First of all... man does not live by cubic inches alone. There were many a 1st gen Z-28's in their day that smoked big blocks at the drag strip. This is a fact.

Secondly, the Z-28's engine displacement was based on a SCCA rule of a maximum of 5.0L for Sedan Class A. Once GM got them to lift the production limit (1970) the Z-28 got the 350 LT-1 while still being required to meet the 5.0L limit in competition. (FWIW. Trans Am prepared Z-28's were actually closer to 305 cid.)

Z-28 has always been the top all-around Camaro, even though SS always had more displacement. (Although not neccessarily more HP.) SS was for straightline accelleration only.

However, for a 5th gen line-up... as I see it...

Camaro V6
Camaro SS 6.0L V8

... and then about 12-18 months down the road... a special edition race version (much like Z06) called Camaro Z28, with the LS7 on board.

 

I'm assuming you and everyone else out there saying LS7 understands its a pipe dream. GM's not going to pull the exclusivity of their $75,000 Supercar down by putting the LS7 in a Camaro. Its just not going to happen.

Expect the LS4 standard with 6.0L maybe optional on the SS and and then 6.0L standard on the Z28 with Z06 style suspension and braking upgrades.

 

this makes a fantastic business case in GM's current situation, and would probably sell a ton of cars.

the models/options i'd like to see are:

base = v6, live rear axle
Z/28 = 375hp 5.7L V8 with live rear axle
Z/28 RS = 375hp 5.7L with IRS
SS = 425hp 6.0L with live rear axle

 

I might be waaaaaaaaayyyy off base here, so correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't ford thinking of putting their much more exclusive gt engine into a special mustang ? If I'm right, why can't gm do the same ?

 

Do it right or don't do it at all.

If you want to bring a F5 into the same criticism ****storm of the previous generations than think cheap,cheap,cheap.

Only one reasonable option exists. Take a 05 stang GT as the bench mark and match it on price, performance, and style.

Rushing the GTO to market wasn't a problem b/c the car exceeded almost everything GM has had in NA. Rushing a camaro only means the mags have a field day saying GM rushed it and the stang killed it.

I like the ideas but i'm worried the execution of the deal might leave some problems.

 

I don't see that either fromt a price point issue. IMO, I'd like to see the Z28, if it will be a specialial performance model, have a lighter weight but just as powerful (or more powerful) engine for better weight distribution.

Performance is more than just hp and torque....

Just throwing it out there.

 

And the new Golf and Jetta
And Saturns
And Volvos
And Hondas
And Toyotas
And Grand Prixs, Luminas, Regals from the '90's (which if you weren't aware used a transverse leaf spring (ala 'Vette) in the first FWD generation).

I'm not married to it, but I'll be mighty dissapointed if there isn't IRS

 

In reference to the GTO price above....$34k is too much for a traditional "Z28" type of car. Not a big deal for a loaded (emphasis on loaded) SS or WS6, but too much for the mainstream V8 RWD Pony car - especially given that its direct competition can be had for $25k-$29k.

 

If that's the case, then they wouldn't be offering the LS7 in crate engine form...

... but THEY ARE!

So maybe if GM doesn't build a LS7 powered Camaro, somebody else WILL.

 

Yeah, like GMMG?

I think offering a crate motor and offering it in a car for sale with a full dealer warranty are two totally different things. Your average customer, even if he can afford it, isn't going to buy a crate motor and adapt to whatever car he has. I can gaurantee you very vew C6 Z06 buyers would be willing to buy a base C6 and an LS7 crate motor instead if the Z wasn't offered.

The LT5 was available as a crate motor for a brief time too but you never saw anything other than the Vette with it from the factory.

The LT4 and LS6 are both offered as crate motors but other than SLP's batch of LT4 cars neither motor made their way into Fbodies, so I fail to see the corollary there.

 

What about giving the Z28 the L92 or something.

 

I will gladly accept a solid rear axle……………The next time I am looking to buy a TRUCK OR OX CART. I will not purchase a new car, built in this decade, with a solid axle. Sorry isn’t going to happen.

Strut front suspension: This is an inferior design to what the 4th gen had.
Solid Rear axle: This is inferior to almost every other car on the planet

“Mustang has this configuration and it is doing well”……So what! This approach will be another case of GM taking a competitor’s vehicle that is already in production; spend 3 to 4 years to develop their own generic version; just to end up with a mediocre car that is almost as good as what the competion has been building for years.

I have seen members of this board criticize GM, multiple times, for this exact approach to vehicle development. Now suddenly this is OK for the next generation Camaro. I don’t think so!

GM has been trying this half baked, half azzed, parts bin, bargain basement, “close enough”, “almost good enough” approached to building cars for years. This my friends is why their market share and their reputation are in the crapper.

The only way GM is going to improve their situation is to start building world class vehicles, that are leaders in their target market segments, and that are superior to offerings from the competition. This proposal for a 5th gen. will absolutely not be world class, It will not lead its market segment and it will be lucky to be as good as the competition. Why even bother?

After the long wait that we have had to endure, I can’t believe how many people here are willing to accept this. I guess it goes to show you. If someone gets hungry enough, they will eat anything that’s put in front of their face.

Not me. There are other reausturants out there, and I am no longer settling for “Fast Food”.

 

The L92 will probably be introduced into whatever GM wants as top dog. I see an SS/Z28 battle happening. I would just like to point out that of the two models, which one was the race model, and which one followed the "muscle car" rule of big engine+small car?
Last time I checked, the SS didnt win any Trans Am races. There wasnt an IROC SS.
But I will agree that it would look funky at having Cobalt SS, Malibu SS, Trailblazer SS, Silvy SS, SSR, Impy SS, Monte SS, and possible Nox SS and Aveo SS....and then having a Z06 and Z28.
Doesnt flow, but eh oh well.
I say have teh Z28 with teh big brakes and Recaro seats, while the SS gets leather and DVD nav. Price them the same, same engine, just make them the "Odd Couple".

 

It's close, but different. No aluminum block, no dry-sump oiling system, less boost/different, etc... They cut costs somehow. But the end result is a potent 450-500hp/tq engine.

I don't know how much the Ls7 costs, but i'm sure the GT500's blown 5.4 with twin screw blower isn't cheap either, and Ford managed to get it into a 40k car. GM probably can get an Ls7 type engine with 427ci, but without the fancy/expensive stuff the ls7 has like titanum rods/valves, dry sump, etc... into a Camaro and have it rated at 450hp without really breaking the bank. But they most likely won't want to. Not when even the $50k CTS-V will be regulated to Ls2 come 2006. So when the CTS-V doesn't even get the Ls7, you know there's no way in hell a camaro will.

 

I may give you enthusists , but in a very generic way . Most Camaro and mustang buyers are enthusist in the fact they want to drive something with personality , it has to be sporty and affordable and it has to look COOL

I would bet my lifes savings that more than 3/4's of mustang and camaro/firebird owners , if asked if they wanted IRS ....would not know how to answer . And the same people , I would go farther to say , probably could not tell the difference in the manners of the 2 rear ends if they drove them back to back the way most people normally drive . And then 1/2 the people that said they wanted IRS probably just say so because motor trend and car and driver do .