GM complained about losing money on the Impala, yet they canceled a bunch of profitable Pontiacs? I don't see it.

 

Pontiac will suffer until the end of this decade, maybe longer.

It is just how it looks to be. Alpha is not going to get pushed ahead, and the current cars either need a big mid-cycle update, or they will stay exactly how they are to the bitter end.

 

On a lighter note....

I saw 5 G6 convertibles out and about today.

 

I see a whole bunch of G6s around. Don't have rental stickers on them either My youngest sister just got one too.

At any rate, I think they have made some poor decisions lately. The G5 should have only been equiped with the SC Ecotec, IMO. Pontiac is supposed to be the performance brand, and yet they are only half-heartedly following this philosophy. I honestly don't know what is so difficult. They need to take a better look at the way Mazda and to a lesser extent VW and Nissan market their products.

What makes Mazda as a brand so special? Apparently they put a little sportscar in all of their product Pontiac needs to take existing platforms, go a little wilder on the styling, and make no compromises when it comes to suspension tuning and drivetrain choices. I don't mean that the Solstice needs an LS7. But if the motor is the base in the corresponding Chevy it should not be allowed in the Pontiac showroom. At the bare minimum if you have to share a 4 cylinder, it should get some special Pontiac upgrades. Like "Ram Air" (even if it does little), or slightly more aggressive exhaust. They absolutely should not share suspensions with the Chevies. At the very least they should get bigger swaybars and better shocks. Projector headlamps and available HIDs on all the cars. Bigger wheel/tire combos. Etc, etc.

 

Dear God, please make someone at GM who has some decision authority listen to this thread and what Guy just said......

PLEASE!!

Amen


The thought of a new Bonneville based on the full-size Holden that is LSx powered.... I think I just wet myself.....

 

I am not sure about small, 4 cylinder RWD cars? I mean how many of them are sold now? It's easy to say "That's a cool idea", but who would really buy one? I prefer my RWD cars with a big V8 in the front...not a 4 cylinder. I supect that many people here would feel the same way. Sounds to me like replacing the G6 line with a new platform that will sell less cars, and make less money.


As for competing with the tuner crowd...I wonder how many WRX's and Evo's are sold. I am willing to bet it is a very small number relative to the number of cheap base Imprezza's and Lancers.

To be successful, it just needs to do what it did in the past better. Pontiac's sales are in the ****ter because the cool product it had was allowed to whither and die, and then was replaced with boring appliance cars. People did not stop buying Pontiac because they wanted to. They stopped buying Pontiac because GM took the product they liked away, and replaced it with non competive, smaller volume cars.

Most important to me is that Pontiac Bring back the racetrack names(!) Alphanumeric names do not envoke emotions in people...they are cold and forgettable. Pontiac is not sold much overseas, so what's the point. It takes ***** to name your cars after racetracks, and it adds subliminal credibility.

Next, make Pontiac's that look the part. Design aggressive, and emotional cars that scare people who don't know better off the road. Pontiac's don't have to be the fastest cars on the road, but they have "look" like the fastest. Plenty of young people bought Grand Am's because they looked awesome and were sensible, despite the fact that there was better competition. The G6 on the otherhand is an almost good car with no road presence. I could see 100 G6's a day and not notice because they look like everything else on the road. On the otherhand, there is a FOM Grand Am GT that runs around here with the upgraded Ram Air hood, and I swear I crane my neck every time I see that car. If your not gonna build the best, most sensible car in it's class...why not design the best looking?


Cars that people care about, and look fast to those who do not no better.

 

Not an easy comparison to make because most that are made are luxury models, but MB C-class, BMW 1,3 series (included b/c the base I6 is low on power), I will also include the Imprezza in that b/c it is AWD and has sport intentions even in base form. If we throw in 6 cylinders we add G35 & CTS. But who is to say that this isn't the next segment to take off?

GM needs to take risks to gain new markets, right?
I would rather have a lightweight 4/6 clinder RWD sports sedan (G35) than a 350+hp V8 RWD large sedan (G8). It just would suit my needs better. I would venture to guess that a lot of new college grads and urban professionals would also be turned on by a lower cost high content BMW alternative, if styled right!

I see many more WRXs than Imprezzas. Evo's and STIs can be put into the ultra low percentage category though. But they do bring credit to the name.

