SSbaby

If some of you guys honestly believe a Camaro should be on par with Corvette... my basic question is why have two 'Corvettes' in the stable? If you want Corvette performance, buy the 'Vette. Simple. God knows GM could do with the extra sales.

The market has changed drastically from the era of the 3rd and 4th Gens. I don't think there'd be many sales of G3 Camaro type cars today as in the past. People have moved on...

91_z28_4me

I think the 3rd gens and the 5th gens aren't all that much alike. Everyone hear me out for a second before you dismiss the comment.

The 3rd gen was a modified compact chassis (Vega/Monza) that was built to be a purpose built pony car. The 5th gen is on a modified large/sophisticated sedan chassis that has the inherent capability to be everything from a pickup (Ute) to coupe. The 3rd gen was purpose built (the only vehicle on the chassis/line) to be a pony car while the 5th gen was an offshoot that was adapted to be a pony car.

The two vehicles started on opposite ends of the spectrum and attempted to meet in the middle, perhaps neither one strikes the perfect balance of what a pony car should be and perhaps people on both sides will see what they believe to be their definition of Camaro as the correct one.

Just making an observation.

Z28Wilson

I haven't seen any such suggestions.

SSbaby

I have seen many implicit suggestions. If you guys are suggesting the Camaro should emulate some of the 3G's handling abilities (i.e. one of the best handling car cars in the world ) then it must also compete against Porsche, Ferrari etc... which is basically Corvette territory. Am I wrong?

I still can't understand some of the notions out there. Not happy with Camaro (which has sedan based underpinnings)? Buy the Vette (it is a GM product after all). Light weight, sports performance with a smallblock V8... that not even Mustang could ever hope to match.

SSbaby

You make a perfect observation.

On that basis, I cannot see how the 5G could possibly be something it clearly is not designed for.

And I have read many "observations" about the 3G's extremely poor chassis rigidity, which is not only unacceptable on a performance car today, it would almost certainly fail any safety mandates, if built in the same manner.

Times have changed and the bar is much higher today. I don't think a $30-40K Camaro today would have any chance of competing with a Porsche, even if GM started with a clean sheet architecture.

91_z28_4me

So I guess a better question is should the Camaro be priced at $30-40k? Or should it be priced in the low to mid $20s? Should the Camaro be occupying the slot currently being served by the Cobalt SS?

I don't have the energy to do the research/math right now but comparing the price of the 2nd and 3rd gen Camaros to the mainstream Chevy models (Impala/Caprice-Malibu/Impala) is it higher or lower priced than it used to be?

SSbaby

As a concept, Camaro is fine the way it is. Sales are proof that GM has this car right on the mark.

Z284ever

Interesting observation. I haven't read Michael Lamm's book in afew years, but if I remember correctly GM had originally wanted to base the 3rd gen on the newly downsized A-body. It didn't take them long to realize that this approach wasn't ideal for Camaro.

The end result was as you said - a purpose built architecture. Sure, they used alot of off the shelf components and systems to get there, ie., look at the back half of a 3rd/4th gen and the back half of a Vega/Monza.

They weren't perfect, that's for sure. They rattled, had chassis flex (3rd gen 5th spring you know ) and took about a year and a half after intro before they achieved powertrain parity with Mustang. But man, they were a quantum leap forward from the cars they replaced. They were smaller, 400+ pounds lighter, had drop dead gorgeous good looks, ground breaking interior design, and finally for an American car - world class chassis dynamics.

Getting back to Branden's original point - they handled exponentially better than a Celebrity Eurosport, or any other "good sport's sedan" - as a Camaro should.

SSbaby

That statement would imply the 1st and 5th Gens only. FWIW, I agree, completely.

Z284ever

Personally, I don't see Camaro's price point going down. Average transaction price has got to be well over $30K now, and I can only imagine the 6th gen continuing that trend.


It makes me think that Chevy will soon need a sporty coupe in the $18-$25K range to slot below the Camaro. The Cobalt SS is cool and I love it, but it doesn't really sell in relevant numbers. Something very stylish based on Gamma or Delta is what I have in mind. Sort of a spiritual successor to Beretta or even Grand Am.

Here's a chop based on the Cruze done by 'Monaro SS' at GMI. I think it looks great!

teal98

I've seen Genesis Coupes on sale in the low 20s -- around $22K, IIRC. I would think those cars would be very popular among the group that can't afford $30K plus. But I don't know how well they're selling.

Between the Coupe and a Cobalt SS, I'd take the Coupe, due to RWD. But I think there's room for improvement on the Coupe that should not cost much money -- the Koreans are still working on handling.

formula79

Wasn't the 3rd gen relataivly expensive..especially on the high end? Even the 4th gen had a a lot of cars sold in the mid $30's. I think the Camaro's current V8 price is right..though V6 needs to come down.

Back to the handling...several magazine reviews mentioned the G8 GXP being about as close to a BMW as any of the big 3 ever have. I about a year ago..someone I know from GM who remains nameless asked me if I had driven the new Camaro. I told them know since I had not at that time. I did say that I had a G8 GXP, and they are basically the same, so I had no hurry. Their response was "There is a lot different...go drive one."..kind of dismissive of the G8.

Now that I have driven both, I am still hard pressed to find many differences asside from the ergonomic concessions to the styling. In terms of driving the cars are so similar, which is amazing considering almost no pt#'s are common between the two.

Be I digress. My feeling is..the physical size of the Camaor prevent's many from even giving it fair consideration.

Z284ever

I generally agree. The Camaro and G8 have very similar driving experiences. Except the G8 has more direct steering feel, better visibility and you can fit a family of 5 in it. So to put it another way, the Camaro drives like a G8 sedan except, it gives up steering feel, visibility and 5 passenger seating.

I'd like more from Camaro....

poSSum

As it stands now the 5th gen is selling well so the discussion is academic. Hopefully GM will be addressing shortcomings in handling and options in upcoming models to continue to drive demand.

Z284ever

Good point. I wonder if Camaro had other attributes, if it would sell better, worse or the same.