Doug Harden - you are using GM's old way of thinking, not the new "make it or break it" way of thinking, which we have yet to see but will soon. The Solstice is the #1 example of Mr. Lutz work. No ifs, ands or buts about it.

Zeta was Mr. Lutz baby. Do you really think he would let something as easy, obvious, and well thought-out as this slip under his nose considering the car nut that he is? I highly doubt it. Lutz is a RWD, performance oriented car guy through and through. This model outlines what should be hitting GM's design center right now.

 

The live axle and struts would save about 1000 bucks per car by my estimates compared to the sigma IRS. At least. Yes there would need to be some structural modification to sigma, especially in the rear. But it is not as critical to FMVSS. The biggest development issue would be the fuel tank. Packaging and design most likely would have to change from sigma to accomodate the live axle. An issue but not a show stopper.

To all that want an IRS, don't want the car built in Mexico, want more this and that, don't want struts. GM already told you tough. Zeta is cancelled and is cost prohibitive. Do you want a Camaro or not? You have to sell the V6's in order to build the business case for the V8.

PS I think BMW uses struts up front!

 

Yes but only on its relatively "entry level" 3 series. I'm sure they've put a lot more money into refining their strut setup than a Camaro would get from GM. I just don't want to backwards in terms of SLA to strut here, I'm on board with everything else.

 

Is that including engineering and development costs or just hard parts costs? In GM's current cash crunch, where's that money supposed to come from?

I keep hearing the word "cancelled".......but I also hear that it's only cancelled here in the US.......but then I read Scott say this on another forum.....

It sounds like Guy's "period of mis & dis-information" is in full swing......

 

And the 3-Series is the rag mags best pick all the time. Hell half the people in the real world would not know the difference between a transmission and an emission. Proper development will sort out the suspension tuning. This is about execution, not trying to appease the rag mags with unnecessary cost and buzz words. If it works who cares. How does this board respond when any of the idiotic rag mags call the OHV Vette motor yester-tech because it is push rod? If it works for the application does it really matter?

 

I know this is like 5 pages ago, but I read this and HIGHLY disagree.

Most people dont buy Camaros. Most people buy Camry, Accords, and Impala's. Most people dont care, right.
But Camaro owners are "most people". Camaro people V6 to V8, are enthusiast-minded. Ask a Camry owner if they have a V6 or a 4cyl, and most will look at you as if there was such a choice(trust me, I see it daily).
As a Camaro owner what they have, and I bet that not only will you get the engine but a list of other things. Where its built and what its built with are MAJOR parts of the equation.

It DOES need to be very tight. People, especialy enthuisats, like to feel that they are special. How would you feel if you went into car A that costs 25k. It felt right, but interior wasnt put together right, and poor fitment and lack of cool features. Go over to car B that stickers for 26k, but has fantastic fit ment, and more options even for an additional 1k in price. Which would you buy? GM needs to get all of it right. Not just engine, but everything from seats, to shifter, to how the steering wheel feels in your hands and the layout of the guages. Sweat the details, and GM is starting to pick up on that big time.
If I could get a Camaro that was fitted together as well as a GTO or CTS, that felt right, and outperformed the Mustang not just in a few, but ALL catagories, and for an additional 1-3k...I think that I could justify the extra cash, and I know im not alone.
Out of the 100k-150k Camaro's sold, how many do you actualy think will go into drag racing? How many of the 200k Mustangs will ever see major track duty? Its nice to please the enthuiasts, but you also have to please the daily driver guy or gal. You have to please the guy's wife with teh car, and not that its a rough, fuel hogging monster. Everything needs to be taken into consideration.

So to just slap some parts bin crap together, plop some 2nd rate seats in it, just to make some die hard Camaro fans happy...Ill pass. I dont want to sacrafice the Camaro name cause people want it NOW.
I would rather like to see a Sigma Camaro. Nice high belt line gives it that sinister look, wide stance, and suspension that is taken from the Nurburing tested CTS-V and STS-V, then THAT my friends is a Camaro.
Not some gathering of parts.

 

That is NOT a Camaro. That is a CTS-V or STS-V, cars that both sell for over $50,000. I wouldn't be concerned about interiors. As I said before, "2nd rate" GM seats (I think Evok originally said from the G6 - very nice) are perfect for a car like the Camaro. If you want a car that has everything - the gorgeous interior, power, sophisticated suspension - buy a GTO or CTS-V. They cost more for a reason. Camaros always provided awesome acceleration and great handling for a cheap price. It did this w/out an expensive setup. A new Camaro could do just the same, and would have an infinitely better interior to boot.

Reading some of these replies has depressed me a bit. Whatever GM does, a segment of the Camaro community is going to vocally bash this car. If they produce a polished, refined coupe some are going to say it isn't worth the money and moan about how GM forgot about the "essence" of the Camaro. If they build it inexpensive, people are going to bitch about interior peices and say that GM "cheaped out." And of course, most poeple (including myself) want it NOW.

 

Still waiting................tap tap tap..........

 

We all have our opinions.

I bet you dimes to dollars that the "average" 4th Gen Camaro owner couldn't tell you the city, province, or country that their car was built in. Most probably couldn't tell you the difference between a drum brake and a disc brake, or which one was on their car. As most of us know, the vast majority of Camaro owners don't read this Forum, and some of them are even women (perish the thought).

When did I say the car had to be built like crap? Let me look back at my post.....

....ok, disregarding that I screwed up the numbering, I said it can't be too expensive, needs to be fast, needs to look fast, needs a decent seating position, has to be well screwed together (not CTS-like, cause then the cost is CTS-like), and it has to look hot.

Please tell me which of those things you disagree with. Should it be expensive? Should it be slow? Should it look slow? Should it have a bad seating position? Should it be screwed together as well as a CTS - or perhaps worse than a [insert junk car here]? Should it look cold?

A rather small percentage of (mostly) the V8s drag race. An even smaller percentage go into autocross/road racing. More importantly (and likely to your point), how many will care that it does/does not have an IRS, so long as the ride/handling is good?

 

Everyone is looking at the Camaro from the eyes of the performance version. That is great and all, but Big Al made a damn good point. You need the base version to cater to the masses. This is what will keep the Camaro alive if it is to come back. The performance version needs to be well thought out for sure, but the overall car has to be able to attract many to be able to suport volume in sales.

The 4th gen Camaro was built for the enthuisats in mind, not the masses. The Camaro needs to do both well. Personally I think the low end versions is what will really show the Camaro's success. Cause when it comes down to it, the lower end version will keep the Camaro alive. If you build a car from a parts bin that is not up to par concerning the lower end models fit and finish wise and design, the performance version could be the best in class, but will not support the overal product.

 

If we assume that something like Evok's recipe is followed, then the door would be open for an AWD Camaro RS. There is your ticket to higher volume in a Camaro, and Camaro's ticket to a Car Of The Year award.

 

Agreed 100%

 

NO!

 

Looks like 1964 1/2 to 1967 all over again.

I like the idea.

 

So we're swaping an LS2 into a thirdgen?