You won't need much more proof than this that Chrysler is being run into the ground.
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From: South Jersey
Originally posted by morb|d
i agree, this IS criminal. there should be a law suite filed against the company on behalf of all the Chrysler shareholders. there is definite neglegence here and being a public company it should be held accountable. i wouldn't mind seeing "Shrimp" or whatever his friz face is called stripped of his earnings and put in jail for 5-10 years.
i agree, this IS criminal. there should be a law suite filed against the company on behalf of all the Chrysler shareholders. there is definite neglegence here and being a public company it should be held accountable. i wouldn't mind seeing "Shrimp" or whatever his friz face is called stripped of his earnings and put in jail for 5-10 years.
BTW, the biggest sign for me that they let things go is the Grand Cherokee. That hasn't been updated in how long? It used to be THE sport utility.
Last edited by WERM; Sep 29, 2003 at 07:08 PM.
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From: Sterling Heights, MI
Re: You won't need much more proof than this that Chrysler is being run into the ground.
Originally posted by guionM
the overpriced Pacifica (perfect example of a really good vehicle being priced too high) is not selling well, forcing DC to create a "stripper" model, still in the upper 20s...
the overpriced Pacifica (perfect example of a really good vehicle being priced too high) is not selling well, forcing DC to create a "stripper" model, still in the upper 20s...
What loyal Chrysler guy can swallow $40,000 for their offerings? They really overestimated Chrysler's ability to jump into the (near)luxury fray. If you can't keep your loyal customers because your prices leave them behind and you can't pick up new ones because no one wants the "imitation Benz" where does that leave you?
My parents have been loyal Chrysler people for what seems like forever. In fact, they have owned a Chrysler minivan since the very first in '84. It is their first and only choice in family transportation which is a shame because I really think they're missing out. Notable quality glitches are pushing them to the brink of going elsewhere for their next large car. I'm trying to push dad into a GTO to help him relive the days of his 'Cuda but we'll see about that.
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I remeber seeing the concept cars leading up to Pacifica. They really reminded me of what a modern Nomad should be. Lots of power and utility and style.
Chrysler deserves better than this. At the very least though Diamler has the assets to help sustain it till the product line can be revived.
Chrysler deserves better than this. At the very least though Diamler has the assets to help sustain it till the product line can be revived.
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From: New England
but they get rid of Olds why would they get Dodge?? both seam the same target market to me..besides the Viper andSRT stuff..it really reminded me of the same car company..Dodge and Olds..
but the Jeep in the Hummer line..that might be the one thing to look for
where would Viper go??
but the Jeep in the Hummer line..that might be the one thing to look for
where would Viper go??
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From: New England
but they get rid of Olds why would they get Dodge?? both seam the same target market to me..besides the Viper andSRT stuff..it really reminded me of the same car company..Dodge and Olds..
but the Jeep in the Hummer line..that might be the one thing to look for
where would Viper go??
but the Jeep in the Hummer line..that might be the one thing to look for
where would Viper go??
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Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,748
From: New England
but they get rid of Olds why would they get Dodge?? both seam the same target market to me..besides the Viper andSRT stuff..it really reminded me of the same car company..Dodge and Olds..
but the Jeep in the Hummer line..that might be the one thing to look for
where would Viper go??
but the Jeep in the Hummer line..that might be the one thing to look for
where would Viper go??
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Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 2,072
From: Lilburn, GA, USA
Dodge is like Chrysler's Chevrolet and Chrysler is like GM's Oldsmobile. I really hope Chrystler doesn't go under, that would be such a shame. I knew there would be trouble the minute I heard that Benz bought out Chrysler even though everyone was saying how this would be thier savior and the Germans will really turn things around....................yeah.............let's see it?????????
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Originally posted by guionM
I understand and agree with you PacerX, but last year Mercedes' CEO Jurgen Schremmp actually admitted in an interview that their purpose was takeing over Chrysler (vs a merger of equals), and their prime goal was to get ahold of Jeep!
I understand and agree with you PacerX, but last year Mercedes' CEO Jurgen Schremmp actually admitted in an interview that their purpose was takeing over Chrysler (vs a merger of equals), and their prime goal was to get ahold of Jeep!
Want to know who bought who in a takeover? Look at who the CEO is at the end of the day.
Originally posted by guionM
With that as a backdrop, it's obvious that DCX had no intention of doing anything with Chrysler outside of sucking it's profits without any real investment, raiding it's cash reserves (in the late 90s Chrysler had massive cash reserves for as small as it was), and converting it to not much more than a profitable distributor for rental cars & Mitsubishis.
