The other says "why bother, you ain't gonna outrun a bear."

The first hunter says back, "I don't have to outrun the bear. I just gotta outrun you."

Guess who the bear is.

 

I honestly don't see a reasoned or insightful thought in your whole post.

The Japanese don't have a living prayer, Titan or not, of taking any meaningful part of the truck market.

 

you mean Renalt-Nissan... Fiat is on peglegs which are about to snap like twigs in the winter.

and all this talk of Mitsu taking over as Chrysler, Mitsu is in deep deep doodoo as well if you remember that they're drowning in debt over an increasing number of defaults on their 0% financing from a few years back. they parctically gave away their own cars for free. come to think of it, that sounds a lot like GM in another year or two.

but the more i think about it, the more it looks to me like DC as a whole is in a lot of trouble. those smug/arrogant bastards are now paying for their arrogance. they seriously didn't see the **** when they stepped into it in their italian designer slippers.