Smaller volume, higher profit is better than higher volume, lower profit right? Better return on investment. If the investment costs of this chassis are spread b/t 2-3 Pontiacs, 1-2 Holdens/Opels, and 1 Caddy I think it is spread out enough to be profitable (keep in mind that Buick will likely get a rebadged Holden in China as well).

Yeah Alphanumerics suck, I think we all agree on that.

QFTMFT!

 

It's all about the G6 guys, it's all about the G6. And it's gonna be all about the G6 for at least another half decade - probably more.

Yes we like the low volume Solstice, and yes, we'll like the upcoming, slightly higher volume G8. But it's the G6 that'll carry the water for Pontiac.

And between the sedan, coupe and hardtop convertible...I think Pontiac has plenty of raw material to work with, (not to replicate Guy's and myself similar discussion on AutomoChatter, but we ARE repeating ourselves ).

These three versions of the G6 are selling at similar volume to Ford's Mustang. If they were sweetened, I think they'd do better.

The G6 GXP for example was a wasted effort and a lost opportunity. Pity.

 

^ I agree -- fix the G6 and everything is better. Seeing the Aura and the new Malibu this should be easily within GM's reach.

 

The G6 is still miles ahead of the Grand Am for comfort and performance. It does need a more in your face appearance, but not the GXP.

The GXP as it is, is nothing but a rebadged, body kitted GTP. There is no difference, and Pontiac is once again throwing away a badge that is a part of their more recent heritage.

My understanding is that the GTP was originally supposed to have a body kit in stock form, but that it got delayed. The GXP body kit would be amazing for the car, IF they didn't have that huge bucktooth grille on the front of it.

The G5 should have a GTP or GXP with the 2.0l SC engine.

 

Sorry guys...I may be wrong about this...but I just do not see a small RWD 4 cylinder sedan selling well here. Now when you say small RWD, I think smaller than G35, and 3 Series...since they strike me as almost the size of the new Camaro (at least in my mind). I think of almost a 1 series beemer. It will cost more than a similar FWD to build (WRD always costs more), and have less space. Also, call me crazy, but at less than 225HP, I could give a rats *** if it was RWD, or FWD....it's a yawner no matter what.

I would be interested in a tastefully done G6 GXP with with a Turbo and AWD. There needs to be an American automaker that gets in this market at some point..

 

This I agree with. Releasing the G5 without a power adder and some distinctive suspension was a MAJOR mistake.

And why did the Saturn Vue get the powerful 240 HP V6, while the first Torrents only had 180?

I agree. I hate the whole G5/G6/G8 line of names. NO distinctiveness. No emotion or passion. Pontiac needs to think a little, actually create some cool names, or they could dig up and bring back some of their cool names from the past like Tempest or Catalina.
Despite the relative success of the G6 today, I agree. The G6 is succeeding due to its quality, value and other factors... not due to its overly 'safe' styling. Pontiac needs to 'reach' a little and take some chances. They seem to still be gun-shy from the Aztek experience. Well if you don't take some chances, you don't end up with hits like the 97 GTP or the Solstice!

 

G6 sales appear to have gotten some legs - up 25% in 2006 over 2005. That's good for Pontiac. But really, I think Pontiac needs a "halo" version for the family of G6 vehicles. Something along the lines of Opel's GTC concept, (it's essentially a G6 under the skin), would be good.

 

That's a Honda 3.5 liter V6 in the Vue. GM bought those from Honda to have a competitive DOHC 6 for import intenders until they could get their own online. The 2008 Vue does use the GM 3.5 and 3.6.

It's funny that Formula79 mentioned Pontiac losing their way when they lost their cladding as I was just thinking about this the other day. I saw one of the later Grand Ams with the Alero side panels and I thought to myself "You know, Pontiac was doing better WITH the cladding." Yes, all the car mags ragged on it, but a lot of people really liked it. I think it made Pontiac stand out. Of course the car mags were still ragging on Pontiac and "all" of their cars having ridiculous cladding even when the GP hadn't had any for YEARS.

 

Heh, Pontiac was doing better when they had and aggresively styled, high spoilered, high horsepower aspirational coupe/convertible. Do we really expect The bad-assed maverick division to do al that well after killing its primary source of that reputation? Face it guys, the Firebird meant more to Pontiac than the Camaro did to Chevrolet (speaking of the halo effect, don't get your panties in a bunch-Chevy still has Corvette) Just like "every Chevrolet has a little bit of Corvette in it", every Pontiac had a little bit of Firebird in it. Now what have they got?