With that as a backdrop, it's obvious that DCX had no intention of doing anything with Chrysler outside of sucking it's profits without any real investment, raiding it's cash reserves (in the late 90s Chrysler had massive cash reserves for as small as it was), and converting it to not much more than a profitable distributor for rental cars & Mitsubishis.
They don't understand this market, never have, don't even want to try.
Originally posted by guionM
Sure, GM is using it's muscle to squeeze everyone else out.
Sure, GM is using it's muscle to squeeze everyone else out.
Watch BMW in the next 10 years, because my humble prediction is that they or Ford are put in the hurt locker next.
Originally posted by guionM
But both it's competitors have been weakened by their own hand as well. Ford with a series of bad introductions, and major recalls primarily due to excess penny pinching, and Chrysler because Daimler Benz sucked it dry of cash & product till it absolutely had to spend money on it.
But both it's competitors have been weakened by their own hand as well. Ford with a series of bad introductions, and major recalls primarily due to excess penny pinching, and Chrysler because Daimler Benz sucked it dry of cash & product till it absolutely had to spend money on it.
Bleeding core engineering skills is expensive, but the costs hit on the back end, and that isn't obvious for the first 10 years or so...
Originally posted by guionM
What GM is doing is pretty devious, but at least you can write it off to competition.
What GM is doing is pretty devious, but at least you can write it off to competition.
Crush the competition by making them play your game.
And overlooked, but critical aspect of this success was the LS1 engine family. It allowed GM to build simpler, lighter, less expensive motors that managed to out-power the offerings from other competitors in their core market - trucks.
The "Mod motors" were a Ford disaster of epic proportions from a business standpoint. Yes, Lightnings and Cobras are fast, but throwing bushels of money out the door on lower-end truck motors to be percieved as high tech was an unmitigated disaster, and continues to be one.
Originally posted by guionM
What Daimler did to Chrysler (it's own division) under false pretenses is downright horrendous.
What Daimler did to Chrysler (it's own division) under false pretenses is downright horrendous.
Chrysler's only hope is Kerkorian.
The best thing Kerkorian could do now is push a sale of Jeep to GM.
DaimlerChrysler is spinning around the rim right now, one flush and it's all over.
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Joined: Jun 2002
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Originally posted by Caps94ZODG
where would Viper go??
where would Viper go??
Where it is headed anyway.... yet another victim of Corvette.
300ZX...
Supra...
RX-7...
Porsche 944...
NSX... TBA
Viper... TBA
Ford GT... TBA
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 269
From: Metairie La.
Originally posted by PacerX
Watch BMW in the next 10 years, because my humble prediction is that they or Ford are put in the hurt locker next.
Eaton and Lutz should have known this was going to happen, I think they did.
The best thing Kerkorian could do now is push a sale of Jeep to GM.
DaimlerChrysler is spinning around the rim right now, one flush and it's all over.
Watch BMW in the next 10 years, because my humble prediction is that they or Ford are put in the hurt locker next.
Eaton and Lutz should have known this was going to happen, I think they did.
The best thing Kerkorian could do now is push a sale of Jeep to GM.
DaimlerChrysler is spinning around the rim right now, one flush and it's all over.
Wasn't Lutz at chrysler when the merger talk began
What in the heck is GM going to do with JEEP, they already have too many trucks as it is. I believe within the next 10-15 years Ford is going to be bought out. The chrysler part of daimlerchrysler is already dead.
GM needs to be careful, they're not out of the woods yet.
Last edited by Jackass; Sep 30, 2003 at 02:52 PM.
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From: The Golden State
I can see Ford ending up in a "Hurt Locker" if they screw up anymore introductions or have another major safety recall, but BMW? I know their design direction is turning pretty ugly (pun intended), but I'm under the impression they still are pretty solvent. 
As far as Lutz, he was at Chrysler when the talks began, but he had the sense to bail before anything was finalized. Eaton is the shady one here. He had a pretty sweet package, and nothing bad happened till he retired, then all hell broke loose. Seemed every executive and employee at headquarters worth his beans either left, retired, or was forced out over the next couple years, draining the people who most likely would be able to bring Chrysler back. Nesbitt came to GM design from Chrysler.
GM definately isn't out of the woods yet, but they are at least on the right track as far as cars and quality. Ford seems poised to bring out alot of new if conservative models that on the surface seem to be solid if not dramatic.
But then again, Chrysler was bought out when it was in the best condition, making the most money, with the biggest cash reserves it ever had in it's history. Go figure.
As far as Lutz, he was at Chrysler when the talks began, but he had the sense to bail before anything was finalized. Eaton is the shady one here. He had a pretty sweet package, and nothing bad happened till he retired, then all hell broke loose. Seemed every executive and employee at headquarters worth his beans either left, retired, or was forced out over the next couple years, draining the people who most likely would be able to bring Chrysler back. Nesbitt came to GM design from Chrysler.
GM definately isn't out of the woods yet, but they are at least on the right track as far as cars and quality. Ford seems poised to bring out alot of new if conservative models that on the surface seem to be solid if not dramatic.
But then again, Chrysler was bought out when it was in the best condition, making the most money, with the biggest cash reserves it ever had in it's history. Go figure.
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,979
K....
Why is BMW going in the hurt locker...
1) Mass. They don't have it. They are too small to compete against a leviathan like GM if GM gets it's act together. IF (it's a big if...) the fickle car buyers who go after luxury and near-luxury cars decide Cadillac is all we think it is and is going to be, they'll desert in droves ESPECIALLY if GM can out-perform them on a cost basis - which they can.
2) German production. Bad idea. German production costs are radically above even what we pay in the US.
3) Currency. The dollar is weak vs. the Euro, that will continue. It eats into profits at a terrific rate.
4) Reserve cash for new programs. All it takes is one big screwup and they're tapped.
5) Under-performing acquisitions, or acquisitions that don't have enough market impact. Range Rover. Rolls Royce. Mini.
Big names next down the list?
Honda - great name, no mass.
Nissan/Renault
Ford
Eventually, I think the industry shakes down to:
GM
Toyota
VW
With bit players in certain segments.
Why is BMW going in the hurt locker...
1) Mass. They don't have it. They are too small to compete against a leviathan like GM if GM gets it's act together. IF (it's a big if...) the fickle car buyers who go after luxury and near-luxury cars decide Cadillac is all we think it is and is going to be, they'll desert in droves ESPECIALLY if GM can out-perform them on a cost basis - which they can.
2) German production. Bad idea. German production costs are radically above even what we pay in the US.
3) Currency. The dollar is weak vs. the Euro, that will continue. It eats into profits at a terrific rate.
4) Reserve cash for new programs. All it takes is one big screwup and they're tapped.
5) Under-performing acquisitions, or acquisitions that don't have enough market impact. Range Rover. Rolls Royce. Mini.
Big names next down the list?
Honda - great name, no mass.
Nissan/Renault
Ford
Eventually, I think the industry shakes down to:
GM
Toyota
VW
With bit players in certain segments.
Last edited by PacerX; Sep 30, 2003 at 03:44 PM.
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From: five-one-oh/nine-oh-nine
Originally posted by guionM
But then again, Chrysler was bought out when it was in the best condition, making the most money, with the biggest cash reserves it ever had in it's history. Go figure.
But then again, Chrysler was bought out when it was in the best condition, making the most money, with the biggest cash reserves it ever had in it's history. Go figure.
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Posts: 293
From: Hou,TX
Let's not write off Chrysler just yet. DC is putting some money and inspiration into it with the PVO group and all of it's SRT models.
The Crossfire is a failure. 215hp for $35K? Sorry not in my book.
And then there's the 300C Hemi. Still question mark as to content, price and quality. We'll know if DC really gives a **** about Chrysler with how this one pans out. It really is the test for DC. If the 300C is nothing special, then close the doors and sell off Dodge and Jeep to the highest bidder, because the Chrysler dealers won't have a damn thing worth stopping to look at much less buy.
Jeep is a sad story. The Grand Cherokee was the premier mid size SUV for most of the 90s. Problem is the 90s ended 4 years ago. The M80 would have been the perfect replacement for the Cherokee, an aged design from what 1985? Are those still being made?
The Crossfire is a failure. 215hp for $35K? Sorry not in my book.
And then there's the 300C Hemi. Still question mark as to content, price and quality. We'll know if DC really gives a **** about Chrysler with how this one pans out. It really is the test for DC. If the 300C is nothing special, then close the doors and sell off Dodge and Jeep to the highest bidder, because the Chrysler dealers won't have a damn thing worth stopping to look at much less buy.
Jeep is a sad story. The Grand Cherokee was the premier mid size SUV for most of the 90s. Problem is the 90s ended 4 years ago. The M80 would have been the perfect replacement for the Cherokee, an aged design from what 1985? Are those still being made?